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Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..

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Bill Davis
Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 2, 2018 at 4:05:01 pm

https://money.cnn.com/2018/08/02/investing/apple-one-trillion-market-value/...

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Steve Connor
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 2, 2018 at 4:35:45 pm



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Shane Ross
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 2, 2018 at 6:34:17 pm

Yup...iphones and iPods and iPads saved them. Sure glad I bought stock in Apple BEFORE the iPod came out. My $300 investment turned into a down payment for a house.

Apple has been bigger than all other companies for years now...amazing.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Bill Davis
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 2, 2018 at 6:45:23 pm

[Shane Ross] "iphones and iPods and iPads saved them."

Sure, but that frames it almost like those are external things, while they decidedly are not. They're expressions of the same basic idea. Deeply understanding what evolving technology is able do for people - then building products that best leverage that understanding.

If you don't have hardware and software engineers that can conceive something like the iPod - then you can't similarly conceive something like the MacBook Pro.

There's a continuum there that's operating where human interface engineering meets materials engineering which meets software engineering and more...

and apparently THAT is how a company gets to a 9 figure market cap.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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David Mathis
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 2, 2018 at 7:00:58 pm

Say now trillion has 12 zeros not 9. πŸ˜‰


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Bill Davis
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 2, 2018 at 7:06:26 pm

[David Mathis] "Say now trillion has 12 zeros not 9. πŸ˜‰"

Whoops. Unfamiliar numeric territory for a lot of folks, me quite obviously included!

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 2, 2018 at 8:47:06 pm

Although, the success of the iOS and services ecosystems for Apple is pretty irrelevant to what we do.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Rob Essers
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 3, 2018 at 6:41:58 pm

Apple simple doesn't take care of improvements of FCPX in a major way that other manufactures do.
In 2018 for me it's still not possible to use AV output without hiccups with Blackmagic devices no matter which version of the Blackmagic Desktop video I use. And that with an Imac 2017 retina 5K 4,2 I7. Preview with a client is an embarrassment. No problem with Premiere pro, Media Composer or Resolve. Still no only audio transition without workaround. Still old bugs. Is that Apple we love of taking care of stay ahead in our profession?


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Bret Williams
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 3, 2018 at 9:02:46 pm

Being that AJA has no such issues, I’d put the blame square with BMD. That said, my BMD device, which would rash the system constantly if I used it for almost 2 years, has worked perfectly for the last year and then some. The AJA has been put back on the shelf.

_______________________________________________________________________
http://BretFX.com FCPX Plugins & Templates for Editors & Motion Graphics Artists
Hang Tag http://bretfx.com/product/hang-tag
Overshoot Text http://bretfx.com/product/overshoot-text/
Outliner http://bretfx.com/product/outliner/
Clock Maker http://bretfx.com/product/bretfx-clock-maker/


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Bill Davis
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 6, 2018 at 4:11:17 pm
Last Edited By Bill Davis on Aug 6, 2018 at 4:22:09 pm

[Rob Essers] "In 2018 for me it's still not possible to use AV output without hiccups with Blackmagic devices no matter which version of the Blackmagic Desktop video I use."

Seriously? That's on Apple?

I use AV output every single day with FCP X and NO additional hardware or software - and it works pretty much flawlessly.

I can configure my 40" client monitor to show anything from my desktop to the Viewer, to just the master output in a few clicks, reliably.

So I'd question if this is more likely an Apple issue, or a BlackMagic one.

That said, I think one reason BlackMagic has these issues is that they are swinging for an amazing array of hardware fences in a way nobody else is.

They are shepherding the digital video industry into a new era where devices aren't the dumb coax connected boxes of our youth, but mostly just Vid-oIP nodes on a network.

That ain't easy. It means every freeking device has a ear and a voice, and they have to negotiate with each other to work at all. The benefits are massive, but the disruption is equally massive. So I give them lots of leeway to experiment - and yes, fail, as needed.

It's the only way to suss out this much complexity and figure out what's actually going to work going forward.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Herb Sevush
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 2, 2018 at 10:18:54 pm

The obvious question is why do you care? I know that I don't care what Adobe's valuation is, as long as they're not going out of business. Does Apple's financial success mean anything positive for FCPX or Mac's in general? If so, then what? if not, then so what?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Bill Davis
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 2, 2018 at 10:59:47 pm

[Herb Sevush] "The obvious question is why do you care? I know that I don't care what Adobe's valuation is, as long as they're not going out of business. Does Apple's financial success mean anything positive for FCPX or Mac's in general? If so, then what? if not, then so what?"

IMO, Apple can't do what Apple does best (which is take chances when they see opportunities that might disrupt current practices, but that they feel may pay off in the longer term) if the company isn't strong overall financially.

More money in the bank, - the more willing they reasonably may be to take risks in forward looking initiatives.

Basically, the stronger the company grows after exhibiting a culture of innovation to the marketplace - the MORE innovation we're likely to see.

Pretty much that simple, as I see it.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Herb Sevush
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 3, 2018 at 11:12:57 am

[Bill Davis] "IMO, Apple can't do what Apple does best (which is take chances when they see opportunities that might disrupt current practices, but that they feel may pay off in the longer term) if the company isn't strong overall financially. "

Do they have to be #1 in valuation to meet the standard of "strong overall financially." Why the glee? Whats in it for you or anybody else where they fall on the list of top 30 companies? If they "only" had a value of 600 billion would they be any less adventurous?

[Bill Davis] "Basically, the stronger the company grows after exhibiting a culture of innovation to the marketplace - the MORE innovation we're likely to see. "

Since the growth of the company has nothing to do with FCPX or Mac's in general, why do you think the direction of their innovating will be of benefit to you?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Bill Davis
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 3, 2018 at 6:57:25 pm

Herb,

While these are overall largely silly "push poll" type points... I'll play.

Generally. Nobody said Apple HAS to be #1. I'm noting their sustained success as a simple data point that shows that their customers appreciate their products and services and how they do business. It's a counter to the constant foolish narrative that Apple (again and again) is doing things woefully wrong and that everyone with a clue knows that as soon as people "wise up" to their deficiencies, their success will cease. That's all.

As to "whats in it for me" - basically it just is a "after the results are in" look back at my oft articulated opinions from back in 2011 that Apple was driving the industry forward, not dumbing it down, as many alleged. People regularly said they'd FAIL with their strategy. They have not. And in fact, we can see nice examples of how their competitors have come to adopt some of Apples signature creative efforts - buttonless smart phones being one - the FCP X skimmer leading to "hover scrub", being another: to provide both generic and NLE specific examples.

And as to your last point, I'd argue that the FCP X story has EVERYTHING to do with why Apple is doing measurably better than all the naysayers expected. It's another clear example of Apple hiring people with vision - supporting that vision even if it appears widely disruptive at first. They looked to reap longer term benefits by making those directional decisions. Apple does that over and over again. Sure they miss plenty of times. But they also succeed more than most - as EVIDENCED by how their corporate creative ecosystem has succeeded regarding market valuation beyond what any other modern global company has managed.

Every corporation has a culture. Apples is more oriented to looking for opportunities to disrupt and improve, than most of their competitors. And that approach now has yet another objective metric to support that it was the correct leadership direction for achieving long term results.

That's simply worth noting as they cross this particular (perhaps temporary) rubicon.

Nothing more than that.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Herb Sevush
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 4, 2018 at 12:53:19 pm

Our difference seems to be that you see Apple as monolithic and I don't. The iphone/ipad success did not stop the Mac division from releasing the Trash Can, a failure that Apple has acknowledged. I like my Ipad, I don't like their workstation offerings. As an editor the latter is much more important to me than the former. I don't think that success in one sphere means success in all.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Bill Davis
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 5, 2018 at 7:22:42 pm

[Herb Sevush] "The iphone/ipad success did not stop the Mac division from releasing the Trash Can, a failure that Apple has acknowledged."

Perhaps we just see "failure" differently.

I see the trash can as a stage in the evolution of Apples offerings. It served - and continues to serve - many of those who own them. Yes, in hindsight, it had insurmountable issues effecting both performance and longevity, and never performed as perfectly as I'm sure Apple intended - yet in hindsight, when I look at, for example, the standalone eGPU unit just released by BlackMagic, it's hard to argue that there wasn't more than a bit of form factor influence from that much maligned unit.

I note often that the landscape of the entire computer industry has largely switched from design-perfect-ship - to design - ship - iterate. This follows from the connected "now" when it's common to push a software or firmware updates that correct issues that might have been in place on initial delivery. (Call it the Hubble Space Telescope effect?)

I suspect it's what we'll be seeing for the future. The hardware configuration goes out the door with the best design and performance compromises that can be figured out at that time's price point - and then as data comes back in - things are expected to improved. That's kinda what the "overclockers" started. Take what you get initially, and if you want to risk it - modify for improvement.

Personally, I see computers as no kind of long term solution for much of anything anymore - but as an evolving base under my work. When the base gets too old, to dinged up, or simply out of date to be acceptable. The base gets changed. Sometimes, it miraculously happens while I'm sleeping via software update. Other times, I have to take action and pull out a credit card. But the only thing I know for sure is that living through THIS pace of change - whatever is sitting on my desk today - will seem awfully old and cranky all too soon. So I just accept that as how it works.

All the tape decks, turntables, and mixing boards I've ever owned are roach fodder now. Including all the ones I struggled MIGHTLY to figure out how to initially afford.

I'm not sure why I should see my computer any differently. Evolve or die. That's the new normal for people AND gear, IMO.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 5, 2018 at 7:32:10 pm

[Bill Davis] "Perhaps we just see "failure" differently.
I see the trash can as a stage in the evolution of Apples offerings. It served - and continues to serve - many of those who own them."


Sheesh! It's right up there with the Apple Mac Cube. It's a great computer for audio. Not so much for video, thanks to improper thermal distribution and load distribution across the two GPUs used in its design. That started day one and never got better.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Herb Sevush
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 6, 2018 at 12:38:13 pm

[Bill Davis] "Perhaps we just see "failure" differently. "

Probably only when it comes to Apple products.

[Bill Davis] "I see the trash can as a stage in the evolution of Apples offerings. "

Sure, it's the missing link between the Newton and the G4 Cube.

[Bill Davis] " Yes, in hindsight, it had insurmountable issues effecting both performance and longevity, and never performed as perfectly as I'm sure Apple intended - yet in hindsight, when I look at, for example, the standalone eGPU unit just released by BlackMagic, it's hard to argue that there wasn't more than a bit of form factor influence from that much maligned unit."

I agree. As a computer it was a failure but as a design concept it was pretty cool. Unfortunately I was in the market for a computer.

[Bill Davis] " But the only thing I know for sure is that living through THIS pace of change - whatever is sitting on my desk today - will seem awfully old and cranky all too soon."

But how soon is "all too soon?" The Trash can was old and cranky the day it was brought out. For me that is definitely "all too soon."

[Bill Davis] "The hardware configuration goes out the door with the best design and performance compromises that can be figured out at that time's price point - and then as data comes back in - things are expected to improved. That's kinda what the "overclockers" started. Take what you get initially, and if you want to risk it - modify for improvement."

Which is precisely what the nMac Pro was designed to prevent. That paradigm was bring unfinished design to market and then make it impossible to modify. Brilliant. But it did have a cool looking case.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Bill Davis
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 6, 2018 at 3:52:14 pm

[Herb Sevush] "Which is precisely what the nMac Pro was designed to prevent. That paradigm was bring unfinished design to market and then make it impossible to modify. Brilliant. But it did have a cool looking case."

Yep, Apple kept right on failing their way to the top.

Maddening, isn't it?

Hey, what if each failure actually taught them something they needed to know?

Wouldn't that be weird?

πŸ˜‰

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Herb Sevush
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 6, 2018 at 4:09:04 pm

[Bill Davis] "Hey, what if each failure actually taught them something they needed to know?
"


Failure is a great teacher, but that doesn't make it any less a failure. I'm sure Ford learned a lot about car design after the Pinto kept blowing up, but that wasn't much comfort to the people who were caught in the flames. While there's no success like failure, failure ain't no success at all - (i believe i didn't originate that.)

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Bill Davis
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 6, 2018 at 4:13:55 pm

[Herb Sevush] "While there's no success like failure, failure ain't no success at all - (i believe i didn't originate that.)"

Nice.

But it still misses the overall truth.

There are always failures on the path to success. Always.

The only probative concern is if those failures stop a company, or encourage it to improve.

In this case, I think the results this whole thread addresses - speak for themselves.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Bob Zelin
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 3, 2018 at 12:48:51 am

Hi
Debbie Downer here -
It seems that Bill is SO EXCITED that Apple has 1 Trillion Dollars. Well I know how Apple can continue that trend.
Before I tell you, I must say that I AM OLD, and close to getting Medicare, so I really don't give a damn anymore. I have done well in the professional video business, so I have nothing to complain about. I still use and integrate Apple computers every day for professional editors. So I am just whining now. My reply is strictly about Bill's happiness about Apple's financial success.

One day Apple will "teach" every human being how to edit. EVERYONE will edit. And just like there is a small market for professional writers (and there will continue to be a small market for professional editors) - the VAST MAJORITY of what we do for a living will disappear. And Apple will make EVEN MORE MONEY (maybe 2 trillion dollars). And just like all those courses that you see (you too can learn how to use Microsoft Word !) - Bill will run a school that teaches every mom and every grandma how to edit their little show, so that (just like the demise of the printing business) - EVERYONE CAN DO IT. If you were to say "I am a printer" - you would sneer. And if you were to say " I am a data entry person" - or "I am a word processor" - you would sneer. And this is EXACTLY what will happen one day soon. Do I care - no - I am old, I will be out of it before this happens, but for young people that are professional editors - well, they are screwed, and Bill Davis will say "SEE - I TOLD YOU SO".

The exact same thing will ultimately happen to what I do for a living. It's already happened. Video facilities are pretty much gone, except for the "factories" in LA. Everyone with a Canon 5D and an iMac is a production company.
And so, my last hold out - storage, and shared storage - with cheaper and cheaper companies (like QNAP and Synology) - ONE DAY - internet speeds to everyone's home will be 10G speeds or faster. And this would have happened by now, if it wasn't for the cable companies whose executives want that 50 million dollar a year bonus, instead of investing in fiber lines all over the place. Google has already proven that it can provide 800 Mb/sec connections to everyone's home in countless cities for very little money (relatively speaking) - but that's STILL too much money for the Comcasts, Spectrums, Cox's, AT&T's of the world - because their execs want the BIG BUCKS, and if they can get it for a few years, screw the consumers. And so I stay employed. But that will change one day soon, and soon, EVEYRONE will have a 1G connection to your cloud site, and people willing to pay more will have a 10G connection to their cloud site, and you will be able to cut your 4K FCP X video right off Apple iCloud - so who needs a "facility" - when I can do EVERYTHING from my bed, and deliver to the world without leaving the house.

I know it's coming. I just don't like it. Bill Davis LOVES THIS !

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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Michael Gissing
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 3, 2018 at 8:34:40 am

I'd be happy if Apple (and Google, etc) paid tax in the many countries they operate in. I don't care how clever their products are when they are acting like such poor corporate citizens in so many countries. They are not the only tech and big industrial corporations that behave that way. That is no excuse but shows how socially uncool they are.


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Bill Davis
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 3, 2018 at 9:11:24 am

[Michael Gissing] "I'd be happy if Apple (and Google, etc) paid tax in the many countries they operate in."

If that’s a plea for consistency in taxation anywhere in the world, for Apple or ANY large multinational, good luck with that.

This was just on Apple Insider today.
Apple says it has paid $10.4B of $15.1B in back taxes to Ireland
https://goo.gl/cVJUbn

And that’s just ONE of the countries it operates in.

Ireland itself proposed the special deal to draw the business, just like cities and β€œspecial authorities” deals for large employers, sports teams,and economic engine class enterprises.

I’m pretty sure that as a publicly traded company, Apple has a duty to stockholders not to pay any more in taxes than they are legally obligated to.

The problem is that we all know that the nature of the β€œobligation” itself shifts like crazy once the deal negotiators sit down.

But I don’t think that’s changed in the whole history of the human race.

Let me know when someone figures out how to stop it. But I’m not holding my breath.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Michael Gissing
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 4, 2018 at 12:01:09 am
Last Edited By Michael Gissing on Aug 4, 2018 at 12:01:42 am

[Bill Davis] "This was just on Apple Insider today.
Apple says it has paid $10.4B of $15.1B in back taxes to Ireland"

I didn't read the article but I know the back story. Apple based itself in Ireland because they were given an astonishingly low tax rate which made it highly lucrative to ship profits from it's operations all over the world to Ireland. The European Union courts determined the deal highly illegal and threatened to make Ireland pay to the EU the taxes that Apple had fraudulently avoided under the illegal deal. So Apple is paying the fine for their illegal activities.

If for a moment you think avoiding the social responsibility of paying fair taxes for profits made is 'good business' then I'm not sure where your moral compass is. As I said, the problem is not just Apple. But the social consequences for the richest companies in the world to use loopholes to avoid fairly sharing their good fortune with the peoples of the world who make them so wealthy are that health and social services like education are not properly funded by governments.


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Bill Davis
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 6, 2018 at 4:06:30 pm

[Michael Gissing] "As I said, the problem is not just Apple. But the social consequences for the richest companies in the world to use loopholes to avoid fairly sharing their good fortune with the peoples of the world who make them so wealthy are that health and social services like education are not properly funded by governments."

While I generally agree with you on all of this, Apple is a corporation first and foremost. If Apple strong-armed Ireland to accept those terms, Apple is at fault. But my experience with many of the (in my opinion toxic) "municipal stadium deals" of the 90s and 2000's - is that politicians literally THREW tax exemptions at large corporations under the umbrella of "economic development" and "job creation."

Great swaths of large corporations rushed to those troughs. So if Apple, with a fiduciary duty to it's shareholders didn't participate in those perfectly legal offerings - that's something the shareholders could legitimately take them to task over.

Having spent some time with a camera documenting life in the Executive suite - I can't count how many times I saw that while the focus that the prior week had been on customer issues, suddenly it shifted to "shareholder value" as an earnings call approached.

I just think it's more complicated than you're implying here.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Michael Gissing
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 7, 2018 at 3:42:36 am

[Bill Davis] "I just think it's more complicated than you're implying here."

Morality is rarely that complicated. Justifying it or philosophizing it sure can be. It's a simple truth that corporations can be immoral citizens whilst being perfectly legal. It is that simple.

I only raise these issues because it is easy to equate financial success with being somehow worthy of our veneration. Apple are no so rich and powerful that they are above reproach in many areas.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 7, 2018 at 7:25:40 am

[Bob Zelin] "EVERYONE CAN DO IT. If you were to say "I am a printer" - you would sneer. And if you were to say " I am a data entry person" - or "I am a word processor" - you would sneer. And this is EXACTLY what will happen one day soon. Do I care - no - I am old, I will be out of it before this happens, but for young people that are professional editors - well, they are screwed, and Bill Davis will say "SEE - I TOLD YOU SO". "

'Everyone' has been able to do it for a solid fifteen years with iMovie and an inexpensive DV camera though. 'Everyone' can cook their own meals, drive their own cars, and/or tile their own bathrooms. But not everyone wants do all these things which is why restaurants are still a thing, public and commercial transportation is still a thing, bathroom remodelers are still a thing...

Some things are changing a lot. Some things change very little. I agree though that if what one does can be easily/adequately done by novice (or a machine) then one probably needs to up their game before it's too late.

Are all the gigs going to pay what people made 'back in the day'? No, but they don't necessary need to. Thanks to changing tech you don't need invest a small fortune in gear or have to live/work in a super expensive place like LA or NY in order to make a living. Sure, some opportunities are rarely found outside of those to major markets, but that's just the way it is.

And while I think there is more growth in the generalist side of things there is still growth (and need) for specialists as well.

For example, a few years ago I wasn't selected for a long term gig at a large company because they were looking for a shooter/editor and I was just an editor (that used to shoot a long time ago). Everyone there was a hybrid (producer/shooter, editor/producer, shooter/editor, etc.,) and I just didn't fit that mold. I would still gig for them from time to time when they were extra busy, someone was out sick, etc...

Then one day they brought me in for a few months to work on a feature piece (a documentary short) because they needed an editor (as opposed to someone that just knows how to edit). I did two more feature pieces for them that year and they eventually hired me full time because forcing everyone to wear multiple hats meant no one had the time to edit the amount of content they had at the required level of quality.



[Bill Davis] "I’m pretty sure that as a publicly traded company, Apple has a duty to stockholders not to pay any more in taxes than they are legally obligated to."

[Bill Davis] "Great swaths of large corporations rushed to those troughs. So if Apple, with a fiduciary duty to it's shareholders didn't participate in those perfectly legal offerings - that's something the shareholders could legitimately take them to task over. "

This line of thought is a commonly held myth. There is no law forcing publicly traded companies in the US to do anything and everything in order to 'maximize shareholder value'. Companies are required to work in shareholders' 'best interests' but best interest could be giving employees raises (to improve moral/productivity), not doing funky things with their taxes (thus avoiding potentially damaging PR and fines), and not dumping toxic waste into the local water supply (even though that would be cheaper than proper disposal).

It's based on a 100yr old court case where Henry Ford stopped paying dividends to Ford shareholders so he could lower the prices on Ford cars. Obviously the shareholders were upset, Ford told them take a short walk off a long pier, they sued and the court basically that ruled corporate directors can't simply ignore the the needs of shareholders like that, but that doesn't mean the directors are beholden to every shareholder whim either.

Since then the courts and the government have given corporate directors very wide latitude in how to run their companies (even when some of the decisions upset share folders). For an on-forum example, somewhat recently on an earnings call a shareholder was a bit hostile towards Apple's growing investment in green (thus more expensive) energy. Tim Cook told the guy that if he's not comfortable with green energy he's got stock in the wrong company. I also remember on more than one occasion Costco's CEO ignoring the pleas of shareholders to low employee wages, cut employee benefits, etc., in order to goose the stock price.

IMO the 'maximize shareholder value' myth was popularized by corporate raiders, activist investors looking to pump n' dump stock, executives with bonuses tied to short term financial milestones, and pretty much anyone else who needed to justify doing anything and everything (sometimes legal, sometimes not) to squeeze one more penny into their pocket.


/soapbox


-Andrew


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Mathieu Ghekiere
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 7, 2018 at 8:27:59 am

[Andrew Kimery] "For an on-forum example, somewhat recently on an earnings call a shareholder was a bit hostile towards Apple's growing investment in green (thus more expensive) energy. Tim Cook told the guy that if he's not comfortable with green energy he's got stock in the wrong company."


If I'm not mistaken it was a shareholder that was complaining about the 'Return on Investment' of putting money and efforts in the assistive features Apple has in their systems for blind/deaf/disabled people. And Tim Cook said they don't think about 'damn ROI on features like that', and if you are only looking for ROI, the shareholder was investing in the wrong company.

https://mathieughekiere.wordpress.com


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 7, 2018 at 5:00:01 pm

[Mathieu Ghekiere] "If I'm not mistaken it was a shareholder that was complaining about the 'Return on Investment' of putting money and efforts in the assistive features Apple has in their systems for blind/deaf/disabled people. And Tim Cook said they don't think about 'damn ROI on features like that', and if you are only looking for ROI, the shareholder was investing in the wrong company."

After some Googling it looks like it said both things on the same call.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/03/at-apple-shareholders-meeting-tim-c...


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Steve Connor
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 7, 2018 at 5:15:22 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "After some Googling it looks like it said both things on the same call.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/03/at-apple-shareholders-meeting-tim-c.....

"


Unbelievable!


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Bill Davis
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 3, 2018 at 8:50:35 am

[Bob Zelin] "I know it's coming. I just don't like it. Bill Davis LOVES THIS !"

Sorry to be so content, Bob It’s a curse.
Tell you what, tho... To make you feel better I might just go over to Cafe Press and order you a spiffy new T-Shirt with the best quote I read tonight on the Forum discussions of the milestone thingy...

Apple:
Now more Doomed than Ever!

(I wonder if Aindreas would like one too?)

πŸ˜‰

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Bernard Newnham
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 3, 2018 at 9:25:21 pm

One has to wonder, Bill - what do you get out of endless praise for Apple? Are you are speculator, forever making a killing buying and selling stock and getting ever richer?

Apple's huge fortune hasn't been made selling Macs or FCPX, it's been made selling expensive phones to people who haven't worked out that they can buy similar products for a third of the price. That includes lots of my "poor" students. I have no idea why.

Apple have also made a fortune - just like Amazon and others - by not paying a moral amount of tax in the markets they serve. "We pay all our taxes in every country we sell in" - but we exploit every loophole in the differences in between laws to keep money that should be benefiting those countries. I read that Apple stash it away on some desert island - billions of dollars. At least Bill Gates is doing good with his Microsoft money.

I'm sure FCPX is a perfectly good editing system (though not for me) but there are lots of others, and they don't lock you in to being a vassal of the great vampire squid of computers. Resolve is my current choice, but I have no loyalty to Blackmagic, it's just convenient, for now.

I'm older that Bob, have spent all my life in television, and took my BBC pension a while back now. Technology has come and gone, and for many years I was at the leading edge, an early adopter at one of the world's greatest broadcasters. I can't imagine why anyone would want to lock themselves in to one company. And that's the Apple philosophy - buy one bit and you have to buy the lot. I've always picked what worked, and still do. I don't care who makes it, but I won't be dictated to by a manufacturer.

What's in it for you Bill, and all those other Apple cheerleaders here?

Bernie


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David Cherniack
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 3, 2018 at 9:49:49 pm

[Bernard Newnham] "What's in it for you Bill, and all those other Apple cheerleaders here?"

Perhaps the notion of Fetishism is appropriate........just say'n....as they say....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetishism

David
http://AllinOneFilms.com


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Bill Davis
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 5, 2018 at 8:13:36 pm
Last Edited By Bill Davis on Aug 5, 2018 at 8:21:17 pm

[Bernard Newnham] "What's in it for you Bill, and all those other Apple cheerleaders here?
"


I explained it on another board not long ago.

When X was released, (scratch that: When X was PREVIEWED, long before anyone had touched it IRL, everyone showed up hating it. That hate continued for the 2 months before ANYONE had touched it.

I thought that was fascinating. A bit like Witch Trials in that it was lots of folks saying I can't possibly know the truth yet, but I accuse and CONDEM you anyway!

The day it was released, I was as confused as anyone, but in the weeks following, I kept seeing idea after idea that was fresh and fascinating. The database reminded me of Filemaker Pro a bit. Keywords looked AMAZING. The Magnetic timeline, which like most editors with a decade of chair time behind me, totally weirded me out at first, started then slowly making all kinds of sense.

Yet for the next TWO YEARS - that initial crap understanding of what was happening continued.

My position was "WAIT - there's some kind of amazing stuff happening here - and many of you are missing a great new forest because you're standing with your nose pressed against a temporary sign that some largely clueless person slapped up before the building was even finished.

So in that environ, I started posting about X.

But to understand HOW I was posting you have to add a Part 2 to that Part 1.

I described it to someone who asked me this same question elsewhere, like this.

Put Good and Bad on a Spectrum. Color one end Yellow (X=horrible) and one end Blue (X wonderful)

What's in the middle? Green, right?

I saw so much YELLOW poured out on the webs for so long about this tool - yellow that I thought was simply wong in an extremely shortsighted way, that it was annoying. I could see real value in all the new stuff in X, but the loudest voices would allow for NO VALUE \ whatsoever for many, many months. It was a lonely time, for those of us who thought this might actually be an interesting road to follow.

So here's the thing. Let's say the truth is allways Green. X was never as Bad at legions were saying, but also never as all good as I was implying (wink).

Thing is, if I simply started a modest racket implying AQUAMARINE is the Truth - I'd be hobbling my own purpose - which was to pull the overall debate back into the green middle as efficiently as I could.

The only things being said in defense of X, were couched in moderation so as not to offend the bright yellow legions. But here's the thing. What happens if you add GREEN to Yellow? You don't really get more Green - you get Chartruse. And that's NOT where I felt the debate should ACTUALLY be. I saw way too much value in the concepts behind X to allow for chartreuse to win the day. The only way to get to green is to add pure Blue to the pure Yellow being argued so loudly.

And so that's what I did. Took on all comers with pure BLUE arguments.

And in time, (totally NOT just because of me, because the Blue Army grew and grew rapidly) I started to slowly see the overall on-line opinions start to shift.

There are still ALL YELLOW folks out there stuck in a 2011 mindset - and when I see one, I'm delighted to roll out the ALL BLUE arguments. That's just fun. But this simple strategy that was largely instinctive and only half planned at first, turned out to be super effective in ways I never imagined.

Because of it - because I uncompromisingly argued for a thing I felt I was seeing that the larger market was missing, I got noticed. I thought it was just by folks on newsgroups like this - but I was GOBSMAKED when I realized that a MUCH wider world was watching.

There were literally moments when I was backstage somewhere and I went up to introduce myself to someone notable that I'd never met, I'd stick out my hand and say Hi, I'm Bill Davis" - and the response was "I know. Nice to finally meet you in person."

So what started as a tiny personal crusade in an internet backwater, kinda came to have unexpected, lasting, and incredibly positive side effects for me.

I know way more cool people now, quite by accident, because I fought a clearly blue fight for so long.

And it was easy, because when I look at X, not only did I actually see a lot of blue, but because the blue in it was making my work easier and easier, faster and faster in the real world - it was super easy to keep ignoring the small flashes of yellow that legitimately did make their way into the discussions.

People think I can't "see" the yellow. And I get why. But I'm not (generally) an idiot and I can see it well enough. But nothing yellow about X has ever really caused me much of a problem - so there's no real value in worrying about becoming more yellow about things. There are still plenty of those folks around.

So while it's easy to just box it under "fanboisim" - (and while I'm sure some of this is EXACTLY that, as it's generally understood, the implication of being a fan boy is that you suspend your critical thinking in order to do so.

Thing is, what if there are ACTUAL legitimate and positive reasons for appearing like someone who stays on one side, even if you "get" the other side.

Worth thinking about that, perhaps.

That a good enough explanation? 😊

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Bernard Newnham
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 5, 2018 at 9:17:37 pm

I don't know about anyone else, but I find myself lost for words.

Bernie


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Oliver Peters
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 5, 2018 at 9:39:33 pm

[Bernard Newnham] "I don't know about anyone else, but I find myself lost for words."

Maybe Michael Cioni explained it best. ☺







- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Bill Davis
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 6, 2018 at 10:56:33 pm

[Bernard Newnham] "I don't know about anyone else, but I find myself lost for words.

Bernie"


At the strategy - or that someone here might have actually had one?

😁

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Herb Sevush
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 6, 2018 at 12:45:40 pm

[Bill Davis] "Because of it - because I uncompromisingly argued for a thing I felt I was seeing that the larger market was missing, I got noticed. I thought it was just by folks on newsgroups like this - but I was GOBSMAKED when I realized that a MUCH wider world was watching.

There were literally moments when I was backstage somewhere and I went up to introduce myself to someone notable that I'd never met, I'd stick out my hand and say Hi, I'm Bill Davis" - and the response was "I know. Nice to finally meet you in person."

So what started as a tiny personal crusade in an internet backwater, kinda came to have unexpected, lasting, and incredibly positive side effects for me.

I know way more cool people now, quite by accident, because I fought a clearly blue fight for so long."


Bill, I'm glad you've gotten to know so many cool people, but for the folks on this forum do you think you could put up some kind of banner or notice when you're actually arguing for what you believe as opposed to arguing to change the color values of the NLE multiverse. I know it would make my life much simpler.

Thanks.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Bill Davis
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 6, 2018 at 3:33:58 pm

[Herb Sevush] "Bill, I'm glad you've gotten to know so many cool people, but for the folks on this forum do you think you could put up some kind of banner or notice when you're actually arguing for what you believe as opposed to arguing to change the color values of the NLE multiverse. I know it would make my life much simpler."

Uh, NO.

First off, who says I don't believe every word I've posted?

You can be solid blue because that's what you believe is the correct position. God knows the solid yellow folk believed they were correct.

That fact that I elected not to bend over backwards to appear "balanced" - in the face of guys like Aindreas (who didn't give a jot about any such balancing) - is prima facia evidence for my case.

IF the X haters were rarely asked to compromise their positions. Why should I? The result is a skewed chartreuse world. (And that's objectively ugly!)

Here we are. Closer than ever to Green.

And that's a good thing, IMO.

Also, the same shrinking level of privacy is afforded to everyone on the interwebs, so nobody gets to have an advanced clue as to why anyone writes anything. As we now know, I might not actually exist. This whole 7 year long argument could all just have been Russian hacker led miss-direction aimed at sowing chaos in the American NLE industry!

Be vigilant!

πŸ˜‰

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Bernard Newnham
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 6, 2018 at 7:46:23 pm

One or more of us seems to have lost the plot - could be me as I'm the oldest.

I'm still interested in comments on my earlier request, in the light of what the OP wrote, whoever he was.

Bernie


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Bill Davis
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 6, 2018 at 10:54:26 pm

[Bernard Newnham] "One or more of us seems to have lost the plot - could be me as I'm the oldest.
"


You sure? A lot of us here are a lot older than folks probably think.

You can spot them often, as anyone conditioned over some years to comfortably write in strings longer than 144 characters...

πŸ˜‰

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Bernard Newnham
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 7, 2018 at 8:36:30 am

71 last May.

I first sat down in an edit suite in 1977. Two 2" machines - though I didn't actually do my own operating till around 1996, on Eidos Optima. After that - Avid of various sorts, FCP from beta to 7, Edius, PPro and Resolve. I also tested large numbers of also-rans for the BBC.

Bernie


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Steve Connor
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 6, 2018 at 8:44:50 pm

[Bernard Newnham] " it's been made selling expensive phones to people who haven't worked out that they can buy similar products for a third of the price."

We like the quality of the phones and the security of the iOS ecosystem and you CAN'T get a phone as good as my iPhone X for a third of the price

[Bernard Newnham] "Apple have also made a fortune - just like Amazon and others - by not paying a moral amount of tax in the markets they serve. "We pay all our taxes in every country we sell in" - but we exploit every loophole in the differences in between laws to keep money that should be benefiting those countries"

Do you offer HMRC more money than is legally due to them for moral reasons?

[Bernard Newnham] "I'm sure FCPX is a perfectly good editing system (though not for me) but there are lots of others, and they don't lock you in to being a vassal of the great vampire squid of computers."

Some of us don't see them as that though Bernard, we know the economics of using Macs is actually very good, I used my last Mac Pro for SEVEN YEARS before I changed it, not bad ROI really is it?

[Bernard Newnham] "I can't imagine why anyone would want to lock themselves in to one company."

Consumer choice Bernard - in 25 years of editing I have never had a more reliable edit experience than the time I have spent with FCPX, I am VERY happy with iOS as a system. I never feel locked in because I ALWAYS have a choice.

[Bernard Newnham] "I don't care who makes it, but I won't be dictated to by a manufacturer. "

I've never been dictated too by Apple because I've always had the choice not to use Apple products.

[Bernard Newnham] "an early adopter at one of the world's greatest broadcasters"

A broadcaster which I believe is actually increasing it's use of Macs and FCPX?

[Bernard Newnham] "What's in it for you Bill, and all those other Apple cheerleaders here?
"


Reliable systems, fast NLE, great security, good ROI, excellent phones with very good camera, secure phone OS, AirPods, very useable smartwatches and a well connected ecosystem between them all.

Is that enough?

BTW this IS an FCPX forum, why are you surprised that people like Apple here :)


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Bernard Newnham
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 7, 2018 at 12:52:04 pm

Thank you, good research material

Bernie

PS - you paid Β£1000 for a phone? I got a OnePlus3 (phone of the year 2016 in some mags) and a trip for two to Marrakech for that much. Still, it takes all kinds.


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Steve Connor
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 7, 2018 at 1:37:26 pm

[Bernard Newnham] "PS - you paid Β£1000 for a phone?"

Certainly did! quality of the 4K video is so good that I've been billing it to clients as a "C" camera and it paid for itself in 4 months.

Different world now Bernard, enjoy your research :)


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Bernard Newnham
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 7, 2018 at 7:22:55 pm

I hope you held it the right way round

Bernie


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Oliver Peters
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 7, 2018 at 7:34:38 pm

[Bernard Newnham] "I hope you held it the right way round"

You mean vertical, just like Philo intended TV to be seen?
☺

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Bernard Newnham
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 8, 2018 at 8:42:26 am
Last Edited By Bernard Newnham on Aug 8, 2018 at 4:28:43 pm

Baird too -



I recorded some work stuff on a phone a few months ago, because I was too busy at that moment to go hunting a proper camera. Big mistake. It doesn't matter whether you spent Β£2 or Β£2000 on the phone, and record in 640x480 or 8k, physics says the tiny lens and tiny chip mean you aren't going to get a high class result. Ok for YouTube, I suppose. I should have stopped and gone to get my favourite of the available cameras - a Canon XF305 - and done the job properly. I edited in Resolve.

Bernie


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Bill Davis
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 8, 2018 at 7:06:22 pm

But that's not a failure of a camera. It's the failure of a shooter.

Give an unschooled knucklehead a Millennium DXL and they'll produce crap footage 100% of the time.

Give a skilled shooter an iPhone - and you'll typically get exceptional results that can easily stand toe to toe with the best of the general purpose cameras of yesterday.

Why? Because the smart shooter comes to understand both the capabilities and limitations of the device. And work to maximize their results within its abilities.

Sure a better camera will let a better camera operator address edge case anomalies and come away from a marginal shooting situation with better results.

But turn a modern RED, a DSLR, or an iPhone at the same beautiful scene - and you'll very likely come away with three different equally beautiful recordings. Modern camera ALL easily get you to 90% of the way to the goal of understanding and appreciating it's essence as a beautiful scene.

That's just the world we live in today. The Delta is decreasing between them. Sure, that last 10% which is a stew of precision, fine control, and ease of use is both costly and CRAZY hard to get past - and there are times when a "serious" camera will get you much closer, faster to closing that gap - particularly in production setting. But the truth is, most of the "code" to capturing and storing digital versions of real world scenes is cheaper and easier to access than it's ever before been in human history.

And the Drone mounted GoPro or an iPhone in a climbers pocket - that can reach a stunning vista inexpensively is often superior to a 30lb Red Rig that can't.

That's how I see it. YMMV.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 8, 2018 at 7:50:51 pm

[Bill Davis] "But turn a modern RED, a DSLR, or an iPhone at the same beautiful scene - and you'll very likely come away with three different equally beautiful recordings. Modern camera ALL easily get you to 90% of the way to the goal of understanding and appreciating it's essence as a beautiful scene."

Nope. Not even close. Sure, take a 4K image and resize it to HD and encode to 4 Mbps H264 and they all look the same. But viewed at 1:1 on a 4K native display with minimal compression and it's a WORLD of difference. The difference is precision versus impressionism. Often impressionist is nice. But most of our clients pay us for precision.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Bill Davis
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 9, 2018 at 5:08:04 pm

[Oliver Peters] "But viewed at 1:1 on a 4K native display with minimal compression and it's a WORLD of difference."

Is it?

The reality is that "destination viewing" - which has always been the primary target for high raster content - is declining in importance. Big screen use is giving way to small screen use. I'd argue that content portability has already proved to be MORE important than content image density. At least in most real world viewing situations.

Most people would rather pay $10 a month for a Netflix subscription than $50-80 for a family of 4 to go to the movies. So at least some form of commpressed delivery will rule the day for the foreseeable future (at least until the whole world gets wired with fiber, anyway.)

If carrying a 4k (or 6k or 8k lightly compressed image from camera to screen becomes "frictionless" - then sure, we'll see it ascend. But to the extent there's still a premium charged JUST for high raster production, I have my doubts whether or not it will end up being the key to success at all.

The audience for that type of "premium viewing experience" is kinda fickle. Which is why only a few theaters in most markets are branded and promoted based on qualitative metrics.

Ask the market. Type in "premium movie theatre" in Google for your area and you're NOT going to get a listing of technically better projection systems - what you'll get is a list of movie theaters with comfy chair-side delivered food service a (accommodating FEWER viewers at higher prices!) - THAT is what the industry thinks is their differentiator now.

Oh well.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 9, 2018 at 6:31:50 pm

[Bill Davis] "Most people would rather pay $10 a month for a Netflix subscription than $50-80 for a family of 4 to go to the movies."

Why do you think it is that Netflix requires 4K content for its originals with very narrow list of approved cameras?

[Bill Davis] "The audience for that type of "premium viewing experience" is kinda fickle. Which is why only a few theaters in most markets are branded and promoted based on qualitative metrics."

I'm not even talking about a premium audience. I'm talking about basic corporate stuff and web-based infortainment. Even reality TV. The most oft-stated reason to shoot 4K is to be able to punch in. When you punch in at 1:1 on a high quality 4K camera image versus a DJI/GoPro/iPhone/etc image, there's a world of difference. One is acceptable and the other is not. This is also true of most DSLRs, including something like an A7S.

I work with that stuff daily. The reason it's not acceptable is that there truly is NOT 4K worth of resolution in their "4K" image. At 1:1 you see compression artifacts from the highly compressed file. And you see extensive banding and excessive smoothing on things like color gradients in the skin on someone's face. That's because of the crappy color system they use and how the software has to fudge the recording.

I get way more mileage out of manipulating an image from any high-quality camera than I do from these marginal cameras. That's not even getting into things like lack of proper motion blur, rolling shutter artifacts, lens distortion, and the fact that a camera like an iPhone by default doesn't record with proper synchronization. Quite frankly, the original HD image from a Canon 5D looked far more pleasing at 1:1 than any of this new crop. Even in spite of line binning.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Steve Connor
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 10, 2018 at 11:00:47 am

[Oliver Peters] "I get way more mileage out of manipulating an image from any high-quality camera than I do from these marginal cameras. That's not even getting into things like lack of proper motion blur, rolling shutter artifacts, lens distortion, and the fact that a camera like an iPhone by default doesn't record with proper synchronization. Quite frankly, the original HD image from a Canon 5D looked far more pleasing at 1:1 than any of this new crop. Even in spite of line binning.
"


Sadly, in the real world. A lot of us don't get the budgets to regularly work with "high-quality" cameras as much as we'd like.

Despite what you say there is a LOT you can do with "marginal" cameras to get the best from them when you have to.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 10, 2018 at 12:16:30 pm

[Steve Connor] "Despite what you say there is a LOT you can do with "marginal" cameras to get the best from them when you have to."

I'm not saying out can't. And I, too, sadly, have to work with material from these cameras. My point is merely that you can't compare the two quality levels and believe that an inferior image is better than a superior one. We all have to make the best out of the situation. Often portability is the main concern. But given the budget and flexibility, I would hope that good quality is somewhere towards the top of the list.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 10, 2018 at 4:01:55 pm

[Oliver Peters] " I would hope that good quality is somewhere towards the top of the list."

Good enough quality is towards the top of the list. ;)


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Oliver Peters
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 10, 2018 at 4:09:00 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "Good enough quality is towards the top of the list. ;)"

As a producer friend has often reminded me: "It's better than good. It's done!"

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 10, 2018 at 4:23:50 pm

[Oliver Peters] "As a producer friend has often reminded me: "It's better than good. It's done!""

lol

I need to remember that one.


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Bill Davis
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 10, 2018 at 9:40:19 pm
Last Edited By Bill Davis on Aug 10, 2018 at 10:08:37 pm

[Oliver Peters] "I work with that stuff daily. The reason it's not acceptable is that there truly is NOT 4K worth of resolution in their "4K" image. "

And there was CERTAINLY not 4k worth of resolution in any camera that recorded "The Tonight Show" in it's decades under Carson - yet it somehow those guys made plenty of money with that substandard system.

My point is NOT that quality doesn't matter anymore. Just that it's not the gatekeeper to success that it used to be (if it EVER was.)

The key to success is, and always will be, the ability to turn an XX dollar investment, into a XXXX dollar return.

Do that and you get to keep going. Don't do it, and you're forced to stop. Be crazy good at what you do, or merely get lucky and turn XX dollars into XXXXX dollars - and suddenly you're in a position where the cost of tools rapidly become negligible in relation to your ability to generate a return that has an even better chance of generating XXXXX dollars next time. That's sorta the Morgan Spurlock Rule.

I saw a backstage piece featuring some shots of his operation at either NAB or ComiCon this year (can't remember which) and his suite looked just like one I'd expect to see at NBC. And I KNOW he didn't do SuperSize me in that environment. He GREW into it.

My point is that while there's little to no barrier to using the best cameras you can AFTER you've achieved a robust measure of success, the Camera seldom was or will be the primary factor. Ever.

If it was, every project shot on Red would be more successful than every project shot on a GoPro - and we all know that just isn't true.

And in certain markets (action sports viral videos are a good example) the better camera makes production so much more difficult as to suppress the ability to deliver the work that needs to be delivered.

Once again, this whole thing is a rehash of the old "THIS is how PROFESSIONAL production must work" tropes - and it just isn' anymore. A particular project may absolutely justify and even require the DXL to make sense. But more gigs every day simply don't. So viewing professionalism through one (cost level) of lens - is a lingering BAD habit, IMO. It's kinda "*I* work with these tools - and I'm a Pro - therefore Pros must work with similar tools.

I understand that the answer to that contention should be maybe - but am always surprised by how many do NOT allow for the maybe not.

Those are the guys who keep hauling big cameras tethered to OB vans out to press conferences, while the kids come in with iPhones and get stuff on the air and on the web in a fraction of the time.

Such is life.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 10, 2018 at 11:30:01 pm

[Bill Davis] "If it was, every project shot on Red would be more successful than every project shot on a GoPro - and we all know that just isn't true."

Except then you have guys like Devinsupertramp who shoot their YouTube videos on RED.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 11, 2018 at 1:05:59 pm
Last Edited By Oliver Peters on Aug 11, 2018 at 1:07:59 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Except then you have guys like Devinsupertramp who shoot their YouTube videos on RED"

BTW - speaking of quality and YouTube...







Not exactly shot with an iPhone.

Shot on a RED Monstro VV, and cut and graded in FCP X and DaVinci Resolve.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Michael Gissing
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 12, 2018 at 11:46:36 pm

One of the most pleasing aspects of this is 60p making movement and motion within shots, like water and wind so fluid. However I started watching it in HD and the wind through the grasses was awful!


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Steve Connor
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 8, 2018 at 7:42:10 pm

[Bernard Newnham] "a Canon XF305 - and done the job properly"

We have those for conference shooting, in daylight my iPhone is better quality :)


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Tony West
Re: Apple apparently keeps stumbling it's way to success, somehow πŸ˜‰..
on Aug 3, 2018 at 11:13:26 pm

[Bob Zelin] "One day Apple will "teach" every human being how to edit. EVERYONE will edit. And just like there is a small market for professional writers (and there will continue to be a small market for professional editors) - the VAST MAJORITY of what we do for a living will disappear. "

I enjoy reading your post Bob. You're an insightful veteran of this biz.

While agree that there have been changes for sometime now with the technology and most of the post houses in my town have long shuttered, the technology giveth and taketh away. On the giving part, the 100th PGA begins in my town next week. I worked it back in 1992 for CBS when that was the only feed coming out of here for the tournament. This time there will be Directtv, and CBSSN also and pretty much everybody that wants to work will be out there and then some. The Show Book is 83 pages this year. My point is, it's gotten so much bigger and it was the biggest thing I had ever worked on back then. High end production on HBO, Prime, Netflix. I can't even count them all let alone watch them all. I know you are tongue in cheek a bit, but everyone won't edit because everyone doesn't care to. Folks can buy a cheap camera but it still takes money to get in the game. Need sound, lighting and all the latest toys that people expect to see you use. That's why I don't come in with a phone or even a DSLR. You are gonna have to spend some money to catch me. I liken it to an arms race. Companies look at all the gear and say to themselves, "do we want to buy all THAT for the few videos we do a year?

All software companies dumb it down for folks. They all do it. Apple just does it better imho.

I don't like their business practices one bit and I trash them on that the same as I do any other selfish knucklehead that doesn't do their part to put back into this country that helped make them what they are.


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