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You are the first beta-test forum of the new system

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Ronald Lindeboom
You are the first beta-test forum of the new system
on Nov 12, 2018 at 8:23:12 pm

I just got off the phone with our head of engineering, Rob Elder, and he told me that the new COW starts with you. This forum has been chosen to get the first swing of the bat and we look forward to your feedback, reports, and criticisms. We hand-selected this forum because we want a group who isn't afraid to speak up. We are counting on you to help us in this transition. It's a big step for us and we could use your feedback and support.

In the next day or two, when you log in to this forum, you will see a whole new look for the Creative COW forums. It is a preview of what's ahead and it is exclusive to this forum, which is filled with deliberate, thoughtful, intelligent but intense people. We welcome your thoughts on it all.

We hope you enjoy the look ahead. It will be live shortly.

Best regards,

Ronald Lindeboom
CEO, Creative COW LLC

Creativity is a process wherein the student and the teacher are located in the same individual.


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Mark Raudonis
Re: You are the first beta-test forum of the new system
on Nov 12, 2018 at 10:36:08 pm

[Ronald Lindeboom] "we want a group who isn't afraid to speak up"

Uh oh! Careful what you wish for!!!! You'll definitely get it here!

Looking forward to seeing the new look.



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Michael Gissing
Re: You are the first beta-test forum of the new system
on Nov 12, 2018 at 10:43:23 pm

We get to debate the debate forum. It might end up like Inception.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: You are the first beta-test forum of the new system
on Nov 12, 2018 at 11:24:45 pm

[Michael Gissing] "We get to debate the debate forum. It might end up like Inception."

lol

This is a cool surprise, Ron. I can't wait to check it out, and like any good beta-tester, try to break it in every way possible! ;)


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David Mathis
Re: You are the first beta-test forum of the new system
on Nov 12, 2018 at 11:27:36 pm

Should be exciting to see what the new forum looks like. Hopefully the feedback in here will not be like a microphone in front of a speaker. Ouch!


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Herb Sevush
Re: You are the first beta-test forum of the new system
on Nov 13, 2018 at 1:16:12 pm

Over on the "Business and Career Building" forum there's a very interesting thread detailing the reasons for the "new Look."

https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/17/883710

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Paul Neumann
Re: You are the first beta-test forum of the new system
on Nov 13, 2018 at 4:02:18 pm

Pretty sure for me it will be the online equivalent of walking into the garage and then thinking, "What the hell did I come out here for?"


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Steve Connor
Re: You are the first beta-test forum of the new system
on Nov 13, 2018 at 8:12:22 pm

Awesome! Waiting with bated breath :)


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Mark Suszko
Re: You are the first beta-test forum of the new system
on Nov 13, 2018 at 9:07:13 pm

I can't comment: they made me sign an NDA... I think. Or maybe that was just a ploy to shut me up....


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Ronald Lindeboom
Re: You are the first beta-test forum of the new system
on Nov 14, 2018 at 10:40:59 pm

We are more than fine with people being quite direct and even acerbic. We are not interested in people telling us what we want to hear, we are wanting to hear the things we likely don't want to hear but need to. So thank you. As we said, there's a reason we chose you guys. We know you are smart and that you will be the hardest bunch in the COW to please. And therein lies the test. 😃

We are working through some issues and will have it live shortly.

Thank you all.

Best regards,

Ronald Lindeboom
CEO, Creative COW LLC

Creativity is a process wherein the student and the teacher are located in the same individual.


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David Mathis
Re: You are the first beta-test forum of the new system
on Nov 15, 2018 at 1:03:36 am

Looking forward to the new look!


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Ronald Lindeboom
Re: You are the first beta-test forum of the new system
on Nov 16, 2018 at 7:34:50 pm

We have been working through some issues and are making great progress.

Today, we've been doing some tweaking (not twerking) on the look and feel of the forums and we are hoping to have it live very shortly.

Best regards,

Ronald Lindeboom
CEO, Creative COW LLC

Creativity is a process wherein the student and the teacher are located in the same individual.


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David Mathis
Re: You are the first beta-test forum of the new system
on Nov 16, 2018 at 7:43:54 pm

Thank you for the update! Looking forward to the new forum and look. I will definitely be more active here. Less drama, more signal and a great group to be part of.


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greg janza
Re: You are the first beta-test forum of the new system
on Nov 17, 2018 at 6:25:33 pm

It may be way too late in the revamp process to bring this up but it seems essential for the new forums to have a much cleaner response feature set. Facebook's interface works very well for notification as well as lay out and I think that's partly why professional groups have developed quickly there. It also bears mentioning that actual Adobe employees are actively posting and responding to member queries on those forums. And another benefit of the Facebook model is that when needed it's very easy to have DM's with individuals. Tim has eloquently laid out why DM isn't an option here but I think the new forums will need to mimic the efficiency of the Facebook model overall.

Windows 10 Pro | i7-5820k CPU | 64 gigs RAM | NvidiaGeForceGTX970 | Blackmagic Decklink 4k Mini Monitor |
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David Mathis
Re: You are the first beta-test forum of the new system
on Nov 17, 2018 at 8:08:24 pm

I use the DM feature as needed. Usually this is done to communicate with other admins and moderators. I also use to chat with members as a moderator tool (thankfully not that often) or to discuss any topics a member may not wish to discuss in a group. A feature like that would be useful in here. The problem with Facebook groups is no one uses the search feature or troll the group. For me the COW is a more friendly and safe platform. Facebook is too full of trash.


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Bret Williams
Re: You are the first beta-test forum of the new system
on Nov 19, 2018 at 12:12:58 am

I don't think you can really monetize a facebook group can you?

_______________________________________________________________________
http://BretFX.com FCPX Plugins & Templates for Editors & Motion Graphics Artists
Hang Tag http://bretfx.com/product/hang-tag
Overshoot Text http://bretfx.com/product/overshoot-text/
Outliner http://bretfx.com/product/outliner/
Clock Maker http://bretfx.com/product/bretfx-clock-maker/


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David Mathis
Re: You are the first beta-test forum of the new system
on Nov 19, 2018 at 12:20:03 am

Bret Williams
"I don't think you can really monetize a facebook group can you?"

As for as I know the answer is no.


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Dominic Deacon
Re: You are the first beta-test forum of the new system
on Nov 19, 2018 at 6:02:31 am

[Bret Williams] "I don't think you can really monetize a facebook group can you?"

I believe you can now. I think this rule was changed recently. I am a member of a group called Melbourne Creative Network and they recently barred all new members unless a $10 fee was paid. There was a fair bit of outcry but it was claimed that this was a recent addition to Facebooks terms and was all above board. I assume that was true.


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Bret Williams
Re: You are the first beta-test forum of the new system
on Nov 19, 2018 at 8:05:56 am

I was thinking more of advertising. There would be little point in the COW moving to FB. And the COW is so much more than just the forums. There would be no way to do it. or port over all the years of searchable info.

_______________________________________________________________________
http://BretFX.com FCPX Plugins & Templates for Editors & Motion Graphics Artists
Hang Tag http://bretfx.com/product/hang-tag
Overshoot Text http://bretfx.com/product/overshoot-text/
Outliner http://bretfx.com/product/outliner/
Clock Maker http://bretfx.com/product/bretfx-clock-maker/


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Scott Witthaus
Re: You are the first beta-test forum of the new system
on Nov 19, 2018 at 2:32:50 pm

[Bret Williams] "I was thinking more of advertising. "

I wonder how many here are using ad-blockers?

Scott Witthaus
Visual Storyteller - FCPX, Premiere
https://vimeo.com/channels/1322525
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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greg janza
Re: You are the first beta-test forum of the new system
on Nov 19, 2018 at 5:04:27 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "I wonder how many here are using ad-blockers?"

Ad-blockers have become mandatory due to the overwhelming barrage of webvertising.

Windows 10 Pro | i7-5820k CPU | 64 gigs RAM | NvidiaGeForceGTX970 | Blackmagic Decklink 4k Mini Monitor |
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Ronald Lindeboom
Re: You are the first beta-test forum of the new system
on Nov 19, 2018 at 6:33:28 pm

[greg janza] "Ad-blockers have become mandatory due to the overwhelming barrage of webvertising."


In our new interface, we are going to unapologetically include anti-ad-blocker code that will disallow visits from those using ad blockers. You will be given the chance to either turn off the blocker or go away.

We have related advertising that is highly targeted and relative to this industry and so we do not apologize for the ads.

Those that disagree with the policy are welcome to disagree but we are not going to change the policy.

Best regards,

Ronald Lindeboom
CEO, Creative COW LLC

Creativity is a process wherein the student and the teacher are located in the same individual.


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Michael Hancock
Re: You are the first beta-test forum of the new system
on Nov 19, 2018 at 6:46:51 pm

[Ronald Lindeboom] "Those that disagree with the policy are welcome to disagree but we are not going to change the policy."

Good. If people want the free advice from the Cow they need to see the ads that pay for it!

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Scott Witthaus
Re: You are the first beta-test forum of the new system
on Nov 19, 2018 at 6:59:22 pm

[Michael Hancock] " If people want the free advice from the Cow they need to see the ads that pay for it!"

Or they go somewhere else, right? The COW, while a very good source for info and entertainment, certainly is not the only place to go for info and entertainment.

sw

Scott Witthaus
Visual Storyteller - FCPX, Premiere
https://vimeo.com/channels/1322525
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Michael Hancock
Re: You are the first beta-test forum of the new system
on Nov 19, 2018 at 7:24:46 pm

It's not, but there's a wealth of info here, especially in the archives, which are what often pop up when you're googling a problem. Having to look at some ads in the sidebar that aren't intrusive and don't pop up while you're trying to read a post is a small price to pay.

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Scott Witthaus
Re: You are the first beta-test forum of the new system
on Nov 19, 2018 at 6:48:14 pm

[Ronald Lindeboom] "You will be given the chance to either turn off the blocker or go away."

Wow. Interesting attitude.

Scott Witthaus
Visual Storyteller - FCPX, Premiere
https://vimeo.com/channels/1322525
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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greg janza
Re: You are the first beta-test forum of the new system
on Nov 19, 2018 at 7:05:24 pm

We live in a time in which, as customers, we're constantly being bombarded by advertising. It's necessary of course for many sites to pay the bills but there's also advertising fatigue overall. For example, the trend by Youtube to break up videos with insert ads is maddening.

It's also ironic that the video world has moved more and more towards a non-advertising model. Netflix, Hulu, Vudu and many other streaming services are wonderful in part because the user experience is absent of advertising.

Tallmanproductions.net | Windows 10 Pro | i7-5820k CPU | 64 gigs RAM | NvidiaGeForceGTX970 | Blackmagic Decklink 4k Mini Monitor |
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Ronald Lindeboom
Re: You are the first beta-test forum of the new system
on Nov 19, 2018 at 9:45:40 pm

[greg janza] "It's also ironic that the video world has moved more and more towards a non-advertising model. Netflix, Hulu, Vudu, and many other streaming services are wonderful in part because the user experience is absent of advertising."

If you use VUDU or Hulu much, then you know that ads are a part of the picture. Not on the things you own but on the things that are either sponsored (as in the Hulu Live package where even Hulu's own stuff gets ads, not just the live channels) or as in VUDU's "free" movies, they all come with ads. Same for the Roku channel, etc.

But as for the ad-free services like Netflix, it's easy to do when you charge people a fee every month. We don't, so we have to pay the costs somehow.

Best regards,

Ronald Lindeboom
CEO, Creative COW LLC

Creativity is a process wherein the student and the teacher are located in the same individual.


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Ronald Lindeboom
Re: You are the first beta-test forum of the new system
on Nov 19, 2018 at 8:17:15 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "Wow. Interesting attitude."

When you have enough invested in a company that you could have bought multiple houses, your attitude is likely different than those who have no investment in it.

Best regards,

Ronald Lindeboom
CEO, Creative COW LLC

Creativity is a process wherein the student and the teacher are located in the same individual.


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Scott Witthaus
Re: You are the first beta-test forum of the new system
on Nov 19, 2018 at 8:19:07 pm

[Ronald Lindeboom] "When you have enough invested in a company that you could have bought multiple houses, your attitude is likely different than those who have no investment in it."

Fair enough. I have created and run my own shops too. I just thought it interesting with the "play my way or go home". Not sure I would do that to "clients" I value.

Scott Witthaus
Visual Storyteller - FCPX, Premiere
https://vimeo.com/channels/1322525
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Walter Soyka
Re: You are the first beta-test forum of the new system
on Nov 19, 2018 at 8:33:41 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "Fair enough. I have created and run my own shops too. I just thought it interesting with the "play my way or go home". Not sure I would do that to "clients" I value."

Are they clients if they don't pay?

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Scott Witthaus
Re: You are the first beta-test forum of the new system
on Nov 19, 2018 at 8:44:50 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Are they clients if they don't pay?"

My point is (and Ron has his own methods), that I don't take that kind of tone with clients. There are better ways to communicate the fact that "to keep this forum going like we all enjoy it, we cannot allow users to block our advertisers who pay us good money to have their products seen. So with the new system, we will no longer allow ad-blocking technology to be used. We hope you understand our reasons and look forward to your continued participation on this forum..." Something like that. Maybe it's just me and the "no ad-blockers or go-away" is the better method?


To each their own.

Scott Witthaus
Visual Storyteller - FCPX, Premiere
https://vimeo.com/channels/1322525
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Ronald Lindeboom
Re: You are the first beta-test forum of the new system
on Nov 19, 2018 at 9:55:53 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "My point is (and Ron has his own methods), that I don't take that kind of tone with clients. "

If I had worried about "tones" I would have selected a far different forum than this one to do the testing with. As I mentioned earlier, I chose this very forum because I can count on the people here to be direct to the point of very acerbic and cutting remarks -- this has been the nature of this forum -- and we want the unvarnished truth as we move forward. People were quite direct about the ads and so I was quite direct in my reply. This is not a "safe room" and we tend in this forum to be very up-front about things, so I said what I said. It is the reality of things and people are welcome to have whatever opinion they want about what we are up to. But, that said, in the end we have always gone our own way and will continue to do so.

I am sorry if you took offense at what I said but I tend to be very direct with the people in this forum. They are some of the most straight-ahead and no-nonsense, intelligent bunch in the COW. So I talk to them like grown-ups, just as they shoot quite straight with me.

Best regards,

Ronald Lindeboom
CEO, Creative COW LLC

Creativity is a process wherein the student and the teacher are located in the same individual.


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Scott Witthaus
Re: You are the first beta-test forum of the new system
on Nov 20, 2018 at 1:21:25 pm

[Ronald Lindeboom] " am sorry if you took offense at what I said but I tend to be very direct with the people in this forum. They are some of the most straight-ahead and no-nonsense, intelligent bunch in the COW. So I talk to them like grown-ups, just as they shoot quite straight with me."

No offense taken at all Ron. You have built a nice place here and its yours to deal with. The "use it our way or get the F out" method is direct to be sure, but not one you can use out in the "real world" for long and be successful. Maybe in the military.

Just my humble opine.

Scott Witthaus
Visual Storyteller - FCPX, Premiere
https://vimeo.com/channels/1322525
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Steve Connor
Re: You are the first beta-test forum of the new system
on Nov 19, 2018 at 10:54:08 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "[Ronald Lindeboom] "You will be given the chance to either turn off the blocker or go away."

Wow. Interesting attitude."


Yes Ron, how dare you tell us what to do on YOUR forums :)


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Andrew Kimery
Re: You are the first beta-test forum of the new system
on Nov 20, 2018 at 6:20:18 am

To be honest the ads on the COW have never bugged me.

With regards to FB... that's a whole different beast that's popular in large part because it's a one-stop-shop for social (friends, family, co-workers, user groups, etc.,), but FB is an ever-present, all powerful middle man between content creators (in this case Ron/the COW) and their audience. No thank you.

Oldie but a goodie from The Oatmeal.
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/reaching_people


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