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Apple's Personal VISTA

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Sascha Engel
Apple's Personal VISTA
on Jun 22, 2011 at 11:51:12 am

What in god's name was going on in Apple's Head???
This is iMovie on Steroids in so many ways! AVID will chear for that one.
What is going on here? No tape ingestion! No OMF nor XML Export.
Not compatible with FCP 6 & 7 , but with iMovie.
No more COLOR???????
Are you serious?
It looks like Microsoft inserted some spies into Apple and they developed this version to do maximum harm to Apple.
This is not a professional application yet.
And somehow i doubt it ever will be. Apple has to react fast, like Microsoft did, when they had to deal with their Nemesis VISTA, or they will lose many people to AVID & Vegas!

A sad day for all professional FCP users!


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Daniel Garcia
Re: Apple's Personal VISTA
on Jun 22, 2011 at 12:39:48 pm

Hi Sascha, LOL that was exactly how I was describing this new software to a friend. The editing equivalent to Vista. I think this is going to be a massive flop in the professional world and I can see a lot of heads starting to look elsewhere including myself.

Good for Apple, they have created the first editing tool designed for Youtube and Vimeo, no doubt there is a market, but please, do not try to fool the rest of us.

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Tom Brooks
Re: Apple's Personal VISTA
on Jun 22, 2011 at 12:41:14 pm

Lot of Avid people saying I told you so. Never should have gone with Apple to begin with. I disagree. We went with FC because it was new in many ways. This is more new. We were due for a change.

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Andrew Wilson
Re: Apple's Personal VISTA
on Jun 22, 2011 at 12:55:53 pm

When final cut was new it was not new in many ways. I was a Media Composer editor for many years before Final Cut and what apple did was bring an AVID interface and sensibility to the apple platform for under $1000 at a time when AVID seemed to be abandoning the apple platform and was charging much more.

I know there has been a lot of talk about apple abandoning the pro market but look at cameras that apple has qualified for FCPX.... FLIP, GoPRO, Contour!??

Only 6 cameras from Sony? 5 from Canon and 9 from Panasonic?


Andrew Wilson
WestView Digital Video & Design

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Gabe Thorburn
Re: Apple's Personal VISTA
on Jun 22, 2011 at 7:46:26 pm

[Andrew Wilson] "apple has qualified for FCPX.... FLIP, GoPRO, Contour!??"

Actually these cameras are used all the time on reality tv shows and should be supported.

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Chris Kenny
Re: Apple's Personal VISTA
on Jun 22, 2011 at 2:33:34 pm

[Tom Brooks] "Lot of Avid people saying I told you so. Never should have gone with Apple to begin with. I disagree. We went with FC because it was new in many ways. This is more new. We were due for a change."

Yeah, all the Avid folks crowing over this should probably cut it out. First off, it's pretty obnoxious behavior. More more to the point, though, FCP X is about five key features away from being right in the mix with complex multi-application workflows, and there are promising indications about three of them already. Meanwhile, in terms of core technology and user interface, it's miles ahead of Media Composer, and it's 1/8 of the price. I hope Avid itself isn't as silly as some of its fans; they need to be taking this very seriously.

Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.

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Hector berrebi
Re: Apple's Personal VISTA
on Jun 22, 2011 at 12:52:05 pm

[Sascha Engel] "A sad day for all professional FCP users!"

:) you're quick

but remember what i told you on that same talk

if it is apple's VISTA, and they will acknowledge it, like Microsoft did at the time. then by next NAB we will see solutions to many things that bug us in this release. and peace will reign again

the scary scenario is that they don't care, or worst... believe there is nothing wrong with this version

we must feedback, and feedback a lot

maybe some online petition page?
this would be the perfect timing for it


Hector Berrebi
prePost Consulting

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Sascha Engel
Re: Apple's Personal VISTA
on Jun 22, 2011 at 12:56:31 pm

I hope you are right, Hector, cause I fear, that - seeing the price of the new software - they really want to push into the semi-pro market of mini freelancers and wannabes, that are creating web & YT & VIMEO content - and in this case - they wouldn't wanna fix it - in this case, they did not do a mistake, but made exactly the right product...just not for us!
Yes, I think a petition would be a brilliant idea!!!
When was actually the official worl wide release date?


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Sascha Engel
Re: Apple's Personal VISTA
on Jun 22, 2011 at 12:53:06 pm

Well, don't get me wrong I am up & open for changes, since I always was an autodidact, I don't mind learning a new interface. And I do think a lot things are amazing in this new X version: Magnetic Timeline, Media Management, no render time and so on.
But simple things like OMF, XML opening FCP 7 docs, just to name a view, are basic essential ingredients of a pro workflow.

I have to agree with Daniel: Those Missing features make it a Prosumer version orientated on the YouTube Vimeo publishing semi-professional market. That is certainly a gap, they are smart to push into, but then release that parallel and not instead the Professional NLE Software , which FCP was standing for.

Without those features, FCPX is nothing but iMovie on Steroids.
And I was ALWAYS loyal to FCP over many years, but if they are not fixing all those problems, I will switch to AVID, and I swear I never thought I would ever consider this in my life!!!!!

AND: What is with colou??????? They killed it!
Such a genious application - COLOUR was a masterpiece of software.

What a failure!

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Rafael Amador
Re: Apple's Personal VISTA
on Jun 22, 2011 at 1:24:27 pm

I'm mourning with you Sascha.
- Less In put options
- Les customizable than ever: Fix project sizes THIS IS A SHIT VIDEO IS NOT just BROADCAST VIDEO ANY MORE, I don't wan't to get stuck with few sizes: I want to edit and export at the size I want.
- Crap Export option.s Where do you set the specs for the H264 on export?
- Where is the 10b RGB Rendering? Not even 8b RGB?
- The filter are an insult: have you see the "Broadcast Safe" Filter"?
What crap is that?
- Where are the fundamental video filters: Shift-fields, deinterlacing, de-flickers.
- How can I see and change project properties?
- Where can i see the footage properties and change them?
- How do I fix a wrong field order?

I don't give a damm about interface, media managing, metada and all that crap.I'm editing without that for years, but i've never worked in a system where you have control over nothing.
Carps, I can work with FCS3 for another 20 years.
PS: What is your experience with AVID, PP or Edius?

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Sascha Engel
Re: Apple's Personal VISTA
on Jun 22, 2011 at 2:07:32 pm

Hi Raphael, good to hear from you again!
It's been a while. Missed ya man. When you through a word like "Shit" on the COW, it means you are really pissed ;-)
Well my experience with PP is long ago, it's the first NLE I started with - it was version one.
Did a job a while ago on a newer version, seemed stable, user friendly and far more Pro than FCP X.
For music video editing VEGAS is genious: You can set the timeline to ms which is far more precies than frames. AVID, I must admit I was always scared off - the user interface and the whole workflow doesn't seem to go with the way my brain works.
But before I switch to this f....g &%$&* piece of s..t software - yes, I would go for AVID.
Or: I simply stick with my last FCP version - I am very happy with that.

Why did they do this?
I really cannot understand, how a big company like Apple can make such a fatal decision in Software development???????

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Rafael Amador
Re: Apple's Personal VISTA
on Jun 22, 2011 at 11:42:22 pm

[Sascha Engel] "Why did they do this?
I really cannot understand, how a big company like Apple can make such a fatal decision in Software development???????"

Hi Sascha, sorry for my bad words and moods.
I can't talk much. Still in shock.
We are waiting for "The new FC" since a few years ago.
I have FC.7 and I can keep working with him for the next few years.
I could have have waited 6 more months or even one year, for the new FC.
But this have been too much.

is not about what they've done with the application (is their property and they can burn it if they want), but how they have treated their customers.
I don't gonna work in parallel with two application till FCX grow up. I'm already 53 and for when FCX will be an option, I will have lost all my interest in learn it.

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Sascha Engel
Re: Apple's Personal VISTA
on Jun 23, 2011 at 12:04:56 am


No need to say sorry, I was just joking. Because the COW wanted to bann me on e for cursing.
I totally understand you- I was cursing myself and also in shock: 5 days ago my father in law died, and we are sitting Shiv'a and now FCP dies. I'm so mad. I started out on PP and then stepped over to FCP and been faithful ever since. I feel really sad about how apple treats his long term pro customers. Such a slap in the face. And to dare to call this FCP just beats it all: how rude! Do they think we are morons????? It's like selling a Porsche with a Trabant engine. You think I will not notice? This is such a cheat. It even beats the killing of Shake. No words!

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Reg Wrench
Re: Apple's Personal VISTA
on Jun 22, 2011 at 1:13:41 pm

I totally agree. I'd like to know how long / whether fcp7 will be supported. There are still some multiclip bugs in there ( namely errors with dissolves in sequence and edls) which need fixing). With no multiclip editing or full quality broadcast monitoring anymore it looks like it's back to avid for a lot of users. Fcp X is not a professional piece of software anymore, and that is a decision made by the users not the manufacturers.
Hopefully Apple will listen to it's professional user base and bring back the features that let us editors work and interface with other professionals - sound mixers, colorists, broadcasters etc as we successfully do at present with fcp7. They denied the early rumor about it being more prosumer and yet that's exactly what they've done. I'll watch it with interest as I did with Fcp when it first came out, it will be awesome one day, but it's not yet.
A great disappointment for professional apple users ... we had fun though didn't we?! Thank god avid has kept developing on the professional route and listened to it's users!

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Benjamin Reichman
Re: Apple's Personal VISTA
on Jun 22, 2011 at 2:48:09 pm

I agree with and understand the frustration and anger in this thread. I'm stunned. I was on a shoot when FCP X was released yesterday, so I didn't go online, but today I feel like the COW is filled with the dazed survivors of a train crash... ;)

However, if this is really is Apple's Vista, there's some hope.

Remember that although Windows Vista was terrible, the low-level under-the-hood code, the real foundation of Windows, was revamped and remade in powerful ways. The problems were big, but they were largely with what was on TOP of that new, strong foundation.

Then with Windows 7, they fixed all the top layers and tweaked the under-the-hood code in a few simple ways, and the result was what appeared to be a massive overhaul--a truly great operating system. But it wasn't a big overhaul. It was simply Vista...finished.

So if--and this is a big IF--FCP X is like Vista, a great foundation with junk on top, then Apple can in the next year or two turn it into the equivalent of Windows 7.

Here's hoping! And in the mean time: oy.

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Jeremy Cole
Re: Apple's Personal VISTA
on Jun 22, 2011 at 3:12:05 pm

Apple has produced a consumer/prosumer level product. Just look at the feature set, the names they use to describe processes, the lack of a customizable interface, the devices they feature in the menus, the lack of a way to work with audio studios or colorists, the inability to import existing FCP7 programs. This has not been designed as an upgrade to FCP7. There is no upgrade path. All of that should tell you that this is not a product for professionals. Period. It is a new product with some neat features that appears to have been designed by the iMovie team at Apple.

They made one mistake here, and that is to try and piggyback on the FCP name. They should have called it something different so there would be no confusion. It is not a successor to Final Cut Pro 7. There isn't one. This product may sell a lot of macs coming out in August, but, I am sure that they know that will lose the professional market and they probably don't care.


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Tim Wilson
Re: Apple's Personal VISTA
on Jun 22, 2011 at 4:16:33 pm

I think Benjamin is right on track: Vista was a strong foundation with garbage on top, which Windows 7 cleaned up. For all that I'm writing this on a MacBook Pro, and a hardcore Apple user since 1979 (yes), W7 is my favorite OS to date...although Lion is looking mighty fine, so we'll see. As much as I think it would have done Apple some good to wait until the fall to roll this out, as Signore Springsteen wrote, Someday we'll look back on this and it will all seem funny.

As for Avid guys piling on being obnoxious, they are a teeny tiny part of this. There aren't Avid trolls running around this forum - it's primarily people who have established themselves as FCP mainstays over a period of years. The fact is that Avid, Adobe, Microsoft, Sony, the commies, the aliens, and Elvis himself COMBINED could not possibly stir up the rage, resentment and Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt that Apple themselves have.

Apple has succeeded to the extent that right now, they are their only enemy. They are the only ones who can stop their own progress. Betting against any business that Apple is in for the long haul is for suckers....

...which isn't to say that this release isn't a disaster for you. Maybe it is. Apple has weathered more disasters than I can think of, but right now, System 7, OS X, 10.2, anything related to a processor change come to mind - disasters, every one of them. It all turned out fine. Vista really is the perfect example.

PS. A big, big reason why Vista was a disaster was because people tried to run (whether you like it or not) a modern OS on old machines. It hasn't happened as much for Apple because so many of its problems were caused by their own new machines, but whatever else you have planned for the future of FCPX or Lion, you better be saving your pennies now.

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Sascha Engel
Re: Apple's Personal VISTA
on Jun 22, 2011 at 5:14:58 pm

It's terrible, but I think you are totally right, Jeremy.


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