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Capturing analogue video (VHS) into Premiere - best workflow advice?

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Michael Trenton
Capturing analogue video (VHS) into Premiere - best workflow advice?
on Jan 19, 2017 at 10:11:48 pm

So I'm planning to digitize a few hundred hours worth of VHS footage and wondering what would be the best workflow for going about this.

Ideally I want to do it directly through Premiere if this is at all possible, but I'm open for other solutions as well.
I have a regular consumer VHS deck available so I'm guessing I'll have to buy some sort of analogue capture card for starters? Any suggestions as to what make/model are more than welcome. Seems to me most professional ones are usually expensive SDI based ones rather than SCART/S-video which I need. And the ones that does have s-video seems to be very consumer oriented (like MAGIX Rescue Your Videotapes package etc) and possibly proprietary to the included software (or can Premiere work directly with those?)

Any other solution would be to go with one of the all in one packages (like the afore mentioned MAGIX Rescue Your Videotapes) and digitize all of the tapes through the included software. My worries about such a solution is whether the quality of the included capture card and conversion from analogue to digital is handled well enough to retain as much quality as possible from the VHS tapes.

Any advice on this and suggested workflows are much appreciated. ☺


Premiere Pro CC2015.3
Windows 8.1 Pro


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Ann Bens
Re: Capturing analogue video (VHS) into Premiere - best workflow advice?
on Jan 19, 2017 at 10:30:38 pm

Premiere only captures through firewire
The best way to go is to get yourself a Grass Valley converter to capture all your tapes.
http://www.videoguys.com/blog/which-grass-valley-video-converter-is-right-f...

-----------------------------------------------
Adobe Certified Expert Premiere Pro CS6/CC
Adobe Community Professional


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Michael Trenton
Re: Capturing analogue video (VHS) into Premiere - best workflow advice?
on Jan 19, 2017 at 11:11:48 pm

Thanks! I checked your link and the Grass Valley ADVC55 seems to be the perfect solution for me.

EDIT: Seems it's discontinued by the manufacturer though, but hopefully I can get my hands on one from a reseller that ships internationally though.


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andy patterson
Re: Capturing analogue video (VHS) into Premiere - best workflow advice?
on Jan 20, 2017 at 12:00:21 am

[Ann Bens] "Premiere only captures through firewire
The best way to go is to get yourself a Grass Valley converter to capture all your tapes.
http://www.videoguys.com/blog/which-grass-valley-video-converter-is-right-f....."


The Grass Valley converters are easy to use an work great for standard definition but for the price the Blackmagic Design Intensity Shuttle offers more bang for the buck. I have the Grass Valley ADVC110 and the Intensity Shuttle both but I don't use my ADVC110 anymore. I wish I had bought the Intensity Shuttle five years ago.


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andy patterson
Re: Capturing analogue video (VHS) into Premiere - best workflow advice?
on Jan 19, 2017 at 11:55:17 pm

For the price it is hard to beat the Blackmagic Design Intensity Shuttle. It is not the easiest capture card to use but it works great with FCPX, Premiere Pro CC, Edius, Avid etc.







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Michael Trenton
Re: Capturing analogue video (VHS) into Premiere - best workflow advice?
on Jan 20, 2017 at 8:18:20 am

Given that the Green Grass products apparently are discontinued I think the Black Magic Intensity Shuttle is my best option. Thanks!


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andy patterson
Re: Capturing analogue video (VHS) into Premiere - best workflow advice?
on Jan 20, 2017 at 9:19:21 am

You might be able to find the ADVC 110 at B & H Photo or newegg.com. DV converters are easy to use. No Drivers needed but the Intensity Shuttle is a better bang for the buck. I would recommend getting and old SD TV. VHS looks horrible on an HD monitor or computer monitor. I love using the Intensity Shuttle along with an old SD TV for editing VHS tapes in real-time for clients.


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Michael Trenton
Re: Capturing analogue video (VHS) into Premiere - best workflow advice?
on Jan 20, 2017 at 2:54:20 pm

After doing some thinking I decided to order the Intensity Shuttle as I think you're definitely right it provides the most bang for the buck and will likely also be of more use to me even after I'm done with this current VHS project than one of the firewire based Grass Valley products will. Thanks for the tip!


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Jeff Pulera
Re: Capturing analogue video (VHS) into Premiere - best workflow advice?
on Jan 20, 2017 at 8:32:37 pm

Hi Michael,

Please be aware that the Shuttle can be fussy about which particular USB 3.0 chip set your computer has inside - it may or may not work unfortunately. If you have issues, the Intensity Pro 4K has the exact same functionality as its external brother, but goes into a PCI-e slot in your desktop, and uses a less-convenient breakout cable arrangement. But does the same thing.

Upon further investigation, you may just need to update the USB driver if you have trouble, see this thread - https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/124/879920

Thanks

Jeff Pulera
Safe Harbor Computers


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Trevor Asquerthian
Re: Capturing analogue video (VHS) into Premiere - best workflow advice?
on Jan 20, 2017 at 9:34:45 pm

I would think you'd need a TBC too - or at least a VHS with a built in TBC, otherwise you'd get rolling/ unlocked pictures. I do need to capture some family VHS so if this is possible with domestic VCRs I'd love to hear...



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andy patterson
Re: Capturing analogue video (VHS) into Premiere - best workflow advice?
on Jan 21, 2017 at 4:10:52 am

[Trevor Asquerthian] "I would think you'd need a TBC too - or at least a VHS with a built in TBC, otherwise you'd get rolling/ unlocked pictures. I do need to capture some family VHS so if this is possible with domestic VCRs I'd love to hear..."

If the tape is really worn out it might be needed but I have not needed a TBC for the Intensity Shuttle or the ADVC 110.


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Michael Trenton
Re: Capturing analogue video (VHS) into Premiere - best workflow advice?
on Jan 21, 2017 at 11:01:38 pm

''Please be aware that the Shuttle can be fussy about which particular USB 3.0 chip set your computer has inside - it may or may not work unfortunately. If you have issues, the Intensity Pro 4K has the exact same functionality as its external brother, but goes into a PCI-e slot in your desktop, and uses a less-convenient breakout cable arrangement. But does the same thing.''

Hi Jeff! Thanks for making me aware of the internal PCI based Intensity Shuttle Pro 4K.
When I googled the Pro 4K at first I thought it would make the most sense to go for that instead of the external USB based Instensity Shuttle due to, as you mentioned, the USB being possibly finicky and also the support for 4K making it more future proof, but then I saw some reviews claiming that it's fitted with a small fan that apparently runs very loud (to the point of being almost unbearable according to one reviewer) and this had me a bit worried and raised a few questions.

Does the fan run all the time (even when the card is not under load?) Does the fan really run that loud? And does it run that loud all the time or is it only running loud when the device is being pushed really hard (e.g capturing 4K at 10-bit)?
I guess these worries makes me think maybe I ought to go for the fanless external USB based Intensity Shuttle for now.


''I would think you'd need a TBC too - or at least a VHS with a built in TBC, otherwise you'd get rolling/ unlocked pictures. I do need to capture some family VHS so if this is possible with domestic VCRs I'd love to hear...''

I see. I didn't foresee any problems of that sort, but once I get hold of the capture card I will first try recording directly from my domestic VCR at to see if it works fine or not without TBC and report back on my findings here in this thread.


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andy patterson
Re: Capturing analogue video (VHS) into Premiere - best workflow advice?
on Jan 21, 2017 at 4:06:49 am

[Michael Trenton] "After doing some thinking I decided to order the Intensity Shuttle as I think you're definitely right it provides the most bang for the buck and will likely also be of more use to me even after I'm done with this current VHS project than one of the firewire based Grass Valley products will. Thanks for the tip!"

You will be able to playback HD to an HD monitor with the Intensity Shuttle. As someone mentioned they have an Intensity 4K PCIE version. I like my USB Shuttle though. If you have questions post them here.


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Jan Janowski
Re: Capturing analogue video (VHS) into Premiere - best workflow advice?
on Jan 21, 2017 at 2:18:51 pm

Another vote for finding a VHS deck with TBC or Frame Sync...
I use a JVC HR-9911U and it has built in Frame Sync and NR.
(only thing it doesn't have is video controls)


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andy patterson
Re: Capturing analogue video (VHS) into Premiere - best workflow advice?
on Jan 21, 2017 at 10:59:37 pm

[Jan Janowski] "Another vote for finding a VHS deck with TBC or Frame Sync...
I use a JVC HR-9911U and it has built in Frame Sync and NR.
(only thing it doesn't have is video controls)"


You should post a few pictures of your setup if you can. Having said that what capture device do you use? I admit the Fire Wire IEEE DV converters are easy to use. No drivers needed just plug and play. I am actually working on a video that compares the ADVC 110 to the Intensity Shuttle.


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Michael Trenton
Re: Capturing analogue video (VHS) into Premiere - best workflow advice?
on Jan 21, 2017 at 11:32:07 pm

Regarding the Intensity Shuttle, does the included Express software allow me to monitor picture and audio real-time in full-screen while I record the VHS tapes (or will I need to hook up an additonal monitor to provide full screen playback)?


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andy patterson
Re: Capturing analogue video (VHS) into Premiere - best workflow advice?
on Jan 22, 2017 at 2:38:54 am

[Michael Trenton] "Regarding the Intensity Shuttle, does the included Express software allow me to monitor picture and audio real-time in full-screen while I record the VHS tapes (or will I need to hook up an additonal monitor to provide full screen playback)?"

You can view it on an NTSC broadcast monitor in real-time as you capture using the Intensity Shuttle. You can with the ADVC 110 as well. I should do some video tutorials.


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Jan Janowski
Re: Capturing analogue video (VHS) into Premiere - best workflow advice?
on Jan 22, 2017 at 1:38:41 pm

Have a simple system. MXO2 System. With JVC VHS as mentioned above, JVC DV playback , and DataVideo DAC-100 as a backup that has sat in a drawer since the MXO2 was installed....


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Jeff Pulera
Re: Capturing analogue video (VHS) into Premiere - best workflow advice?
on Jan 23, 2017 at 3:07:57 pm

It's quite possible the person complaining about fan noise quite simply has a bad fan...have not noticed any excessive fan noise at all. My computer already has a bunch of fans running, I don't notice anything additional from Intensity.

Old analog recordings can sometimes have playback issues, with jittery/unstable picture. That can be a problem for capturing, because the capture device will lose sync with an unstable source. Now, if your tapes are in good shape, then maybe no problem at all. However if there are issues, then a VCR with TBC can certainly help. I have a high-end consumer JVC S-VHS deck with TBC (forget the model, not at this location).

Thanks

Jeff Pulera


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andy patterson
Re: Capturing analogue video (VHS) into Premiere - best workflow advice?
on Jan 23, 2017 at 8:24:01 pm

[Jan Janowski] "Have a simple system. MXO2 System. With JVC VHS as mentioned above, JVC DV playback , and DataVideo DAC-100 as a backup that has sat in a drawer since the MXO2 was installed...."

I had a DAC 100. It was a good DV converter. The only cool thing about the Canopus ADVC 110 is it gets it's power from the Fire Wire cable. The Intensity Shuttle gets it's power from the USB 3.0 Cable.


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andy patterson
Re: Capturing analogue video (VHS) into Premiere - best workflow advice?
on Jan 23, 2017 at 8:27:19 pm

These two videos might be of some interest.













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Michael Trenton
Re: Capturing analogue video (VHS) into Premiere - best workflow advice?
on Jan 24, 2017 at 3:33:18 pm

So I recieved my Intensity Shuttle today (I went with the external one rather than the 4K Pro internal one) and unfortunately I've run into some issues.
Like someone mentioned previously the lack of TBC in my JVC HR-S6950 VHS deck is the likely culprit here. Basically the Intensity Shuttle itself seems to be working just fine, but the video is having loads of black flash frames (what I assume is dropped frames caused by the lack of TBC?). It will usually look just fine for a couple of minutes, then there will be a couple of minutes where there will be some minutes with lots of black flash frames and then it will look just fine again for the next few minutes. And so it goes, so that renders my captured footage unusable unfortunately.

So I'm a bit at a loss of what to do now really. Is the only solution to find some second hand higher end VHS player with inbuilt TBC? Or is there some other capture device on the market that has this inbuilt?

And is it even possible that those cheaper consumer based capture solutions (e.g. Magix Rescue Your Videotapes) are potentially better suited at handling this task? I mean if you needed a high end VHS deck with TBC in order to make Magix Rescue Your Videotapes work then I assume there would have been almost exclusively negative feedback on such a device from the majority of customers out there with non-TBC consumer VHS decks?



Btw
Nice videos comparing the Intensity Shuttle to the ADVC 110 there Andy. I was particularly surprised to learn GPU acceleration resulted in poorer image quality when monitoring.


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Michael Trenton
Re: Capturing analogue video (VHS) into Premiere - best workflow advice?
on Jan 24, 2017 at 7:36:59 pm

UPDATE:
I'm gonna buy an s-video to HDMI converter and see if that makes a difference. I know it's probably a long shot, but it's the only thing I can think of right now (with the exception of getting a VHS deck with TBC, but I'm not sure how readily available they are).

Something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Tendak-Composite-S-Video-Converter-Upscaler/dp/B00V2...


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andy patterson
Re: Capturing analogue video (VHS) into Premiere - best workflow advice?
on Jan 25, 2017 at 1:52:55 am

[Michael Trenton] "
Something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Tendak-Composite-S-Video-Converter-Upscaler/dp/B00V2....."


You can try it but I am not sure how good the image quality will be. Have you tried all the settings for the Intensity Shuttle?


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andy patterson
Re: Capturing analogue video (VHS) into Premiere - best workflow advice?
on Jan 25, 2017 at 1:50:03 am

[Michael Trenton] "
Btw
Nice videos comparing the Intensity Shuttle to the ADVC 110 there Andy. I was particularly surprised to learn GPU acceleration resulted in poorer image quality when monitoring."


Thanks. You paid close attention. Until PP CS 6 Premiere could not out put to IEEE Fire Wire devices. It can do it know but software mode might be the best option depending on the timeline. Since it only outputs to 720X480 you can probably drop down t 1/2 or 1/4 and still get a nice clean image on an NTSC monitor. If it is a standard definition timeline you will get plenty of real-time effects in software only mode. I am not to bumbed out about it. At least does out put anything to the DV converter.

Concerning the problems you are having a TBC would probably fix the problem but I cannot say for sure. Having said that have you tried downloading an older driver just to test things out? The drivers can be fussy at times.


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andy patterson
Re: Capturing analogue video (VHS) into Premiere - best workflow advice?
on Jan 25, 2017 at 4:06:30 am

Did you try to capture form a DVD player or a Blu-ray player? Those should work without any problems. It could be a driver issues. The Intensity Shuttle drivers can be fussy.


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Michael Trenton
Re: Capturing analogue video (VHS) into Premiere - best workflow advice?
on Feb 5, 2017 at 3:44:22 pm

Update:

I gave up on getting the Intensity Shuttle to work (wasn't able to test running the video via a DVD/Blu-ray player since none of mine have analogue in Connections) and instead bought the consumer based Magix Rescue Your Videotapes 8 solution which gets the job done.
It's a bit of a hassle though as the Magix software only allows for the videotapes to first be captured into their own proprietary format and then I have to export an MPEG2 file in order to use the file outside of their own software. Albeit it is time consuming and I'm sure inflicts some quality loss it does seem to work and offer decent enough picture quality (given the nature of the source material).


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Jan Janowski
Re: Capturing analogue video (VHS) into Premiere - best workflow advice?
on Feb 5, 2017 at 4:04:22 pm

I'm hesitant to say a different transverter will work due to TBC errors in your VHS deck. I have heard that sometimes using a camcorder with composite or SVideo input, in EE mode, and taking Firewire out sometimes minimizes some of the TBC error...

Hopefully your tapes are first generation, and not 'dubs'.... Dubs create all sorts of problems due to multiple TBC errors all beating against one another....

Looking for 1939 Indian Motocycle


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Michael Trenton
Re: Capturing analogue video (VHS) into Premiere - best workflow advice?
on Feb 5, 2017 at 4:44:17 pm

I'm hesitant to say a different transverter will work due to TBC errors in your VHS deck. I have heard that sometimes using a camcorder with composite or SVideo input, in EE mode, and taking Firewire out sometimes minimizes some of the TBC error...

Hopefully your tapes are first generation, and not 'dubs'.... Dubs create all sorts of problems due to multiple TBC errors all beating against one another....



Yes I didn't want to spend more money buying another pro converter due to me not having a TBC deck so that's why I took my chances with the consumer oriented Magix solution as I figured because most consumer VHS decks probably are no-TBC ones it wouldn't have made sense for Magix to sell a converter dependent upon a TBC deck to regular consumers.

I do have a working HDV camera laying about which accepts analogue video in through composite (no s-video unfortunately - the Magix converter has s-video though). So far I haven't tested if whether it's capable of outputting the video directly through firewire though (as I've thrown all my 4-pin FW cables out, but I've now ordered a new one for testing), or if I have to record onto a tape and then ingest the tape afterwards. However If it does work I'll have the advantage of recording DV stream quality. It will be through composite though and the Magix does video through s-video so I wonder if I will get any real quality bump by going the DV stream route (instead of Magix MPEG2 conversion) or if the quality loss from composite (VS Magix s-video) outweighs that advantage...?

My tapes are first generation, but they still look like crap on my computer screen, but I guess that's as expected given the source. Too bad I've not kept any CRT screens.


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Jan Janowski
Re: Capturing analogue video (VHS) into Premiere - best workflow advice?
on Feb 5, 2017 at 4:55:26 pm

Trust me.... After you get video captured, your next search will be for a Video Noise Reduction Plug-in !
If you find a good one that doesn't take all day to render.... Please post!!! :)!

Looking for 1939 Indian Motocycle


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