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Red raw and apple

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Tom Sefton
Red raw and apple
on Nov 9, 2019 at 9:09:59 pm

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?179139-Apple-RED

R3D lives on. Long live r3d and metal.

Co-owner at Pollen Studio
http://www.pollenstudio.co.uk


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Craig Seeman
Re: Red raw and apple
on Nov 10, 2019 at 6:22:58 am

Apple’s RED RAW patent challenge dismissed by US patent Office

And Newsshoter on this subject



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Michael Gissing
Re: Red raw and apple
on Nov 10, 2019 at 11:27:05 pm

The question remains if RED have any intent on pressing Apple or Blackmagic for royalties on their compressed RAW variants. RED might not want to get on the wrong side of Apple with whom they have had a good relationship with so far.

The fact that Blackmagic don't charge any fee to use BRAW might make them less likely to be a target. Also they have a degree of pre processing that might be a legal loophole if it came to litigation.

It might give Apple pause to continue to develop ProResRAW or push it out unless they also just give it away. Personally I hate it when patents are used to stifle innovation.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Red raw and apple
on Nov 11, 2019 at 1:29:43 am

Here Alex Gollner's comments:

http://alex4d.com/notes/item/us-patent-office-deny-apples-review-of-raw-vid...

I can't agree with his assessment that ProRes RAW is superior based on compression. Both a compressed codecs. Naturally ProRes RAW is friendlier for Apple hardware and software, but conversely, the actual raw adjustments are not exposed to any software yet that I'm aware of. So there doesn't seem to be any advantage to using it over a log profile.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Michael Gissing
Re: Red raw and apple
on Nov 11, 2019 at 3:33:49 am

I agree Oliver that declaring ProResRAW superior is not necessarily true. If both achieve lossless compression and one has been proven to be better for older hardware, then it suggests R3D is in fact superior. I've not had practical experience with ProResRAW on a Win PC but I have with R3D and BRAW and it is hard to imagine it is a better codec. I hope Resolve will be able to read it however and that Apple reciprocate with BRAW support in X.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Red raw and apple
on Nov 14, 2019 at 12:58:59 am

FWIW - here's a long thread at RedUser. Note Jarred Land's first post.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?179139-Apple-RED

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Eric Santiago
Re: Red raw and apple
on Nov 14, 2019 at 1:51:12 pm

[Oliver Peters] "FWIW - here's a long thread at RedUser. Note Jarred Land's first post.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?179139-Apple-RED
"


It was a bittersweet moment when I was cutting through 4K DCI media like butter in FCPX.
My ROCKET-X cards ended up in the dust bin after that.
Not really a good feeling when you see close to 8K USD tech become somewhat useless.

On a positive note, hoping for an AFTERBURNER + RED option :)


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Oliver Peters
Re: Red raw and apple
on Nov 14, 2019 at 2:24:30 pm

[Eric Santiago] "Not really a good feeling when you see close to 8K USD tech become somewhat useless.
On a positive note, hoping for an AFTERBURNER + RED option :)"


And what makes you think Afterburner won't encounter that same fate in a few years?

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Joe Marler
Re: Red raw and apple
on Nov 14, 2019 at 3:04:00 pm

[Oliver Peters] "what makes you think Afterburner won't encounter that same fate in a few years?"

It is implemented using an FPGA, not a fixed-function, full-custom ASIC. In theory this can be reprogrammed in the field to incorporate new algorithms, codecs, etc.

This is possibly how Blackmagic implemented BRAW in their cameras, after the cameras were already designed and deployed. Only an FPGA has the horsepower to do this.

E.g, you could hypothetically update a NLE to better handle a "difficult" codec, but that is just software, and is restricted to the CPU's instruction set. By contrast an FPGA does this in hardware.

They are more expensive per piece than a full custom ASIC and they burn more power, but the time-to-market is much faster and they can be reprogrammed in the field, at least conceptually.

Traditionally you wouldn't use an FPGA in high-volume product where power consumption was critical, but in a lower volume product that could not amortize the design cost of a full custom ASIC, and where power consumption was an acceptable tradeoff. However FPGA progress has been so marked that they are increasingly used outside this formally narrow area.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Red raw and apple
on Nov 14, 2019 at 3:40:44 pm

[Joe Marler] "It is implemented using an FPGA, not a fixed-function, full-custom ASIC. In theory this can be reprogrammed in the field to incorporate new algorithms, codecs, etc. "

I'm not sure this is something a user would be able to do in the field. Plus, other attempts at FPGAs in a card when done in the past still resulted in obsolete cards. Hopefully that part of the technology has improved.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Michael Gissing
Re: Red raw and apple
on Nov 14, 2019 at 8:58:24 pm

[Oliver Peters] "I'm not sure this is something a user would be able to do in the field."

Yes BM use FPGA cards in their cameras and it is indeed why they have been able to be updated in the field to new codecs. A laptop and USB cable is all you need to update new software that does indeed add new functionality.

FPGA capability was one of the IP gifts that Fairlight brought to BM. Fairlight have been using FPGAs for over 14 years. They are not power hungry.


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Eric Santiago
Re: Red raw and apple
on Nov 14, 2019 at 3:21:34 pm

[Oliver Peters] "And what makes you think Afterburner won't encounter that same fate in a few years?"

Like I said, looking for positives.
Heck if I can get more than 3 years out of the AFTERBURNER then I'm good.
The ROCKETS paid itself off in 2 plus years and can still be used.
But only works with DSMC1 footage :(


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Oliver Peters
Re: Red raw and apple
on Nov 14, 2019 at 3:38:44 pm

[Eric Santiago] "Heck if I can get more than 3 years out of the AFTERBURNER then I'm good."

Of course, RED has already demonstrated this technology with NVIDIA cards :/

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Red raw and apple
on Nov 21, 2019 at 7:00:29 pm

A bit of marketing pushback from RED ☺

https://www.red.com/power-of-red-redcode

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Tom Sefton
Re: Red raw and apple
on Nov 22, 2019 at 10:07:57 am

Redcode has always been a fantastic tool - its a very impressive codec that can be revisited a few years later with the new colour science and produce even better results than you previously expected.

I really, really hope that the new Mac Pro can provide some performance boosts when dealing with redcode footage.

Co-owner at Pollen Studio
http://www.pollenstudio.co.uk


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