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Oh dear.

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Bill Davis
Oh dear.
on May 5, 2019 at 3:12:15 pm

It was always foolish, IMO, to think that decoupling price elasticity from choice wasn’t going to eventually lead the bean counters to do exactly what they are paid to do.

Maximize financial return.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/2/18526985/adobe-creative-cloud-lightroom-p...

If your work has all been IP silo’d in CC - what can you do but accept the hike, or walk away from all that value you’ve painstakingly layered atop your own IP?

Sigh.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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David Mathis
Re: Oh dear.
on May 5, 2019 at 3:48:19 pm

Before everyone gets into an uproar the $9.99 plan is still available:

https://www.adobe.com/creativecloud/plans.html?promoid=NV3KR7S1&mv=other

There was a discussion about this in a Facebook photography group just last week. I have no idea what Adobe was thinking with this price test scenario. The fact is the less expensive plan is still available, at least for now. Should they decide to increase the price and end the lower price plan subscribers will take notice. Will there be a mass of people jumping ship? Anything is possible. There are alternatives out there and that can cut into the Adobe revenue stream. We all know a price increase was coming but doubling the rent is not going to make many subscribers happy. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Oh dear.
on May 5, 2019 at 5:19:45 pm

Adobe has stated that they are experimenting with the pricing structure. You'll note that the more expensive plan includes a lot more online ("cloud") storage space. That's the direction many photographers are headed (at least the amateur photographers), so I suspect Adobe is trying to respond to that change in the market. Just as there's Lightroom Classic (local storage) and Lightroom CC (cloud-only storage).

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Dominic Deacon
Re: Oh dear.
on May 5, 2019 at 7:27:26 pm
Last Edited By Dominic Deacon on May 5, 2019 at 7:40:57 pm

The schadenfruede is strong. As mentioned above the old plans are still there. This is just upping the 50mb included in the old plan to 1tb and charging an extra $10 for the priveledge. Which I can't say I'm sold on but someone out there maybe would want that.

However, a price rise eventually is inevitable and I can't say it bothers me and I don't feel tied to Adobe by my intellectual property. Other programs can open PSDs without issue and old photoshop files are not really something you go back to a huge amount anyway. I guess sometimes I'll jump back to one to grab some colour grading but that's once a month and I wouldn't cry if I didn't have access. And it's not Adobe will just dump Lightroom as Apple did with their alternative in that space.

Frankly, I could jump ship at any time if there was somewhere to jump ship to. In the case of photoshop I don't think there is for my uses.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Oh dear.
on May 6, 2019 at 6:13:08 pm

One interesting thing is that when the change originally hit, the new price was on the first price package page and the cheaper option a bit buried. I guess Adobe responded to the flak, because they put the original price back to being front and center with both prices now on the comparison page.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Claude Lyneis
Re: Oh dear.
on May 7, 2019 at 5:22:52 am

When I looked at it a month ago, they were listing Photoshop and Lightroom (not Lightroom Classic) for $10/month and anything with Classic in it at $20/month. What they called Lightroom seemed to be a dumbed down version for phones and iPads. It was very confusing. Fortunately I own Lightroom 6 and was eventually able to upgrade to 6.14. Sometime soon they will figure out a way to kill that. I love Lightroom Classic, but would hate spending $20 of month to rent it.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Oh dear.
on May 7, 2019 at 12:10:52 pm

[Claude Lyneis] "What they called Lightroom seemed to be a dumbed down version for phones and iPads"

There are two current versions of Lightroom. Lightroom Classic and Lightroom CC. The Classic version allows you to save files locally. The CC version makes up upload the original files to the cloud. Features are similar between the two and are evolving. In some cases CC has features that Classic doesn't, but also it's the other way around. Granted it's purely speculation, but anything named 'Classic' doesn't feel like it has a long-term future. We'll have to see what happens as the two feature sets get closer to parity.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Lee Doucet
Re: Oh dear.
on May 18, 2019 at 11:08:32 pm

Both of those plans were always available. So I'm not sure what the issue is... Is the issue which one Adobe defaults to showing potential customers?

Both the $9.99 and 1TB $19.99 photography plans have always been available as different choices... for years.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Oh dear.
on May 18, 2019 at 11:13:52 pm

[Lee Doucet] "Both of those plans were always available. So I'm not sure what the issue is..."

I think this all started because the default changed to only showing the $20 option and that was picked up by some of the photography sites. The $10 option was buried deeper in the site. Then after the uproar, Adobe seems to have changed the site back.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Richard Herd
Re: Oh dear.
on May 6, 2019 at 9:21:45 pm

[Bill Davis] "decoupling price elasticity from choice wasn’t going to eventually lead the bean counters to do exactly what they are paid to do."

What bean counters do...over estimate value and over estimate quality.


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David Lawrence
Re: Oh dear - Then there's this...
on May 14, 2019 at 3:58:18 pm

https://gizmodo.com/adobe-warns-using-old-creative-cloud-apps-might-get-you...

Yeah, a software subscription model is sooooo much better for the customer, lol!

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Oliver Peters
Re: Oh dear - Then there's this...
on May 14, 2019 at 4:53:35 pm

This appears to stem from an ongoing dispute with Dolby that affects any company who included the AC3 codec under previous licensing agreements. The same thing has happened with Avid Media Composer licenses.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Oh dear - Then there's this...
on May 15, 2019 at 2:11:15 am

[Oliver Peters] "This appears to stem from an ongoing dispute with Dolby that affects any company who included the AC3 codec under previous licensing agreements. The same thing has happened with Avid Media Composer licenses."

I'm reading that the final AC3 patent(s) expired in 2017. Do you have anymore info/insight onto what the hangup might be?


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Oliver Peters
Re: Oh dear - Then there's this...
on May 15, 2019 at 11:28:21 am

I don’t have any specific knowledge. The speculation is that the lawsuit boils down to properly estimating numbers of licenses in the subscription model. Not because of subscription itself, but rather the fact that CC is a selection of apps where you can use a few or all. So calculating how many users actually use the specific apps with this technology becomes difficult.

Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Oh dear - Then there's this...
on May 15, 2019 at 4:45:20 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Not because of subscription itself, but rather the fact that CC is a selection of apps where you can use a few or all. So calculating how many users actually use the specific apps with this technology becomes difficult."

But Avid presumably befell the same fate and MC is not a collection of apps like CC.

Maybe it's not that Adobe offers a collection of apps, but that Adobe, and Avid, continue to distribute past versions of their respective applications to their customers at no extra cost? That might explain why there is a hard cut off date. Maybe the original Dolby deal was for X number of years and now that the agreement is over Adobe and Avid didn't want to continue to pay to cover old versions of the apps? Or maybe Dolby tried to jack up the price by saying, "Hey, now you are offering six versions of your NLE instead of just one so we are going to charge you a separate fee for each NLE you continue to distribute to your customers"?

There would be a bit of irony in the back catalog offered by Avid an Adobe turing from an amazing selling point to a financial liability.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Oh dear - Then there's this...
on May 15, 2019 at 5:10:26 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "But Avid presumably befell the same fate and MC is not a collection of apps like CC."

To my knowledge, Dolby is in a lawsuit with Adobe, but not with Avid. Maybe Avid is simply playing it safe. But, of course, all of this is simply speculation ☺

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Oh dear - Then there's this...
on May 15, 2019 at 6:29:05 pm

[Oliver Peters] "To my knowledge, Dolby is in a lawsuit with Adobe, but not with Avid. Maybe Avid is simply playing it safe. But, of course, all of this is simply speculation ☺"

Speculation... is what we do here. 😉

I'm just trying to look for common ground between Avid and Adobe in this situation.

Adobe offers a suite of apps, Avid does not.

Adobe offers a subscription, Avid offers subscriptions and perpetual licenses and *both* are impacted (so it doesn't seem to be a subscription-based issue).

What both companies do offer is a back catalog to older versions of their software, and this is a relatively new thing. Typically the older versions disappear from store shelves (real and virtual) and the only places to get them is 2nd hand. Hence my theory that the issue at hand is somehow related to software distribution windows and so Avid and Adobe are officially closing the window on the older software by pulling it off the shelves.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Oh dear - Then there's this...
on May 15, 2019 at 6:51:20 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "Adobe offers a suite of apps, Avid does not"

Well, not exactly. But remember they have a ton of products across live/studio/post audio, video editing, broadcast, news, media management, virtual sets, etc. So its hard to say how this is calculated. I notice in Avid Link that AC3 is still there, but as a separate option.

[Andrew Kimery] "Hence my theory that the issue at hand is somehow related to software distribution windows and so Avid and Adobe are officially closing the window on the older software by pulling it off the shelves"

That seems reasonable. Not unlike another company pulling its products off the shelf ☺

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Oh dear - Then there's this...
on May 15, 2019 at 7:36:32 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Well, not exactly. But remember they have a ton of products across live/studio/post audio, video editing, broadcast, news, media management, virtual sets, etc. So its hard to say how this is calculated. I notice in Avid Link that AC3 is still there, but as a separate option."

Right, I should've specified MC instead of saying Avid in general.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Oh dear - Then there's this...
on May 18, 2019 at 1:18:41 pm
Last Edited By Oliver Peters on May 18, 2019 at 1:19:39 pm

Some of the folks on the Avid-L2 list have commented on receiving a clarification e-mail. The gist is that if you purchased CS6 as a product before CC and have a separate End User License Agreement for it, then you are in the clear. However, if you downloaded CS6 products through CC, then you are subject to the CC End User License Agreement. In that case, the notification does apply to those CS6 (and earlier) users. I haven't personally seen these e-mails, so take it FWIW.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Steve Connor
Re: Oh dear - Then there's this...
on May 16, 2019 at 6:07:01 am

[David Lawrence] "https://gizmodo.com/adobe-warns-using-old-creative-cloud-apps-might-get-you...

Yeah, a software subscription model is sooooo much better for the customer, lol!"


Hi David, welcome back :)


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Oliver Peters
Re: Oh dear - Then there's this...
on May 16, 2019 at 3:25:11 pm

BTW - This post muddies the waters even more if you bought perpetual versions.

https://www.provideocoalition.com/premiere-pro-6-after-effects-11-ps-13-did...

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Oh dear - Then there's this...
on May 16, 2019 at 4:42:35 pm

[Oliver Peters] "BTW - This post muddies the waters even more if you bought perpetual versions.

https://www.provideocoalition.com/premiere-pro-6-after-effects-11-ps-13-did.....
"


I wonder how much of this is legit vs Adobe doing an extremely conservative CYA move because there's a 0.0000000000001% chance a patent troll might file a lawsuit against an end user someday maybe?

I mean, patent trolls have sued/threatened to sue people over everything from using Wifi to using the scan-to-email feature on all-in-one printers.


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Shawn Miller
Re: Oh dear - Then there's this...
on May 16, 2019 at 5:05:30 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "I mean, patent trolls have sued/threatened to sue people over everything from using Wifi to using the scan-to-email feature on all-in-one printers."

My favorite one of all time was Personal Audio, LLC’s patent claim over podcasting...

https://www.theverge.com/2017/8/8/16110766/podcast-patent-troll-appeal-fede...



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