APPLE FINAL CUT PRO: Apple Final Cut Pro X FCPX Debates FCP Legacy FCP Tutorials

What if - AJA Cion and ProResRAW

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Oliver Peters
What if - AJA Cion and ProResRAW
on Sep 12, 2019 at 3:13:45 pm

OK, admittedly a bit of thinking out loud...

4 years ago AJA introduced their CION camera. I think it's probably an understatement to say the response was hugely underwhelming. But, it is actually a really good camera, shoots native ProRes flavors, and was positioned as a great workflow companion with FCPX.

I noticed that AJA is still selling it and at $4995, it's one of the best camera deals on the market for a robust, PL-mount, 4K cinema-style digital camera. I have produced one short video with one a couple of years back and the biggest quirk is their color science. Natively the images are very dark when left ungraded. However, it's got a super-clean 12-bit pipeline, so those image respond astoundingly well to grading, resulting in gorgeous, noise-free images. Unfortunately, people whose first impression is only based on seeing ungraded images react negatively. Not great for sales!

So, it would seem to me that if the ProResRAW issue were settled, the CION would be an ideal camera with which to offer in-camera RAW recordings. You can already record AJA's form of uncompressed RAW to an external recorder. However, adding in-camera ProResRAW could be a real plus for both Apple and AJA.

Thoughts?

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Tom Sefton
Re: What if - AJA Cion and ProResRAW
on Sep 12, 2019 at 6:02:31 pm

Shot a small project on one and loved it. Seemed to be the place arri went to with the amira. Really loved it - surprised it never took off.

Co-owner at Pollen Studio
http://www.pollenstudio.co.uk


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: What if - AJA Cion and ProResRAW
on Sep 12, 2019 at 6:43:00 pm

[Tom Sefton] "surprised it never took off."

My own theory is that in part AJA isn't know as a camera company, so there was and is inherent skepticism. Second, the ungraded image is very dark, rather than a flat log profile. It's like a very dense film negative. Although, it grades up quite nicely. Unfortunately, if your first impression is from the ungraded image, then you don't like what you see.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index


Michael Gissing
Re: What if - AJA Cion and ProResRAW
on Sep 13, 2019 at 3:01:15 am

I had one project that was shot with the Cion as primary interview camera. It had to intercut with a Panasonic (GH3 or 4 from memory) second interview wide, low light Sony a7s in caves plus RED close ups of lit spiders in a cave. (16 Legs is the doco if anyone has seen it).

Matching the Cion to anything was a chore. I went looking for a LUT to get me close but found nothing from AJA at the time. In the end I made my own set of nodes in Resolve. It did grade up nicely at times but it was such weird color science that it was always the camera that needed the most work to get close to anything else. I never really got it to match the GH which I thought looked nicer on skin tones in the end.

The editor shot the interviews with that camera and he didn't really like using it the end. I doubt AJA will want to get involved in any more dev with getting other codecs on board. It was an experiment that probably only encouraged them to stay out of cameras.


Return to posts index

Tony West
Re: What if - AJA Cion and ProResRAW
on Sep 13, 2019 at 1:35:47 pm

I just think the form factor of that camera was too big at a time when the tread is going smaller to fly camera's around the field with whichever stabilizer you choose.

Couple that with it's a camera that most clients have never heard of, thus won't impress them when you show up with it.

A camera purchase is a very large investment for most people and many aren't willing to take to many chances with it. Myself included. Give me a SONY.


Return to posts index

Steve Connor
Re: What if - AJA Cion and ProResRAW
on Sep 13, 2019 at 2:14:54 pm

[Tony West] "Give me a SONY."

Like the new FS9 ☺

https://pro.sony/en_GB/products/handheld-camcorders/pxw-fx9


Return to posts index


Tony West
Re: What if - AJA Cion and ProResRAW
on Sep 13, 2019 at 3:20:42 pm

[Steve Connor] "Like the new FS9 ☺"

Now you're talking brother : )


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: What if - AJA Cion and ProResRAW
on Sep 13, 2019 at 2:24:54 pm

[Tony West] "I just think the form factor of that camera was too big at a time when the tread is going smaller to fly camera's around the field with whichever stabilizer you choose"

It was intended to address the same market as an ARRI ALEXA.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: What if - AJA Cion and ProResRAW
on Sep 13, 2019 at 8:02:54 pm

I would also add that the CION is physically similar in size (and smaller than some) to an Ursa, C700, F55, or Varicam.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index


Tony West
Re: What if - AJA Cion and ProResRAW
on Sep 14, 2019 at 5:35:35 am

[Oliver Peters] "I would also add that the CION is physically similar in size (and smaller than some) to an Ursa"


Not the Ursa mini, that we build up for shoulder and strip down to fly. Same price range and makes great shots. I'm not really a super fan of BM either but between the two......

The F55 is nice but the Fs7 is everywhere these days along with that nice form factor Fs5 with the awesome that was ND. I prefer not to have to add a mattbox these days for lack on ND, but that's just me.


Return to posts index

Tony West
Re: What if - AJA Cion and ProResRAW
on Sep 14, 2019 at 5:25:08 am

[Oliver Peters] "It was intended to address the same market as an ARRI ALEXA."


That may be, but people still want you to fly the camera on most of the jobs I work. I wouldn't want to fly it.


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: What if - AJA Cion and ProResRAW
on Sep 14, 2019 at 3:08:07 pm

[Tony West] "but people still want you to fly the camera on most of the jobs I work"

Steadicam

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index


Tony West
Re: What if - AJA Cion and ProResRAW
on Sep 15, 2019 at 3:53:29 am

[Oliver Peters] "[Tony West] "but people still want you to fly the camera on most of the jobs I work"

Steadicam"


I prefer the Glidecam of the two myself. Faster to set up and smaller to get around in tight spaces but............need a lighter camera, as I was saying.

We use a lot more Ronin these days than Stedi also. That's the trend, Ronin and Movi and I wouldn't want that heavy Cion on either.


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: What if - AJA Cion and ProResRAW
on Sep 15, 2019 at 12:27:14 pm

[Tony West] "need a lighter camera, as I was saying."

I completely understand. Our DP shifted from an Alexa to an Alexa Mini, partially for size and partially for 4K. We also use EVA1 cameras to augment, as well as various DSLRs. But there are still plenty of productions that prefer or need a larger camera. For example, because of audio connections without a lot of extra rigging.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Tony West
Re: What if - AJA Cion and ProResRAW
on Sep 15, 2019 at 12:44:33 pm

[Oliver Peters] " But there are still plenty of productions that prefer or need a larger camera. For example, because of audio connections without a lot of extra rigging."

I agree with you. I think you will notice that I'm holding a larger camera in my forum pic : )

I have flown the F3 for years because I need all those connections myself. I need to add a great deal of stuff to most cameras out there to get what I want and so for me if I start off too heavy I'm gonna end up with a boat anchor. I'm no spring chicken : )

All the different tools have their fit, I just need the most flexibility I can get out of my tools that I personally buy.


Return to posts index


Oliver Peters
Re: What if - AJA Cion and ProResRAW
on Sep 15, 2019 at 12:57:36 pm

[Tony West] "I need to add a great deal of stuff to most cameras out there to get what I want and so for me if I start off too heavy I'm gonna end up with a boat anchor. I'm no spring chicken : )"

LOL. Here's a BTS still from the video I did using the CION. The DP opted to do the quick handhelds with the rods and everything still rigged. He's a young dude ☺

https://digitalfilms.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/df0516_cion_prod_2.jpg

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: What if - AJA Cion and ProResRAW
on Sep 15, 2019 at 4:12:36 pm

BTW - Here's the actual short video:



- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Tony West
Re: What if - AJA Cion and ProResRAW
on Sep 16, 2019 at 1:27:09 am

That's cool Oliver. Thanks for the pic


Return to posts index


Oliver Peters
Re: What if - AJA Cion and ProResRAW
on Sep 19, 2019 at 12:15:15 am

[Tony West] "I have flown the F3 for years because I need all those connections myself"

BTW - here's a look at the new Sony FX9. Very nice color science in these test clips.

http://philipbloom.net/blog/fx9/

https://www.cinema5d.com/sony-fx9-announced-full-frame-fast-hybrid-autofocu...

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Tony West
Re: What if - AJA Cion and ProResRAW
on Sep 19, 2019 at 5:05:48 am

[Oliver Peters] "BTW - here's a look at the new Sony FX9. Very nice color science in these test clips.

http://philipbloom.net/blog/fx9/

https://www.cinema5d.com/sony-fx9-announced-full-frame-fast-hybrid-autofocu....."


Thanks for posting. It looks very impressive so far. It's what I have been wanting SONY to do for a while. Put out a little more camera with what most of us need and I'll pay a little more for it.

I have to give it to SONY, they are pretty good at listing to complaints and addressing them.

I never thought I'd see Gen in and out on another new camera.

The images from Bloom look great.


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: What if - AJA Cion and ProResRAW
on Sep 16, 2019 at 6:27:16 am

Things that bugged me about the Cion were basically twofold. HEAT and DUST.
At the NAB where it was introduced, I remember noticing the front of the camera was a big vented grill, presumably to shed sensor heat.
Since I was living and shooting in Arizona at the time, that was a pretty huge red flag for me. Big holes in a camera case maybe good for cooling, but my brain processed that and thought even if heat isn’t an issue with this design DUST will be.
So I moved on.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2019 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]