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FCPX now the only major NLE without BRAW support

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Craig Seeman
FCPX now the only major NLE without BRAW support
on Sep 15, 2019 at 5:21:51 pm

ProRes Raw and Blackmagic Raw Expand Platforms, (But Not With Each Other)
https://nofilmschool.com/2019/09/prores-raw-and-blackmagic-raw-expand-platf...

BMD releases free BRAW plugin for Premiere Pro and Media Composer
ProRes RAW to be supported in Premiere Pro and Media Composer

BMD releases Video Assist which can record BRAW from cameras that can send raw much as Atmos does with ProRes RAW

FCPX doesn't support BRAW
Resolve doesn't support ProRes RAW

I do wish Apple would talk about the future if BRAW will be supported. I don't think the silence helps them.



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Gabriel Spaulding
Re: FCPX now the only major NLE without BRAW support
on Sep 15, 2019 at 7:04:21 pm

My guess is that the next major FCP X update, likely timed with the Mac Pro release or the FCPX Creative Summit, will have Braw support and an updated Color pane in the Inspector with Raw controls.

FCP X and Resolve play pretty nicely with each other, which means Apple and Blackmagic Design have a somewhat healthy relationship (the Blackmagic eGPU on the Apple Store being one example). It seems odd to me that Apple would open up ProRes Raw to other parties while not allowing Braw in its own apps.

I presently have two cameras that record Braw and while I have zero interest in cutting in Resolve many who capture Braw will choose to stick with Resolve, leading to lost FCP X editors. Seems like bad business not to enable Braw in FCP X.

Gabriel Spaulding
Creator & Director of ACE Enterprizes
Cinematographer | Editor | Motion Designer

How Can We Help You Tell Your Story?
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Michael Gissing
Re: FCPX now the only major NLE without BRAW support
on Sep 16, 2019 at 2:55:21 am

It might seem like logical good business for Apple to support BRAW and BM to support ProResRAW, but it comes as no surprise that FCPX is now the only one not to have BRAW support and BM are not talking about supporting ProResRAW when Adobe and AVID will.

It's competitive out there. I'm pretty sure BM would be fine supporting ProResRAW (although Grant Petty is on record saying it's a poor RAW format), but might not support it until Apple reciprocates. Ball is in Apple's court.


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Bill Davis
Re: FCPX now the only major NLE without BRAW support
on Sep 16, 2019 at 5:45:34 am

BRaw is BlackMagic Design’s intellectual property.
They control who can use it. Period.
Exactly like ProRes RAW is Apples intellectual property.
In both cases, the way copyright law works, if you don’t defend your IP - you risk losing it.
While there’s an open source SDK and Grant Petty is on record as saying any other company can implement BRaw without royalty, I’m not sure that’s the same as Apple enabling BRaw in FCP X without BlackMagic reciprocating and enabling, say, ProRes RAW on BlackMagic cameras.

Heck, why not BRAW recording on iPhones and ProRes RAW pipelines in Resolve?

We all can hold out hope that this type of cum-by-yah cooperation will happen someday - but I suspect it will be a while.

Hope I’m wrong, tho,

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Michael Gissing
Re: FCPX now the only major NLE without BRAW support
on Sep 16, 2019 at 7:54:27 am

I'd say there is no chance BM cameras will support ProResRAW. Resolve could but not the cameras. Even though they are FPGA driven, adding extra codecs might limit the scope of what the cameras other processing or operational software can do. I'm also not sure there is any significant demand from BM camera users for ProResRAW. I've used BRAW. It's amazing and personally I won't want ProResRAW.

I would like Resolve to deal with ProResRAW playback however.


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: FCPX now the only major NLE without BRAW support
on Oct 4, 2019 at 4:41:13 pm

[Michael Gissing] "adding extra codecs might limit the scope of what the cameras other processing or operational software can do."

Then there's the EVA1 which can only do 5.7K when recording to PRRaw. Similar conditions with various other cameras (FX9 anyone?). So actually the exact opposite is clearly the case.



[Michael Gissing] "and personally I won't want ProResRAW."

Only that PRRaw is actual RAW, B"RAW" isn't. But to each his own I guess.



[Joe Marler] "That said, if Apple doesn't further increase the momentum behind ProRes RAW, they could end up in a position like Intel when they temporarily refused to advance the x86 CPU to 64 bits. "

Not sure how anyone can argue that PRRaw is the one behind the other by any stretch. How many major camera OEMs actively support PRRaw? How many B"RAW"? Exactly. Which has been supported by more NLEs and grading apps etc. first/for longer?

And it's not even like the VAST majority even actually NEED raw or even have any real knowledge of what it means. For 99% it's little more than a "nice to have". So to shoot in a format that you can't even read in post just… because??

And it would seem to me like a lot of people are grossly overestimating BMDs position in the market, especially if we're talking about the high-end. That being the only area of the market that is relevant in the end to establish a new standard, as ProRes has done before. With a lot of the exact same counter-arguments seen in 2007 as well. I guess history does repeat itself.



[Joe Marler] "It could include significant performance tuning for FCPX on high-core-count hardware…"

Apple has already stated publically that the next update will be completely rewritten to support Metal 2, which covers all the bases, yes.



[Jeff Kirkland] "but Apple haven't felt the need to add support for any other raw format (CDNG for example)"

Huhwha? 🤨 I've edited cDNG sequences many times over in both FCP and Motion.

- RK

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Jeff Kirkland
Re: FCPX now the only major NLE without BRAW support
on Oct 4, 2019 at 7:46:00 pm
Last Edited By Jeff Kirkland on Oct 4, 2019 at 7:48:53 pm

[Robin S. Kurz] "I've edited cDNG sequences many times over in both FCP and Motion."
Have I missed something? Last time I tried, you had to do a whole lot of messing around because FCPX saw the cDNG folder as individual still frames rather than as a single video clip like other NLEs would, which made it a miserable experience. I couldn't figure out any other way to make it work but I'm always happy to learn...

So what was I doing wrong? How do I get FCPX to recognise the cDNG folder as a video file? Or has this come in an update and I haven't noticed?

----
Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer & Cinematographer
Hobart, Tasmania | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


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Carmi Weinzweig
Re: FCPX now the only major NLE without BRAW support
on Sep 16, 2019 at 8:10:10 am

[Bill Davis] "BRaw is BlackMagic Design’s intellectual property.
They control who can use it. Period.


Absolutely true, and they have made it clear that they will license it on a royalty free basis.

Exactly like ProRes RAW is Apples intellectual property.

Apple is much less clear about what their licensing terms are for ProRes, however, Blackmagic have licensed it before (both for their cameras and for Resolve on Windows) and I see no reason why they would not want to include it in Resolve.

While there’s an open source SDK and Grant Petty is on record as saying any other company can implement BRaw without royalty, I’m not sure that’s the same as Apple enabling BRaw in FCP X without BlackMagic reciprocating and enabling, say, ProRes RAW on BlackMagic cameras.

While I have no information, it seems way more likely that Apple has chosen not to license ProRes RAW to Blackmagic, than the flip side (i.e. they have offered it to Blackmagic and Blackmagic said they did not want it).

Heck, why not BRAW recording on iPhones and ProRes RAW pipelines in Resolve?

That would be awesome! However, given that we do not have ProRes RAW on iOS, I would be surprised to ever see Blackmagic RAW there. ☺ On the other hand, I would not be at all surprised to see ProRes RAW in Resolve, if Apple decides to allow it.


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Joe Marler
Re: FCPX now the only major NLE without BRAW support
on Sep 16, 2019 at 3:19:38 pm

[Craig Seeman] "BMD releases Video Assist which can record BRAW from cameras that can send raw much as Atmos does with ProRes RAW

FCPX doesn't support BRAW
Resolve doesn't support ProRes RAW"


The Panasonic S1H will support ProRes RAW to the Atomos Ninja V sometime early 2020.

Earlier this year several post-production systems announced support for ProRes RAW: https://www.provideocoalition.com/prores-raw-coming-to-a-number-of-post-pro...

Financially it's probably more important for Resolve to support ProRes RAW than FCPX to support BRAW. Blackmagic makes most of their money from hardware, and wider BRAW adoption likely increases hardware sales. IOW if FCPX supports BRAW that will help Blackmagic more than Apple is helped by Resolve supporting ProRes RAW. Apple likely knows this and might be negotiating hardball with Blackmagic for licensing fees.

That said, if Apple doesn't further increase the momentum behind ProRes RAW, they could end up in a position like Intel when they temporarily refused to advance the x86 CPU to 64 bits.

Intel took a hardball position their Itanium CPU with its new instruction set would become the new standard. They restricted any work on advancing x86 to 64 bits. Seemingly overnight, AMD's 64-bit instruction set became widely adopted, then it was too late for Intel to act. Today Itanium is dead and Intel must license AMD's 64-bit instruction set, which is humiliating. It's not impossible that could happen with Apple and ProRes RAW.

OTOH the opposite could happen: BRAW and ProRes RAW are acquisition formats, so the real question is how will this play out long term across the camera ecosystem. If Apple can convince more camera manufacturers to support ProRes RAW and only Blackmagic's cameras acquire in BRAW, then no matter how many NLEs support BRAW, over time more content will be produced in ProRes RAW.


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Craig Seeman
Re: FCPX now the only major NLE without BRAW support
on Sep 16, 2019 at 3:43:37 pm
Last Edited By Craig Seeman on Sep 16, 2019 at 3:48:54 pm

[Joe Marler] "IOW if FCPX supports BRAW that will help Blackmagic more than Apple is helped by Resolve supporting ProRes RAW. "

Apple sells hardware as well. Macs. Given the popularity of BMD cameras, it's for FCPX users to move to Resolve and easy for Resolve users to leave Apple for Windows and NVIDIA GPUs.

If BMD cameras weren't so popular it might not be an issue but my gut tells me that BMD may be selling more cameras than ATMOS selling their ProResRAW enabled Recorder/Monitors to those who use it for ProRes RAW recording.

Of course it's just as easy to move to PremierePro and Media Composer for BRAW and STILL have ProRes RAW capability and move to Windows as well.

There is only ONE "major" NLE the REQUIRES using a Mac and it is only the ONLY "major" NLE that doesn't support BRAW.

Apple isn't really in hardball position because the movement is from FCPX to Resolve (my guess) as people buy BMD cameras and the movement can easily include PremierePro and Media Composer additionally.

Apple gains nothing by excluding BRAW support and increases the possibility of the move to Windows as editors move to other Mac NLEs with BRAW and then have the opportunity to easily move to Windows when it comes time to make new purchases.



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Paul Golden
Re: FCPX now the only major NLE without BRAW support
on Sep 16, 2019 at 4:03:03 pm

I guess I'm curious how NLE support for proprietary codecs work in general?

Is it up to Blackmagic to write a plug-in for Apple?

Is it up to Apple to look at Blackmagic's SDK and write their own plug-in?

Can a third party write an FCPX plug-in to support BRaw and charge for it until either of BMD or Apple write one? That's what happened with the Adobe BRaw (BRAW Studio) plug-in that was $29.00 up until a few days ago.

Does anyone know if Avid or Adobe collaborated with BMD to implement BRaw or did BMD do this on their own?

Obviously, neither Avid or Premiere have their own RAW codecs, so it's in BMD's interest to expand their camera compatibility and codec uptake to Avid and Premiere. With Apple and BMD, would BMD not want their cameras/codec supported in FCPX? Would Apple want BMD camera users to go elsewhere to edit their projects?

I'm so confused!


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Joe Marler
Re: FCPX now the only major NLE without BRAW support
on Sep 16, 2019 at 4:44:43 pm

[Paul Golden] "Can a third party write an FCPX plug-in to support BRaw"

Starting with Catalina this is no longer possible. The QTKit method of user-installable codecs is going away.

It is apparently still possible to write and install new 64-bit codecs via plugin because Pro VIdeo Formats does this (XAVC, DV, etc). Also future 3rd-party codec support is possible because RED RAW and Canon Cinema RAW Light are listed in Apple's HT209000 article as being supported within FCPX going forward - provided RED or Canon software is installed. Likewise Avid just announced Apple will support DNxHD and HR (under Catalina) with a Pro Formats update. This is different from Avid supporting DNxHD solely within Media Composer; it implies there will be system-wide support including FCPX editing DNxHD on Catalina.

Unlike QTKit which had a documented procedure for extensible 3rd-party codecs (which were 32-bit and will no longer work starting with Catalina), under AVFoundation the technical method and approval mechanism for doing this has not been revealed.

In Nov. 2018 Jon Chappell at Digital Rebellion wrote a good blog post explaining some of the underlying issues: https://www.digitalrebellion.com/blog/posts/thoughts_on_32_bit_codecs_being...


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Joe Marler
Re: FCPX now the only major NLE without BRAW support
on Sep 16, 2019 at 5:45:29 pm

[Craig Seeman] "If BMD cameras weren't so popular it might not be an issue"

It is a fluid situation. BMD cameras are popular but BRAW was only released for the BMPCC4k six months ago. Most BMD installations are probably using a ProRes ecosystem and a NLE that supports ProRes. This can change, but much beyond single-camera "hobbyist"-type use involves workflow issues, analysis, buy-in from post production managers, producers, etc.

For anything above single users, I don't see an immediate near-term move from FCPX to Resolve or other NLEs based solely on presence or absence of BRAW support. Likewise I don't think groups were abandoning Avid for Resolve due to lack of BRAW support, only to suddenly stop two days ago when Avid began supporting it. Things happen more slowly than that when production groups and workflow issues are involved. E.g, a lot of feature films shot on Arri still use 12-bit ProRes 4444, even though ARRIRAW is available.

However Apple can't bank on institutional inertia. If it were not for Blackmagic and BRAW, maybe they could take their time. If only narrow high-end raw formats like Arri and RED existed, Apple could try to gradually convince the ecosystem to standardize on ProRes RAW, while negotiating hard on licensing. But I don't think they can handle it like ProRes.

Blackmagic is developing Resolve very rapidly and BRAW is proliferating rapidly. The glacial development pace of FCPX has got to improve.

Maybe this is already happening, only we don't know it. With few exceptions (like the new Mac Pro) Apple doesn't keep the community informed of their plans. The best source of "inside" intelligence comes, not from leaks, but putting yourself in the mind of inside decision makers. Using that method I don't see Apple harming their investment in the new Mac Pro (and associated halo effect) by letting FCPX development grind to a halt or not supporting BRAW.

Based on this I would expect a significant upgrade in FCPX in the relatively near future, also that it will support BRAW. This is nothing more than a guess.

On the low end the FCPX upgrade will have to include basic performance and scalability-related issues to fully harness high-end Mac Pro hardware. That may involve more than just drivers for the Afterburner card. It could include significant performance tuning for FCPX on high-core-count hardware or algorithmic changes for database I/O, thumbnail caching, etc. on 100 terabyte libraries.

For user-facing features, it might include some kind of collaborative workflow elements or script/text support. Collaboration is extremely difficult if done in a meaningful way. It is essentially a distributed transactional database, and SQLite is not designed for multi-user access. The development, test and support implications are major. It would make sense for a long period of limited new features while that internal development happens. We will know fairly soon when the Mac Pro is released.


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Craig Seeman
Re: FCPX now the only major NLE without BRAW support
on Sep 16, 2019 at 7:27:57 pm

[Joe Marler] "For anything above single users, I don't see an immediate near-term move from FCPX to Resolve or other NLEs based solely on presence or absence of BRAW support."

Arguably such facilities or workgroups are editing in FCPX but grading in Resolve. Unless they have physical infrastructure tied to collaborative workflow (another area Resolve had been focusing on), ending the round trip and possible collaborative improvements certainly may be a very strong motivator if this comes along with the move to BRAW.

[Joe Marler] "Blackmagic is developing Resolve very rapidly and BRAW is proliferating rapidly. The glacial development pace of FCPX has got to improve.
"


Yet another reason why a facility may consider moving.

[Joe Marler] "I don't think groups were abandoning Avid for Resolve due to lack of BRAW support,"

I'm not sure if the few ProRes RAW users felt locked into FCPX but they can certainly consider moving to PremierPro and Avid.

Unless a facility was entirely FCPX based rather than a mixed environment, these moves away from FCPX are probably easier then in the days were NLE moves meant major workflow and possible infrastructure changes.



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Jeff Kirkland
Re: FCPX now the only major NLE without BRAW support
on Sep 16, 2019 at 6:26:37 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Apple gains nothing by excluding BRAW support and increases the possibility of the move to Windows as editors move to other Mac NLEs with BRAW and then have the opportunity to easily move to Windows when it comes time to make new purchases."
I doubt I'd ever move to Windows but I've shot nothing but BRAW in the last six months and, as much as I love FCPX, that's meant editing in Resolve for all that time. I now have two machines where I haven't even bothered installing FCPX. I'm sure there are plenty of others out there doing the same.

Blackmagic's new version of their Video Assist monitor/recorder adds BRAW support to the Panasonic EVA1 and the Canon C300 II with more cameras to come. If Blackmagic stick to their plans, BRAW is certainly going to become an option for a lot of shooters going forward. I'll be interested to come back in a year and see how many cameras have a BRAW option vs a ProRes Raw option.

I'm sure Blackmagic are actively working on getting Apple to add support for BRAW but Apple haven't felt the need to add support for any other raw format (CDNG for example) so I'll be surprised if they feel any urgent need to add BRAW either.

----
Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer & Cinematographer
Hobart, Tasmania | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


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Joe Marler
Re: FCPX now the only major NLE without BRAW support
on Sep 17, 2019 at 11:11:32 am

[Jeff Kirkland] "Blackmagic's new version of their Video Assist monitor/recorder adds BRAW support to the Panasonic EVA1 and the Canon C300 II with more cameras to come. If Blackmagic stick to their plans, BRAW is certainly going to become an option for a lot of shooters going forward. I'll be interested to come back in a year and see how many cameras have a BRAW option vs a ProRes Raw option. "

Recently at IBC, Atomos CEO Jeromy Young said they have ProRes RAW working on 15-16 cameras, and they expect about 30 cameras by end of next year:

https://www.newsshooter.com/2019/09/14/atomos-announce-16bit-raw-support-fo...

I don't know his list of cameras, but but I see on Adorama they have "ProRes RAW Atomos/camera kits" available with the Canon C300 II, Panasonic EVA1 and Sony FS5. Also supported are the Canon C500, Varicam LT, Sony FS7 and FS700. ProRes RAW is available on the DJI Inspire 2 with X7 camera, the Nikon Z6/Z6 (November), and will be available early next year on the Panasonic S1H.

Jeromy Young also revealed the 8K files used at WWDC to demonstrated the Mac Pro were recorded on an Atomos Neon at 8k/60 in ProRes RAW from this prototype Canon 8K cinema camera: https://images.app.goo.gl/6B5pDSsYkqUFyZZEA and in the future Atomos would support up to 4k/120 ProRes RAW from the Sony FX9.


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Carmi Weinzweig
Re: FCPX now the only major NLE without BRAW support
on Oct 6, 2019 at 3:36:20 pm

[Joe Marler] "I don't know his list of cameras, but but I see on Adorama they have "ProRes RAW Atomos/camera kits" available with the Canon C300 II, Panasonic EVA1 and Sony FS5. Also supported are the Canon C500, Varicam LT, Sony FS7 and FS700. ProRes RAW is available on the DJI Inspire 2 with X7 camera, the Nikon Z6/Z6 (November), and will be available early next year on the Panasonic S1H."

Given that Blackmagic has announced support for Canon’s C300 Mark II and Panasonic’s EVA-1 with their Video Assist, I think it is likely that they will add the other Canon and Panasonic cameras that have ProResRaw support (C500, Varicam LT and S1H). Likely leaving Blackmagic RAW with many more devices in the field supporting it. Until we start to see adoption of one or the other in (other companies’) cameras, it will be impossible to pick a winner.


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