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Early tester James Tonkin on the new MacPro in actual use.

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Bill Davis
Early tester James Tonkin on the new MacPro in actual use.
on Dec 11, 2019 at 4:29:14 pm

http://www.fcp.co/final-cut-pro/articles/2232-first-impressions-of-the-new-...

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Herb Sevush
Re: Early tester James Tonkin on the new MacPro in actual use.
on Dec 11, 2019 at 5:25:41 pm

Oliver already posted this link in the "Mac Pro and XDR starts on Dec 10" thread. Nice article.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Oliver Peters
Re: Early tester James Tonkin on the new MacPro in actual use.
on Dec 12, 2019 at 4:55:12 pm

Also from Thomas Grove Carter.

https://www.relay.fm/mpu/514

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Rich Rubasch
Re: Early tester James Tonkin on the new MacPro in actual use.
on Dec 12, 2019 at 9:05:36 pm

I'm confused by the Radeon Vega II Duo...is the advantage there that it is a single slot card? I certainly want to reserve slots if that is the case.

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production, Post, Studio Sound Stage
Founder/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
http://www.tiltmedia.com


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Rich Rubasch
Re: Early tester James Tonkin on the new MacPro in actual use.
on Dec 12, 2019 at 9:13:44 pm

Oh, so many questions...the podcast was fine, but didn't answer a pile of questions. For example it's pretty well documented that the iMac Pro monitor is oversaturated...so I would never use it for final color. What about the new Apple monitor? Same problem? Is there an adjustment for saturation? Because the rest of the world is not looking at content on an Apple monitor.

He likes the iMac Pro monitor but doesn't say anything about saturation...and the iMacPros brightness is probably brighter than most people's monitors.

I was an old tape-op in the days when we watched scopes for color and our broadcast monitors were truly calibrated. Today it really is the wild west especially with HDR color thrown in and panels made from different manufacturers with very different color rendering.

I'm not sure what is real anymore.

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production, Post, Studio Sound Stage
Founder/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
http://www.tiltmedia.com


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Early tester James Tonkin on the new MacPro in actual use.
on Dec 12, 2019 at 9:26:19 pm

[Rich Rubasch] "What about the new Apple monitor? Same problem? Is there an adjustment for saturation? Because the rest of the world is not looking at content on an Apple monitor."

From the FCP.co article in Bill's post I get the idea that James Tonkin trusts the new Apple monitor as reference monitor.


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Bill Davis
Re: Early tester James Tonkin on the new MacPro in actual use.
on Dec 13, 2019 at 4:21:06 pm

I think the salient point is to ask what the “reference” actually IS any more?
It used to be so simple when your countries broadcast system HAD a specific technical standard.

But obviously, today the viewing landscape has dramatically changed with FAR more content consumed on personal devices than via broadcast feeds.

Decades ago in radio we used to use main studio speakers and cheap bridge monitors to be able to hear what something sounded like on both home audio systems AND on crappy single speaker car radios because THATS where more people heard the commercials and music we were creating,

Today, in addition to my computer monitor, my production desk has a decent consumer level TV, an older gen non-Retina iPad and an current gen iPhone and I check things like type legibility on all of them before I send the work out.

Same idea.

Notice how the work is likely to look on the devices it’s most likely to be consumed on.

The New $6k Apple XDR monitor probably (at least partially) hopes to establish a new de facto standard for assessing managed color for the coming era.

Basically, there’s a chance IT could become a new color delivery standard should it’s price verses capability prove compelling in tomorrow’s edit suites and it’s colorimetry proves acceptable to a wide enough slice of the market.

We’ll see.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Early tester James Tonkin on the new MacPro in actual use.
on Dec 13, 2019 at 8:05:16 pm

[Bill Davis] "It used to be so simple when your countries broadcast system HAD a specific technical standard."

Didn't NTSC stand for Never The Same Color? 😉 Even with analog film there's no guarantee that the projectionist would set the projector up with the proper brightness or aspect ratio.

Reference monitors are monitors that can reliably and accurately display an image that adheres to published technical standards when properly calibrated. If we send out a pure white video signal then the a ref monitor should show pure white (not beige, not blue-ish white, pink-ish white etc.,). If we send out a pure black video signal then the monitor should display pure black (not gray or green/black or blue/black).

Not only does this give content creators a clear and accurate depiction of the work they are doing but it also provides a level consistency for the viewer. Even if their viewing device displays the image incorrectly (too light, too dark, too blue, too yellow, etc.,) it will at least be consistently incorrect as long as the content creators adhered published standards. Things like the CALM Act (Commercial Advertisement Loudness Mitigation) wouldn't be possible if we, as content creators, didn't have an agreed up set of standards.

With that being said, not everyone needs (or can afford) reference gear that can easily get well into six figures, but I think people should at least aim for the best gear that suits their budget and their needs.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Early tester James Tonkin on the new MacPro in actual use.
on Dec 13, 2019 at 8:53:44 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "Things like the CALM Act (Commercial Advertisement Loudness Mitigation) wouldn't be possible if we, as content creators, didn't have an agreed up set of standards."

The trouble with standards is that everyone can have one. Witness the mess that is HDR.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Early tester James Tonkin on the new MacPro in actual use.
on Dec 13, 2019 at 9:29:54 pm
Last Edited By Andrew Kimery on Dec 13, 2019 at 9:31:33 pm

https://xkcd.com/927/




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Rich Rubasch
Re: Early tester James Tonkin on the new MacPro in actual use.
on Dec 13, 2019 at 11:25:25 pm

I always heard NTSC meant Never Twice the Same Color with the "twice" being the key.

I do normally trust all my portable Apple devices and even my MacbookPro, but the iMac Pro monitor was very problematic with saturation and there is no setting in calibration to bring it down. Sure wish there was!

So I'm curious if the engine is the same in the new Apple Display.

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production, Post, Studio Sound Stage
Founder/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
http://www.tiltmedia.com


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Bill Davis
Re: Early tester James Tonkin on the new MacPro in actual use.
on Dec 14, 2019 at 1:06:55 am

I doubt it will be the same as the IMac Pro monitors. From everything I’ve read, Apple pretty much re-imagined the Pro Display XDR from the light emitters out.

The only thing I’m sure of is that I spent 30 years pretty much as a slave to Vectorscopes and Waveform monitors. But over the past 5 years of so I ONLY seem to use them if third party content comes in looking wrong.

Once signals hit my screen and are scoped as OK, the rest of the pathway to distribution seeks to be ROCK SOLID - and when I see the work later via broadcast, on the web - or on a personal digital device - the experience is pretty universally reliable.

Pretty sure that’s because Apple built their “managed color” pipeline to enable that.

But I hardly think about color anomalies in my post pipeline much any more.

Huge difference from the early days.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Early tester James Tonkin on the new MacPro in actual use.
on Dec 14, 2019 at 1:15:53 am
Last Edited By Oliver Peters on Dec 14, 2019 at 1:21:34 am

[Bill Davis] "I doubt it will be the same as the IMac Pro monitors. From everything I’ve read, Apple pretty much re-imagined the Pro Display XDR from the light emitters out. "

But the software color management will be the same. Remember that this is not an actual HDR display. It's a P3 display with extended brightness range. So images will likely look right in FCPX, but probably not in other video apps. Probably even including QT Player. Not bad, just not accurate.

There may also be a difference if you are judging the image inside a viewer pane within the software or if it's an extended desktop display getting the fullscreen a/v output signal. That's for those rich enough to buy at least two of these on a system :)

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Rich Rubasch
Re: Early tester James Tonkin on the new MacPro in actual use.
on Dec 14, 2019 at 2:25:53 am

What Oliver said...What was nice in the old days of AVID is you had a reliable video output usually to a calibrated and expensive broadcast monitor. Naturally we don't watch on CRT tubes via TV broadcast anymore, but panels are so different. Compare the same clip on an iPhone, Samsung, iPad, google phone etc and I dare you to say they are all the same.

I'm still not sure making final color decisions on an Apple display is a good workflow. I'd much rather have an AJA card feeding a Flanders Scientific via SDI and use that for color.

We are all gaga about the new monitor, but for me it still is just a place to hold my software interface panels, Pages docs, email and internet surfing....not critical color.

I am also curious about angle of view...nothing beats my old plasma panels throughout my house and office for angle of view and reliable color.

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production, Post, Studio Sound Stage
Founder/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
http://www.tiltmedia.com


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Ronny Courtens
Re: Early tester James Tonkin on the new MacPro in actual use.
on Dec 14, 2019 at 9:22:31 am

In the setup at Hangman Studios, the colours seem very accurate across the pipeline. I could see no difference between the viewers in FCP X or Resolve on one Pro Display, and the program out on another Pro Display connected directly via Thunderbolt to the Mac Pro. It was even very hard to see any difference between the images on the Pro Displays and the 77" OLED monitor connected via HDMi and a Blackmagic card. The difference between the Pro Displays and the LG OLED tv only becomes apparent when you start running HDR footage.

This is a quote from James Tonkin that I left out of the article:

I have a 77" OLED LG screen in the grading suite, which is a jaw-dropping display. Everyone who comes in here always gets drawn to that screen. But that tv only has 500 Nits of peak brightness. Last week I was doing some HDR tests and I was totally baffled by how far I could push the Pro Displays. You don't realise how amazing that extremity of HDR luminance looks until you sit in front of a real HDR display and start pushing things around. These Pro Displays are extremely accurate and will last a very long time.

- Ronny


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Oliver Peters
Re: Early tester James Tonkin on the new MacPro in actual use.
on Dec 14, 2019 at 1:03:40 pm

Ronny,

What's not totally clear from the article is how the two XDR displays are connected. Tonkin talks about one for UI and the other for video output. Is he doing that direct via TB3 out of the Mac Pro? The photos show Resolve, which can't do that like FCPX can. So is the XDR for video being driven by the BMD hardware? Or both?

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Early tester James Tonkin on the new MacPro in actual use.
on Dec 12, 2019 at 9:59:51 pm

[Rich Rubasch] "For example it's pretty well documented that the iMac Pro monitor is oversaturated."

It's oversaturated in apps other than FCPX. I'm not sure that it's incorrect in FCPX. But I haven't double-checked that.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Early tester James Tonkin on the new MacPro in actual use.
on Dec 12, 2019 at 10:02:06 pm

[Rich Rubasch] "I'm confused by the Radeon Vega II Duo...is the advantage there that it is a single slot card? I certainly want to reserve slots if that is the case."

As I understand the price table, you can get 1 card with 1 GPU, 2 of those, 1 card with 2 GPUs, and 2 cards with 2 GPUs (total of 4). The advantage to getting two cards is more TB ports, I believe.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Eric Santiago
Re: Early tester James Tonkin on the new MacPro in actual use.
on Dec 16, 2019 at 7:50:08 pm

I asked this on a diff post in regards to the W5700X 16GB option.
I am ready to press buy (base 8GB) but wondering about the 16GB.
I understand that more is better but is there anything else I should know e.g. taking up slots etc...


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Early tester James Tonkin on the new MacPro in actual use.
on Dec 16, 2019 at 10:13:00 pm

Vincent Laforet is recommending some prelim MacPro Configs:

https://blog.vincentlaforet.com/2019/12/12/mac-pro-configuration-recommenda...

He jumps straight to the one 32GB card.


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Eric Santiago
Re: Early tester James Tonkin on the new MacPro in actual use.
on Dec 17, 2019 at 1:46:50 am

Uggh that's out of my budget range.
I talked to the local Apple rep here and he thinks the W5700X will clock in closer to 1500 USD.
That too is out of my range.
My day job is mostly Adobe After Effects and the D700 is cutting it.
I have an HP Z240 for Maya which is fine for now.
Are these video cards upgradeable?
I know stupid question but I've been out of the loop and haven't been reading any specs or forums.
I just focus on this site mostly.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Early tester James Tonkin on the new MacPro in actual use.
on Dec 17, 2019 at 2:19:35 am

[Eric Santiago] "My day job is mostly Adobe After Effects and the D700 is cutting it."

AE likes CPU over GPU plus RAM. More cores, less money for GPU. Opposite from editing or Resolve.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Eric Santiago
Re: Early tester James Tonkin on the new MacPro in actual use.
on Dec 17, 2019 at 4:16:56 am

[Oliver Peters] "AE likes CPU over GPU plus RAM. More cores, less money for GPU. Opposite from editing or Resolve.

- Oliver"


Thanks, Oliver, I'm sold on upgrading to 12cores as oppose to waiting for the W5700X.
And def getting RAM from OWC.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Early tester James Tonkin on the new MacPro in actual use.
on Dec 17, 2019 at 2:34:30 am
Last Edited By Jeremy Garchow on Dec 17, 2019 at 3:14:23 am

[Eric Santiago] "Are these video cards upgradeable?
I know stupid question but I've been out of the loop and haven't been reading any specs or forums."


There’s a chassis (called an MPX module (Mac Pro eXpansion?)) that houses GPUs, and provides more thunderbolt ports. Here’s a primer: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210408

Short answer, yes you can add a normal PCIe GPU, long answer, not every GPU is supported, and you’d miss on Infinity Fabric connections which are high speed connections between GPUs.

You can get the 8GB and always upgrade later.


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Dom Silverio
Re: Early tester James Tonkin on the new MacPro in actual use.
on Dec 17, 2019 at 1:53:46 am

It doesn't make sense to buy all that SSD and RAM from Apple.
Cheaper from Amazon, Newegg, B&H, etc.


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Bob Zelin
Re: Early tester James Tonkin on the new MacPro in actual use.
on Dec 17, 2019 at 6:26:55 pm

I just installed my first 2019 Mac Pro for 730 Eddy Studios in Grand Rapids, Michigan.
They are my first customer with one of these, and they are as I write this installing
Adobe CC. It's connected to the QNAP via 10G for storage. I am anxious to see their results, as
they are going to start testing as soon as Premiere is loaded.

Mac Pro has a single Radeon Pro Vega II with 32 Gig VRAM and 96 Gig of RAM.

I will report back !
Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Early tester James Tonkin on the new MacPro in actual use.
on Dec 17, 2019 at 10:26:32 pm

[Bob Zelin] "I will report back !"

How's it going, 4 hours later!?!?!?!?!?


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Bob Zelin
Re: Early tester James Tonkin on the new MacPro in actual use.
on Dec 17, 2019 at 11:45:34 pm

It's in Michigan - I am in Florida.
I will get info tomorrow !

Bob

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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Eric Santiago
Re: Early tester James Tonkin on the new MacPro in actual use.
on Dec 18, 2019 at 4:22:14 am

[Bob Zelin] "It's in Michigan - I am in Florida.
I will get info tomorrow !
"


I thought you can teleport ;)


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Oliver Peters
Re: Early tester James Tonkin on the new MacPro in actual use.
on Dec 18, 2019 at 2:06:29 pm

Real world example - AfterBurner and ProRes







- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Herb Sevush
Re: Early tester James Tonkin on the new MacPro in actual use.
on Dec 18, 2019 at 2:16:49 pm

Darn it Oliver, I was ready to order my system and had not even considered getting the afterburner, but now I have to reconsider. I am pretty much solely ProRes multicam with a mix of 4K and HD and that kind of playback has me green with envy. Now I have to consider dropping either my CPU cores or my GPU specs to fit the afterburner into my budget. Grrrr!

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Oliver Peters
Re: Early tester James Tonkin on the new MacPro in actual use.
on Dec 18, 2019 at 2:25:24 pm

Herb,

Remember that you can always add it later. Also this is with FCPX. Hopefully the same (or similar) ProRes performance will be there in other apps.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Bill Davis
Re: Early tester James Tonkin on the new MacPro in actual use.
on Dec 18, 2019 at 11:47:49 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Also this is with FCPX. Hopefully the same (or similar) ProRes performance will be there in other apps."

From the general web discussions, I suspect Resolve and FCP X will both be close to optimized. But the Adobe suite being CUDA centric and maybe not looking as directly for Metal code, might not benefit as much.

Still, you've got to figure with THAT much horsepower, not being coded as optimized for CUDA might not matter quite so much?

I'm sure we'll hear the user story drumbeats soon surrounding a wide variety of configurations.

I also suspect that the Afterburner story might be the one to really watch. As I understand it, there are slots in the MacPro that could support up to 3 Afterburner cards, theoretically each of which might eventually be able to be flashed to support a particular editors or shops regularly encountered codecs?

This "Afterburner" Programmable ASICS deal might be just the beginning of some very interesting things.

Time will tell.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Early tester James Tonkin on the new MacPro in actual use.
on Dec 19, 2019 at 12:38:11 am

[Bill Davis] "But the Adobe suite being CUDA centric and maybe not looking as directly for Metal code, might not benefit as much. "

Actually that hasn't been the case for a year or more. True on the PC side, but not on the Mac side.

[Bill Davis] "theoretically each of which might eventually be able to be flashed to support a particular editors or shops regularly encountered codecs?
This "Afterburner" Programmable ASICS deal might be just the beginning of some very interesting things. "


In theory yes, but in practical application, highly unlikely. This card and what you can do with it will probably be very tightly controlled by Apple. As such, it will probably only accelerate codecs that are in Apple's interest or by companies that Apple has an understanding with. Maybe RED for instance. Or not. Don't hold your breath.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Early tester James Tonkin on the new MacPro in actual use.
on Dec 19, 2019 at 6:51:44 pm
Last Edited By Oliver Peters on Dec 19, 2019 at 7:13:52 pm

Some links Bob Z found.

More testing







Also a good teardown video







- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Bob Zelin
Re: Early tester James Tonkin on the new MacPro in actual use.
on Dec 19, 2019 at 9:44:56 pm

well, first let me say that I am falling in love with the 2019 Mac Pro. And I have never personally had my hands on one (just via remote over the internet).

But I just found this -
https://www.sonnettech.com/product/m2-4x4-pcie-card.html
which is a supported card in the 2019 Mac Pro.
You put four 2TB Samsung EVO 970 NVMe's in there, and you will get over 5000 MB/sec bandwidth.
8K will be child's play. The card is under 400 bucks, and each 2TB EVO 970 is about 400 bucks, so for $2000 bucks you get completely insane performance for 8TB of storage - which is not a lot in todays world, but for a special project - even a large project - well, it's amazing.

AND because I have been so tied up with QNAP and Synology shared storage systems, and got so discouraged when Apple screwed up the server product in macOS 10.13 - I kind of forgot about using a Mac as a server. But because of the Sonnet card, I just RE tested file sharing over a network with macOS 10.15.2, and it works great - once again, with no permissions errors with multiple users.

So everything is starting to fall back into place again. This is going to be one crazy NAB show (for the first time in a long time).

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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Tom Sefton
Re: Early tester James Tonkin on the new MacPro in actual use.
on Dec 20, 2019 at 4:49:28 pm

https://www.mysterybox.us/blog/2019/12/12/2019-macpro-first-impression-stre...

8K 60P in a HDR workspace rendering to 4K Prores, brings roughly 3x speed increase over the top spec iMac Pro. This doesn't include the most recent Metal/r3d speed bump, nor is the afterburner doing much to help. which can potentially happen in the future.

Co-owner at Pollen Studio
http://www.pollenstudio.co.uk


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Herb Sevush
Re: Early tester James Tonkin on the new MacPro in actual use.
on Dec 20, 2019 at 5:36:00 pm

[Tom Sefton] "8K 60P in a HDR workspace rendering to 4K Prores, brings roughly 3x speed increase over the top spec iMac Pro."

From the article it sounds like you're using the fully maxed out $53K version - is that correct?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Tom Sefton
Re: Early tester James Tonkin on the new MacPro in actual use.
on Dec 20, 2019 at 5:46:42 pm

It’s definitely a 28 core and has 2 x dual GPUs but I’d highly doubt there is 1.5TB of ram in there.

I’ve costed a similar system and it’s around £19k ex vat. Ram can be bought way cheaper from OWC too.

If resolve isn’t utilising all GPUs, it’s maybe wise to go with 2 x single vega pro GPUs and upgrade later if needed.

Co-owner at Pollen Studio
http://www.pollenstudio.co.uk


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Rich Rubasch
Re: Early tester James Tonkin on the new MacPro in actual use.
on Dec 22, 2019 at 2:53:40 am

It's definitely exciting when Zelin is excited about new tech because someone is bound to ask a dumb question!

But I'd say that so far the MacPro is creating exactly the kind of buzz that Mac users needed. Rather than, "well, it looks like a trash can" the dialog is "what kind of crazy things can we do with this thing?"

Super exciting.

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production, Post, Studio Sound Stage
Founder/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
http://www.tiltmedia.com


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