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Why so big a difference in "finished product" from one tv to another

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Duke SwedenWhy so big a difference in "finished product" from one tv to another
by on Feb 2, 2016 at 11:56:18 pm
Last Edited By Duke Sweden on Feb 3, 2016 at 1:25:51 pm

I just got a cheapo green screen kit w/lights for $95 bucks.

A little sloppy, of course, but my first attempt. This will also show exactly what I mean when I say I'm a "super noob below amateur don't even take me seriously" videographer ;-)

EDIT: I was going to remove this post, but something popped up and I have a question. I have a 32" 720p HDTV as my monitor. When I was done editing I was very pleased with how this looked, even after uploading it to youtube. But when I watched the youtube version on the tv in my bedroom, a 32" 1080p HDTV, using the youtube app, it looked awful. How can you know if your "finished product" will look basically the same on any tv?

P.S. That's my son. He's mentally handicapped so no jokes, please!







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Joe Barta IVRe: Why so big a difference in "finished product" from one tv to another
by on Feb 3, 2016 at 2:14:04 pm

What are the;
Original footage capture settings?
Sequence settings in Premiere?
Settings used to make export file?

This information will to figure out you problem. Also, YouTube takes what you upload to and re-processes it to their system for playback, a lot can happen during that procedure.

Joe

Living the SuiteLife!
Stuff for editors http://www.cafepress.com/suitelife

http://www.facebook.com/pages/SuiteLife/1524456414462851?ref=hl


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Tero AhlforsRe: Why so big a difference in "finished product" from one tv to another
by on Feb 3, 2016 at 2:39:51 pm

How exactly did it look awful? Compression? Color? There can be limitations on the smart tv app (eg. resolution might be capped) and there's probably a bunch of technical differences between your televisions.


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Chris WrightRe: Why so big a difference in "finished product" from one tv to another
by on Feb 3, 2016 at 2:48:26 pm

i would guess that since it looks ok on your color managed monitor, the TV needs some calibration. do both the TV and it's internet apps look ok except the youtube clip?

if it's just the new clip, you could try AE's utility profile converter and burn in rec 709.(0-255) (since youtube isn't color managed)


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Tero AhlforsRe: Why so big a difference in "finished product" from one tv to another
by on Feb 3, 2016 at 2:56:53 pm

You might also want to listen to this: https://soundcloud.com/mixinglight/mail-bag-ep1-part2


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Duke SwedenRe: Why so big a difference in "finished product" from one tv to another
by on Feb 3, 2016 at 3:20:19 pm

Wow, from nothing to 4 responses to respond to. OK...

Joe Barta IV: The original footage is just my son and me, h264, green screened against a picture of a parking garage. Sequence settings are the same as always, 1080p 23.976 fps, square pixels. Not sure what else to include. Export settings same as always, h264, min bitrate 30 mbps.

I know about youtube compression, but the youtube video looked almost the same as the original footage on my computer "monitor", nowhere near the same on my bedroom tv. The greenscreen images of my son and me were overly sharp, and the effect of the "lighting" was non-existent, compared to the video I included in this thread. Also, I've watched other people's videos on the tv app and they look fine. It has to be my (lack of) post production skills.

Tero: I added "Lights" in After Effects which you can see in the included video, which don't show up on the bedroom tv. They're there but there's no shadows cast on my son like in the video above. And, as I stated above, the green screen footage was way too oversharpened, which is not evident on the above video (on my computer monitor, anyway). I'm sure there's a bunch of technical differences between tv's but that brings me back to my original question. How do you compensate for that to ensure your video looks good regardless what tv it's playing on?

P.S. I will listen to that link you provided.

Chris Wright: I didn't know about this profile converter. I'll try it out. As for calibration, neither tv has been calibrated (I've never calibrated my tv's, I do it by eye and get satisfactory results). But if I'm watching a tv show downstairs, then go to my bedroom to watch the rest of it, I don't think "Ew, man, that looks terrible!" The same show on all 4 tv's looks basically the same, nowhere near as drastic a difference as I saw with this video.


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Tero AhlforsRe: Why so big a difference in "finished product" from one tv to another
by on Feb 3, 2016 at 3:26:26 pm

[Duke Sweden] "How do you compensate for that to ensure your video looks good regardless what tv it's playing on?"

You calibrate your work/reference monitor to the REC 709 specification. Also turn off all automagic "image enhancements" from the TVs and try to calibrate them. You can't do anything about other people's viewing conditions and that's pretty much what the link I posted is about.

[Duke Sweden] "I've never calibrated my tv's, I do it by eye and get satisfactory results"

Eyes are great relative tools but pretty bad when it comes to absolutes. That's where colori/spectrometers come in.


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Duke SwedenRe: Why so big a difference in "finished product" from one tv to another
by on Feb 3, 2016 at 4:47:37 pm

Thanks, Tero. I have to admit I have noticed in the past work done by professionals that looks terrible (commercials that are too flat or shows that are too contrasty), so it's not just me, and it's not such an easy thing to perfect. Cheers.


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Tero AhlforsRe: Why so big a difference in "finished product" from one tv to another
by on Feb 3, 2016 at 5:15:30 pm

[Duke Sweden] "commercials that are too flat or shows that are too contrasty"

These are artistic choices that are made by the director or the cinematographer and usually not technical flaws. The whole low contrast-look seems to be some new (and IMO quite dumb) trend.


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Duke SwedenRe: Why so big a difference in "finished product" from one tv to another
by on Feb 3, 2016 at 5:55:31 pm

I know what you're talking about and I agree, but the examples I'm talking about go beyond "artistic license" into just plain bad. I think the old H&R Block commercials from a year or two ago are a good example.


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Shane RossRe: Why so big a difference in "finished product" from one tv to another
by on Feb 3, 2016 at 6:03:08 pm

There is no way to color correct something that will look good on ALL TVs. Because you have no control over how those other TVs are set up. Walk into Best Buy...look at the wall of TVs. Normally they all play the same thing, so you can judge which one you watch. Note that most of them don't display the image in the same way. There's a color difference between them.

So there's nothing you can do other than make sure it looks good on a properly calibrated monitor. How others see it is up to them.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Tero AhlforsRe: Why so big a difference in "finished product" from one tv to another
by on Feb 3, 2016 at 6:22:03 pm

[Duke Sweden] "I know what you're talking about and I agree, but the examples I'm talking about go beyond "artistic license" into just plain bad."

But here's the thing: Is the problem actually on their end or the viewers end? There's all kinds of "image enhancement"-features in modern TVs that are just plain terrible and they are usually on by default.


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Jon DoughtieRe: Why so big a difference in "finished product" from one tv to another
by on Feb 4, 2016 at 9:20:26 pm

Duke, the more you dig into this the more you will find out how much "slips 'twixt the cup and the lip".

It is a rabbit hole you can dive down and never come out again!

What the gents said about proper setup on your main monitor to see accurate results is spot on. After that, there's no guarantee (zero, zip, none) that it will look right on another screen somewhere else. Heck they have set it up for the way they like their movies to look in a dark room, and see your video during the day, with all kinds of light spilling in from outside. That will change the viewing impression.

Too many variables, too many different TVs, many different manufacturers, ten gazillion different settings on each of them. Just do your best at your end; that, ultimately, is the best we can do!

System:
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Win 7 64-bit
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256GB SSD system drive
4 internal media drives RAID 5
Typically cutting short form from HD MP4 and P2 MXF.


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Duke SwedenRe: Why so big a difference in "finished product" from one tv to another
by on Feb 4, 2016 at 11:28:13 pm

Shakespeare! Right? ;-)

Yeah, I know, but how do I know if my monitor is calibrated correctly? Aside from that, as I've said before, my "art" is destined for my brother, and my 60 (where they came from I have no idea!) subscribers on youtube, so paying for a calibration is out of the question. The only reason I even started this thread is because my video looked so drastically different on my other tv. Not just color but the oversharpened green screen layer, which looked fine on the computer.

Anyway, for a cheapo solution, can I just calibrate my monitor to look exactly as the video file looks in my camera's LCD? It seems if I do that, then my monitor will show the unadorned clip, any post I do on the clip should look pretty good on any other tv. Right?


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Chris WrightRe: Why so big a difference in "finished product" from one tv to another
by on Feb 5, 2016 at 4:26:04 am

The old free adobe gamma calibration program cpl is still available. It's not professional because it uses your eyes to gauge relative color strength and brightness. Better than nothing though.


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Duke SwedenRe: Why so big a difference in "finished product" from one tv to another
by on Feb 5, 2016 at 11:48:46 am

Thanks, Chris, I'll check it out. I discovered the cause of the huge quality difference last night. We had a 5 second power outage a few days ago. Didn't even have to reset the clocks. But it was just long enough that when my bedroom tv came back on the Picture Profile switched from the custom one I calibrated back to the factory default, which was way too bright, AND, way too sharp, hence the reason my video looked way too bright, AND, way too sharp! When I switched it back to my settings my video looked a lot closer to what it should have.

Thanks for all your help, everybody. I will definitely look into that calibration program. Cheers!


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Duke SwedenRe: Why so big a difference in "finished product" from one tv to another
by on Feb 5, 2016 at 3:19:19 pm

I may as well close this out with the final version of my little video.






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