APPLE FINAL CUT PRO: Apple Final Cut Pro X FCPX Debates FCP Legacy FCP Tutorials

Thanks Apple!

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Bill Davis
Thanks Apple!
on May 15, 2019 at 12:18:58 am

Just reading some of the posts on other forums about the iP -licensing issues regarding embedded tech in Premiere
when my email pinged with a link to fat digital check for a recent gig.

A gig was executed rapidly and smoothly thanks to FCP X.
Which has caused me to be EXTREMELY grateful in a few areas.

First I OWN this excellent software, for which I haven’t been charged another dime since my initial purchase 7 years ago.
Second, I now “own” the accumulated expertise I’ve built over the last seven years in the operation of that software. And finally, one of my projects this month required me to access content from a project I built in X about 5 years ago. Less than 15 minutes after I realized I needed that archive footage, I had it updated and in a fresh 10.4.6 storyline and ready to work with. And I expect that if that should happen again in another 5 years - the same will be true.

When Apple famously “burned down” FCP Legacy and gutted the old QuickTime frameworks in favor of AV Foundation and the Core technologies, some of my contacts who are much smarter than I am said part of the reason was because Apple wanted to move away from being as tied to outside of Apple licenses IP tech it didn’t control as they moved forward.

Whether that’s a factor here or not I really don’t understand nor care about.

What I DO care about is that every time I go to launch X and start to work these days, my expectations of a fast, smooth and responsive work session are consistently being met and exceeded.

And that helps me succeed.

So once again, I find myself being grateful.

They surely aren’t now, nor will ever be perfect in their design and execution.
But lately, these tools have been pretty darn great for me.

Just sayin’

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Shane Ross
Re: Thanks Apple!
on May 15, 2019 at 1:44:43 am

[Bill Davis] "First I OWN this excellent software, for which I haven’t been charged another dime since my initial purchase 7 years ago."

As has been pointed out in the past, by several people....no, we don't OWN the software. Even when it wasn't subscription, we didn't own it, we purchased the right to use it. Pretty much all software, from what I've been told. So yeah, while it feels nice to think that we OWN this software.

I OWN Avid Media Composer...and do pay for upgrade fees, to pay for such things as R&D and tech support, as they don't have iPhones and iPads to suppliment that business. Oh, and I also OWN Resolve, which I've also never paid a fee to update, although not sure how they manage to afford that. Although, no, I don't OWN them....as stated above.

And boy do I get my work done and get paid a hella-ton of money when I do....with a big fat old fashioned check. Seems you can get that no matter what NLE you use.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Shane Ross
Re: Thanks Apple!
on May 15, 2019 at 1:58:12 am

Except that I don't "own" Avid or Resolve. Again, it's that funky software license thing where we don't own it, we only own the right to use it. Yes, even FCX.

Shane
Little Frog Post
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Michael Gissing
Re: Thanks Apple!
on May 15, 2019 at 2:07:58 am

Whether we license or rent software, the things that matter to some are trivial to another. As someone that has to take projects from all NLEs into Resolve & Fairlight for finishing, the things that all software vendors change or retire matter.

Luckily the various iterations of xml that FCPX has been through has been closely and rapidly deployed by Blackmagic. Lucky for Apple, third parties have picked up the slack. No longer supporting QT on Windows by Apple was fixed by Pr & Resolve. So far the things that might have annoyed me that others may not even be aware of have all been fixed by other NLE makers.

So thanks all those NLE software teams that fix the annoying things that other do and keep on giving us amazing new features and performance. For me that doesn't really include Apple however.


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Bill Davis
Re: Thanks Apple!
on May 15, 2019 at 3:23:57 am

[Shane Ross] "Even when it wasn't subscription, we didn't own it, we purchased the right to use it. "

Yeah, Shane, but that view is splitting hairs to me.
When I paid for X, they allowed me to install and archive a fully functioning program that I could then use essentially in perpetuity.

When you’re stuck in the rental model, if you don’t keep paying, they have the right to cut you off from the enabling technology that gives you access to your OWN intellectual property — unless you start paying them again.

That’s a VERY different kettle of fish to my thinking.

The reason for Adobe’s change might be totally legit IP and licensing issues.

But the EFFECT of making all the legacy “permanent license” software basically illegal to use going forward - is that anyone with a library of Adobe work done at anytime in the past - is being forced to update into their “pay to play” ecosystem or they lose full access to their own historical IP work going forward.

And that’s just not how the Apple or Black Magic ecosystems operate.

Different business models. One that ensures (as much as possible) customer access to their creative work in perpetuity without any additional cost - and one that definitely does not.

Ergo, my extra smidgen of happiness tonight!

Which you haven’t diminished it one iota, my friend!

Have a great week!

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Thanks Apple!
on May 15, 2019 at 11:21:47 am

Well, except the issue at hand is AC3, which Apple also used in the “legacy” products. If you are currently using these to create product that utilizes AC3, you may well be in violation of the same issues. Regardless of whether or not you “bought” the FCP bundle. I don’t know that for a fact, as that’s for lawyers to decide. But in theory, it’s a concern.

What is the status of AC3 in FCPX?

Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Thanks Apple!
on May 15, 2019 at 3:26:51 pm

I would also venture to add that if you purchased a used copy of the legacy suite on e-bay and not from Apple or an authorized reseller, then any licenses included with the software are not valid for you; therefore all product you produce with that software is in violation. Such is the reality of "owning" software.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Thanks Apple!
on May 15, 2019 at 3:34:05 pm

[Bill Davis] "And that’s just not how the Apple or Black Magic ecosystems operate."

Actually that is how Apple operates in a way. When they cut the cord with FCP7, they also cut the cord with a number of 3rd party technologies that they deemed too old, no matter how useful.

There are plenty of stories of applications purchased through the App Store that have been dropped by Apple, leaving those customers out in the cold.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Shane Ross
Re: Thanks Apple!
on May 15, 2019 at 5:16:19 pm

[Bill Davis] "Different business models. One that ensures (as much as possible) customer access to their creative work in perpetuity without any additional cost - and one that definitely does not."

Hmmm...I see how Apple allows us to do that, by cutting loose a hugely popular editing application completely, and all support for it, and making a completely new one with absolutely ZERO pathway for getting projects from the old one to the new one. Zero. And they had zero plan to do that. They left that up to third party vendors to figure out, instead of helping their extremely loyal user base transition.

"Oh, but sometimes you have to totally burn down the house and start over in order to make the next great leap in technology!" Sorry, tired of hearing that crap. There was a means to convert projects, as evidenced in a third party app coming out to do that...but APPLE ITSELF couldn't be bothered to do it. Just "F*** YOU...that's old, this is new, this is better, get over it."

Yeah...Apple was SO accommodating and so loyal to it's user base.

I think Adobe's "rental" policy is completely stupid, and I don't subscribe to it. My kids do, but because they HAVE to. Photoshop is a requirement at art school, so they are chained in that manner. Personally, I like Avid's way of "Buy a perpetual license, pay a fee to pay for upgrades and tech support...and those are available to us. But if you stop, you are stuck with the version you have, BUT IT STILL WORKS!" That I like.

Yeah, Apple has made an app that is amazing and great and PERFECT for so many many applications. And is what they needed to do. HOW they did it, sorry, that plus their history of killing things like SHAKE, make them highly untrustworthy. Glad you like them, but I trust them about as far as I can throw them.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Herb Sevush
Re: Thanks Apple!
on May 15, 2019 at 11:27:37 am

[Bill Davis] "my email pinged with a link to fat digital check for a recent gig.

A gig was executed rapidly and smoothly thanks to FCP X.
Which has caused me to be EXTREMELY grateful in a few areas. "


I also just got a check for a gig, although it was slender enough to make it through my mailbox, but still I am grateful for -

My feet, which cost me nothing but maintenance, and which I own in perpetuity, and without which I would be unable to walk to work. So just a shout out to them 10 little piggies, and you know who you are.

Thank you.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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greg janza
Re: Thanks Apple!
on May 15, 2019 at 5:44:08 pm

Bill, you're teetering on the brink of being a spam poster here.

What is the point of these pro-FCPX productivity posts? Are you that petty? Are you attempting anything other than just throwing fuel on a very dead fire of debate? No wonder things are quiet here in this forum.

The fact that you were able to retrieve a project five years old is great. Does that really have any relevance in most post-production environments? no. A five year old project for most is ancient, out of date and irrelevant.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/tmprods
tallmanproductions.net


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Shane Ross
Re: Thanks Apple!
on May 15, 2019 at 6:07:56 pm

[greg janza] "The fact that you were able to retrieve a project five years old is great. Does that really have any relevance in most post-production environments? no. A five year old project for most is ancient, out of date and irrelevant."

Well, not really. I've recently had to revive a 10 year old project, one shot mainly with P2 footage, so that I could export sections of it for use on another project (and get the raw footage used in the cut by accessing the sequence and revealing in the finder on the drive). And a couple years ago, I had to dig into a project that's 16 years old, all shot in DV. To make a couple changes so they could sell that project overseas. There's a good reason I keep my 2008 MacPro up and running, with 10.6.8 and FCS3 on it.

Some feature docs take many years to edit. And some get revived for a variety of reasons.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Bill Davis
Re: Thanks Apple!
on May 16, 2019 at 12:59:12 am

I don’t think expressing an opinion is what “spam” really means, but that’s not for me to say.

Look, that post was simply an expression of how I freaking FELT - yesterday. Which was appreciative and grateful. I’ve been editing to make my living in whole or in part for nearly 40 years now.

NOBODY complains when people on this board have a bad experience and come here and vent about how their experience made them feel, do they?

That’s what BUILT this place.

So excuse me if I think it’s incredibly disingenuous for you guys to get your pants in a scrunch simply because I had a nice morning and mentally linked that to a feeling of satisfaction because my recent work situation.

AGAIN - people come here and BITCH and it’s no problem.
So please tell me why the $&@“ coming in to say something nice about a successful work experience causes this much pushback?

You people are just flat out WEIRD.

No wonder most of thetop FCP X users hang out elsewhere nowadays.

The pissyness factor here is seriously off the charts.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Shane Ross
Re: Thanks Apple!
on May 16, 2019 at 3:48:00 am

Well, I too am happy I don't rely on Adobe products.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Bill Davis
Re: Thanks Apple!
on May 16, 2019 at 5:32:06 am

[Shane Ross] "Well, I too am happy I don't rely on Adobe products.

Shane "


See, a nice positive reply. Was that so hard?
😉

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Shane Ross
Re: Thanks Apple!
on May 16, 2019 at 2:24:37 pm

No. It was just that your post seemed so... How do I put this? Tough to put it politely. Cult-like. It wasn't just "I'm so glad I use this, I only paid once and it's paid for itself many times." It was like, "THANK THE ALL KNOWING APPLE FOR BEING SO TOTALLY AND UTTERLY AMAZING! It really is the software provided by GOD!" You might not have meant it like that, but it sure came off that way.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Oliver Peters
Re: Thanks Apple!
on May 16, 2019 at 2:44:33 pm

http://www.fcp.co/final-cut-pro/articles/1959-michael-cioni-do-i-have-stock...



- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Shane Ross
Re: Thanks Apple!
on May 16, 2019 at 7:03:00 pm

I thought that the iMac and iMac Pro were both WELL SUITED for FCP-X...and that an eGPU would help with FCP-X users that want to finish in Resolve...so that's all they really cared to do. WHO NEEDS this tower anyway...other than people wanting to use OTHER editing apps, and not FCP-X? And why would Apple care to cater to them at all, because all they really care about is FCP-X, and the current computers work GREAT for that?

While I do know that it's coming, I'm very skeptical about what it will be....and who it will be made to serve.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Oliver Peters
Re: Thanks Apple!
on May 16, 2019 at 7:40:19 pm

[Shane Ross] "I thought that the iMac and iMac Pro were both WELL SUITED for FCP-X...and that an eGPU would help with FCP-X users that want to finish in Resolve..

The iMac and iMac Pro actually work well with Premiere, MC, and Resolve - not just FCPX. The eGPU doesn't necessarily help much with a higher-powered machine, unless you have a lesser internal GPU than what's in the eGPU.

That's changed a bit since Mojave was introduced, because Apple straightened out how you tap into the eGPU at the OS level. That's something Adobe has taken advantage of between the time the eGPU and the eGPU Pro were released. Premiere Pro works MUCH better with eGPUs now than when they were first introduced. Typically, though, it's an either-or situation and not a combination of both GPUs. So what tends to happen when you pick eGPU as the preference, is it does the heavy lifting and the internal GPU loafs.

But remember, using an eGPU isn't simply about performance. It also has to do with taking the load off of the internal GPU when you want to run a number of high-res displays or use stereo 3D devices. An eGPU is a great add-on if you work with a Mac mini or a 13" MBP. It's less of an advantage with full-loaded iMac or iMac Pro.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Herb Sevush
Re: Thanks Apple!
on May 16, 2019 at 11:24:21 pm

Michael Cioni defines Stockholm Syndrome as:

"A survival strategy that forms a bond during intimate time spent together."

A more accurate definition is:

A survival strategy ( by prisoners of kidnapping) that forms a bond (between victim and captor) during intimate time spent together (in forced captivity).

Which leads me to a specific view of Cioni's motivations (and they are all parenthetical.) If Cioni is content to argue that it's OK to view Apple as a bunch of thieves and kidnappers, who am I to argue.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Bill Davis
Re: Thanks Apple!
on May 18, 2019 at 5:11:53 am

Well, I spent about 5 straight hours with Cioni at the LACPUG where he presented - and oddly, he’s still cutting on FCP X.
In fact his entire presentation was basically re-imagining the Voiceover tool as a simple multi-track recorder for music tracking and sweetening.
I’d link to it, but the last Past Meeting on the website is Nov, 3018 — and YouTube doesn’t appear to have it either.
I guess Dean’s been busy?

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Thanks Apple!
on May 18, 2019 at 1:14:38 pm

[Bill Davis] "and oddly, he’s still cutting on FCP X.
In fact his entire presentation was basically re-imagining the Voiceover tool as a simple multi-track recorder for music tracking and sweetening"


I think you mean this:



It should be noted that Michael is talking about personal use as a DIYer. Certainly Light Iron relies on a lot of very 'heavy' (non-Apple) iron in its professional work. Although LI's colorists have graded films edited with FCPX.

I would counter though, that once you get deeper into bussing and effects processing, FCPX is quite possibly the worst audio option. Certainly Logic Pro X is a far, superior choice. FCPX is great for the simple stuff, but you quickly outrun your skis.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Bill Davis
Re: Thanks Apple!
on May 20, 2019 at 1:10:25 pm

No, that’s a produced piece.
At the LACPUG he did a live scoring session on stage using FCP X as a basic multitrack recorder. Throughout he discussed many of the reasons he likes working that way.

And honestly, comparing ANY NLE with dedicated sound production tools is a bit like comparing a pocket knife to a full Chefs knife set. You do full time food prep all day long - a full range of quality knives are considered essential.

But NOBODY carries a Chefs Set around on their daily errands - and you can cut, dice and cleve a pretty astonishing number of things if you have a good pocket knife with you when the situation arises that you need one.

That’s all I’m saying. 😊

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Michael Gissing
Re: Thanks Apple!
on May 20, 2019 at 1:15:47 pm

[Bill Davis]"comparing ANY NLE with dedicated sound production tools is a bit like comparing a pocket knife to a full Chefs knife set"

Perhaps you should have a play with Resolve and see what a fully fledged DAW inside an NLE, VFX Grade tool looks like. The Fairlight page is about 90% of the stand alone Fairlight DAW which is arguably the best DAW. To have something nearly that good inside a free NLE is astounding.


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Bill Davis
Re: Thanks Apple!
on May 22, 2019 at 10:53:43 pm

[Michael Gissing] "To have something nearly that good inside a free NLE is astounding.
"


Oddly, I feel the exact same way about the full-fledged range based keyword database and Roles systems inside X.

And while I can purchase excellent grading tools for grading work via FCP X - (including porting my projects into a Resolve for grading!) - I cant really reproduce the instantaneous integrated “clip call up” magic of X inside anything else.

So it’s kinda a matter of where you feel the need for the extra strength.

I EDIT before I color. So for me. The stronger “assembly” approach of X wins that one.

Plus, for me the penalty of using Tracks again is simply too great a step backwards. I *think* magnetically now. So the idea I’d need to go back to disconnected assemblies of video, audio and text snippets that I can’t compose into magnetically aligned assemblies just won’t fly any more.

To each their own!

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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greg janza
Re: Thanks Apple!
on May 22, 2019 at 11:26:15 pm

"And while I can purchase excellent grading tools for grading work via FCP X - (including porting my projects into a Resolve for grading!) - I cant really reproduce the instantaneous integrated “clip call up” magic of X inside anything else."

Once a project gets to the color or audio mixing stage there's very little need for instantaneous clip call up so it's a bit confusing as to why that's a plus in your eyes.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/tmprods
tallmanproductions.net


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Michael Gissing
Re: Thanks Apple!
on May 22, 2019 at 11:31:16 pm

I guess you missed the point of my reply to your post Bill. You implied no NLE had hi grade DAW tools inside by comparing NLE sound tools to pocket knives instead of Chef's knives in dedicated DAWs.

Do you agree that Resolve has a Chefs knife quality grade and sound tools inside? I'm just asking that you look at what is on offer before voicing assumptions as to what other NLEs offer in the DAW area.

None of us need reminding of your position on X but you specifically made the statement "And honestly, comparing ANY NLE with dedicated sound production tools is a bit like comparing a pocket knife to a full Chefs knife set". Care to comment on what I was responding to? If you quote me and then give another testimonial rather than answering my post, it isn't a debate.


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Tony West
Re: Thanks Apple!
on May 23, 2019 at 2:28:44 pm

Personally I would have stuck closer to the actual points that Micheal was making in that video (I'm guessing he made similar ones on stage) rather than the knife analogy. In the video he pointed out that 1. There were profession sound tools in X and 2. That he likes how easy it is for him to slip sections around in the X timeline making it easy for him to see how the sound plays with the picture. I agree with both those points and they are hard to argue against.

I would also make the case that what he was dealing with was not "simple" audio stuff. I would argue that most people who earn a living editing never touch some of the tools in that video. They likely spend most of their time fixing background noise, distortion and just having levels that don't blowout the person who is speaking.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Thanks Apple!
on May 23, 2019 at 2:56:28 pm

[Tony West] "That he likes how easy it is for him to slip sections around in the X timeline making it easy for him to see how the sound plays with the picture"

Although I am critical of audio mixing in FCPX from time to time, his use of the Auditions function for evaluating multiple musical performance takes was pretty cool.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Herb Sevush
Re: Thanks Apple!
on May 18, 2019 at 1:37:07 pm
Last Edited By Herb Sevush on May 18, 2019 at 1:38:06 pm

[Bill Davis] "Well, I spent about 5 straight hours with Cioni at the LACPUG where he presented - and oddly, he’s still cutting on FCP X. "

Bill, do you think I'm surprised that Cioni is using FCPX? I was merely pointing out that he was purposefully distorting the meaning of language in order to make his sales pitch.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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