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time-remap equivalent or workflow

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Andy Engelkemier
time-remap equivalent or workflow
on Jan 26, 2017 at 4:08:44 pm

I've been getting by without, or just using After Effects. But it's one of those things where I've always thought, "there's Got to be a better way."

In AfterEffects, I can take a clip, decide where some key portions of motion are and place keyframes with the time-remap tool, then just move those keyframes to the time I need them to hit.
For those that aren't familiar with AE, I'm marking several portions of my clip, then just moving that to the proper spot on the timeline and the software automatically adjusts the speed of the clip so that portion of the clip matches that time. It's Really quite easy, and precise.

In Premiere, I can adjust the speed, but that changes the duration of a clip. And the things are always working against eachother. But I can't seem to figure out how to get a specific frame to happen at a specific point in the timeline. It's just kind of trial and error.

Is there a workflow I'm missing? All the tutorials out there about changing the speed in Premiere seem too simple, and most of them even make me wonder if the person even understands the tool. Many of them are just haphazardly saying, "you can click here and drag this to make it go faster or slower however you like." Yay, thanks. That's about as useful as describing an audio equalizer as, "you can move these up and down however you like," to someone who doesn't know how an equalizer works.

I remember doing something more precisely back in school....in 2002....but the software has changes just a little since then, and I can't remember what I did then.


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Dan Powers
Re: time-remap equivalent or workflow
on Jan 26, 2017 at 4:43:55 pm

I am just going to add to this by saying we need this time remap of PPro to more closely match what is in After Effects.
After Effects time mapping and keyframing is superior. It makes no sense to have two completely different time mapping methodologies in two applications made by the same company and two apps that are supposed to work hand in hand.

Now, Andy, did you notice that there are drag handles on the keyframes? They define the crude time ramping region when dragging them left and right.


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Alex Udell
Re: time-remap equivalent or workflow
on Jan 26, 2017 at 5:04:32 pm

discreet edit* had super simple time remapping that was really teriffic...

X-Y axis Graph

Y Axis = media frames

X axis = clip segment time

Add keyframes where needed, drag keyframe to desired position to show the media you needed to see at that point...

super simple ease curve handles...

miss it lots....

Alex Udell
Editing, Motion Graphics, and Visual FX
Let's Connect on Linkedin
Examples: Retail Automotive Motion Graphics Spots
Example: Customer Facing Explainer Video
Example: Infotainment & Package editorial


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Herb Sevush
Re: time-remap equivalent or workflow
on Jan 27, 2017 at 7:51:01 pm

[Alex Udell] "discreet edit* had super simple time remapping that was really teriffic..."

Stop it, you're gonna make me cry. Again.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Andy Engelkemier
Re: time-remap equivalent or workflow
on Jan 26, 2017 at 6:21:00 pm

Here's the best workflow I've figured out for myself so far:

First, I HAVE to work left to right.
I go through the video and add a time remapping speed keyframe wherever an action ends. Then I'm going the the music, or another clip I want to match to, from left to right, and adjusting the speed between those keyframes by showing the time remapping on the clip from within the sequence timeline. Drag the line up/down to increase/decrease speed until the next keyframe aligns with the time in needs to align with.

Whatever is coming up just seems Really imprecise. And if you want the time change to be gradual? Dream on. When you change one side, it effects the other as well. And the handles in the middle are pretty damn wonky. It looks like it starts off linear, and you just tilt that bezier looking widget and it makes the dual looking keyframe more of an ease/ease.

It all just seems really clumsy to me, so I wondered if my workflow was just no good. I haven't found anything that is remapping to try and match something else. Back in school I remember I recorded myself playing piano from several angles, then put those all together. Then I matched each key press with the note. I remembered it working more like AE. But now, that seems like it would be incredibly painful.

If anyone could shed some light, I'd really appreciate it.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: time-remap equivalent or workflow
on Jan 26, 2017 at 5:58:52 pm

PP has a Fit-To-Fill feature. Set an in & out in the timeline. Set an in & out on the clip. If the durations don't match, PP will tell you when you use the "," or "." keyboard shortcuts to add the clip to the timeline. Select Fit to fill.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Andy Engelkemier
Re: time-remap equivalent or workflow
on Jan 26, 2017 at 6:25:53 pm

I'm not sure I follow dave. Wouldn't that mean I'd have to split my clip for every area of a clip I want to remap to?
Sure, I could just split the clip and use the rate stretch tool as well, to accomplish what I Think you're saying. But then my timeline would be Filled with tiny short, relatively unmanageable, clips. And if you later realize you put the split in slightly the wrong area, you run into some big troubles, AND you'd likely end up with frame dropping/duplication at every cut.

That method is fine if you're rate stretching ONE clip. And that's what everyone online seems to show. They have a few ways of speeding up/slowing down one clip. And then they mention the ability to add keyframes and quickly show that you Can do it. But there's a difference, a BIG difference between showing that you can do something, and showing how.

Like, in photoshop you can select things with the lasso tool. I would then show you how. Then I would say, Oh, and you could use the pen tool also, and all I do is show you that I could click around a little bit making a rough shape without explaining anything behind how it works.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: time-remap equivalent or workflow
on Jan 26, 2017 at 6:50:44 pm

I think you want the impossible out of PP. It's just an editing application.

Editing applications aren't great at effects. They have a limited pallette, so to speak. You want to do what you're proposing? Stick with AE.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Andy Engelkemier
Re: time-remap equivalent or workflow
on Jan 26, 2017 at 7:21:30 pm

Do you work for Adobe? That's about the response I always get from them regarding just about anything.

My impression of Adobe:
You want something to work better? No, just use something else that better suites your needs. We aren't interested in making things work better. We'd rather just throw a new features in here and there that people won't use, to make them think they need every version of our software even though it hasn't really changed all that much in the last 5 years. Like, 3D printing inside of Photoshop. Because that seems like a great use of resources, and people will Definitely use that. 3D printers definitely don't come with their own software that works better than what we could supply.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: time-remap equivalent or workflow
on Jan 26, 2017 at 7:45:23 pm
Last Edited By Dave LaRonde on Jan 26, 2017 at 10:14:25 pm

[Andy Engelkemier] "Do you work for Adobe? That's about the response I always get from them regarding just about anything."

HA!!!! That's a good one! You're a funny guy!



[Andy Engelkemier] "You want something to work better? No, just use something else that better suites your needs. We aren't interested in making things work better. We'd rather just throw a new features in here and there that people won't use, to make them think they need every version of our software even though it hasn't really changed all that much in the last 5 years."

Oh, I agree totally with your estimation. It's been that way since Creative Suite came out, and it's only gotten worse with Creative Cloud. If you use the latest versions, you become part of the Adobe Unpaid Beta Tester Program.

But look -- Not every piece of software can have every feature. You want to screw around with speed? Do it the right way and get yourself a Teranex box -- very pricey. No budget for it? Suck it up and use software that can do it, like AE.

Add something ELSE to PP? Hell, Adobe's got problems enough not breaking features that used to work. Adding more features is like adding more garbage to a dumpster fire.

Frankly, I don't like all the needless bells & whistles in PP. Nor do I use them. Keep the software clean, I say. Just make the features in it WORK FOR EVERYBODY.... which would stun the world.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Alex Udell
Re: time-remap equivalent or workflow
on Jan 27, 2017 at 12:31:42 am

hi....

fit to fill is constant speed changes...
time re-mapping is ramping....

PPro has ramping...
it's best handled by enabling the curves on the clips in the timeline....
but even there, it's pretty cumbersome... when playing the clip forward....
try to work out some complex forward and reverse compound time mapping? ugh....pretty painful...

while many times I agree that heavy duty fx should be delegated to AE...
here....I have to say that speed changes can be related directly to pacing an edit...and well...that's editing...

as a feature, it should be available in both tools.
it should be cross compatible in both tools....(if you do something in PPro, it shouldn't be lost in the translation to AE)

and it should have a better interface and workflow.

that's pretty much my .02.

And I otherwise enjoy many things about PPro...but this ain't one of them.

Alex Udell
Editing, Motion Graphics, and Visual FX
Let's Connect on Linkedin
Examples: Retail Automotive Motion Graphics Spots
Example: Customer Facing Explainer Video
Example: Infotainment & Package editorial


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Dave LaRonde
Re: time-remap equivalent or workflow
on Jan 27, 2017 at 12:40:10 am

[Alex Udell] "as a feature, it should be available in both tools.
it should be cross compatible in both tools....(if you do something in PPro, it shouldn't be lost in the translation to AE)"


Perhaps so, but Adobe bought both applications from other developers. They have totally different ways of handling media, and guess what Adobe's never gotten around to resolving Lo these many years?

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Alex Udell
Re: time-remap equivalent or workflow
on Jan 27, 2017 at 12:48:16 am

Yep...I agree...

they have different origins.

Interchangeable?

Sure they have....the AE and PPro project cores were aligned at the development of CS...

I can select clips and sequences and copy and paste from one application to the other all day long...

and many, many attributes are carried over.

not to mention project level interchange....

it CAN be done...but as you often point out...IF it will ever be addressed is an entirely a different scenario...

:)

Alex Udell
Editing, Motion Graphics, and Visual FX
Let's Connect on Linkedin
Examples: Retail Automotive Motion Graphics Spots
Example: Customer Facing Explainer Video
Example: Infotainment & Package editorial


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Dave LaRonde
Re: time-remap equivalent or workflow
on Jan 27, 2017 at 1:09:49 am

...and far be it from Adobe to compete with Vegas!

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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