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Conforming 23.98 sequence to 29.97

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Eren GulfidanConforming 23.98 sequence to 29.97
by on Sep 12, 2015 at 7:49:20 pm

Hi there,

I am assisting an edit that has the following problem:

This is a 5-minute long episode. Most of the footage was shot on 23.89fps. Some was shot on 29.97. The project was edited on Premiere on a 23.98 timeline. Everything has been converted to Apple ProRes so no incompatibility there. The client wants this project to to be converted to 29.97 progressive (NOT interlaced). What's the best way to approach this? I read a ton of threads am pretty confused at this point. My plan was to:

1) Convert all the 23.98 footage to 29.97 using either Compressor or Twixtor. Which one is better? I read Shane Ross' tutorial on using Compressor to accomplish this but it's for interlaced video, not progressive.

2) Create a new sequence that's set to 29.97.

3) Copy paste the 23.98 timeline into the sequence.

4) Replace all clips with the newly conformed fps clips.

Do you think this will work?

Does anyone have any recommendations? Should I be purchasing Twixtor or is there a way to do this without that plugin? Any help is truly appreciated.


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David Roth WeissRe: Conforming 23.98 sequence to 29.97
by on Sep 12, 2015 at 8:41:34 pm

Before you do anything else, try dropping some of your 23.98 material into a timeline setup for 29.97, and then evaluate the results on a video monitor (not on a computer monitor), because you will want to see his the fields are displayed (you can't properly display fields on computer monitor).

If it looks good to your eye, then you're home free... Sometimes this simple method works, sometimes not, it all depends on the speed of the action, etc.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist & Workflow Consultant
David Weiss Productions
Los Angeles


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Eren GulfidanRe: Conforming 23.98 sequence to 29.97
by on Sep 12, 2015 at 9:44:05 pm

Thanks for the quick reply, David. I'll try that, though I'm not sure if the production house has a video monitor, I'll check.

The second step of this whole thing is that the client wants the project to be transferred from Premiere to FCP7. So I was going to do this XML transfer after I fix the FPS issue.

Do you think I should create a new sequence with the 29.97 setting on Premiere and then do the xml transfer. Or transfer it to FCP 7 first and then do the fps conform?


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David Roth WeissRe: Conforming 23.98 sequence to 29.97
by on Sep 12, 2015 at 10:13:28 pm

That adds a whole layer of difficulty for you. You're just going to have to try in both apps, that's all there is to it, because, as said before, the amount and type of movement is the critical variable, and you won't know what works until you look with your own eyeballs.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist & Workflow Consultant
David Weiss Productions
Los Angeles


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Eren GulfidanRe: Conforming 23.98 sequence to 29.97
by on Sep 13, 2015 at 9:44:59 pm

Hi David,

When I put the 23.98 sequence into a new 29.97 timeline on Premiere, some of the audio goes out of sync but I'm not getting any drop frames or black bars or anything. Does that mean the project conformed itself to 29.97 even though the clips in it are still 23.98?

But when I do a FCP7 output with XML, the audio is even more out of sync and I am also missing all my multicam clips? They don't transfer at all. Any idea why this may be? Thank you for all your help.


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Jon DoughtieRe: Conforming 23.98 sequence to 29.97
by on Sep 14, 2015 at 2:04:11 pm
Last Edited By Jon Doughtie on Sep 14, 2015 at 2:04:44 pm

I try to shoot for deliverables, so I don't run into this much. But I believe the workflow is to create a timeline with the final frame rate you desire. Place your footage in that timeline and Premiere Pro will handle the (in your case) 3:2 pulldown.

System:
Dell Precision T7600 (x2)
Win 7 64-bit
32GB RAM
Adobe CC 2014 (as of 7/2015)
256GB SSD system drive
4 internal media drives RAID 5
Typically cutting short form from HD MP4 and P2 MXF.


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Shane RossRe: Conforming 23.98 sequence to 29.97
by on Sep 14, 2015 at 6:16:30 pm

Note that there is no way to make 23.98p to 29.97p be smooth. There will be repeated frames, because you can't spread the extra 6 frames throughout the fields of 29.97 interlaced, known as 3:2 pulldown. The way many many feature films and TV shows shot on film deal with this issue. No, 24p to 30p...frames will have to be repeated, and it won't be smooth.

NOW...there are some solutions to make SOME of the video be smooth...frame blending. I know this can be accomplished in AE, but I'm not sure how. In Avid I add a speed effect, promote it, and use FRAME BLENDING in that interface. This works with talking heads, or shots with VERY LITTLE movement in them. If there is movement...driving, someone moving their hands to point, stuff like that, then a huge distortion around the thing moving happens. This is unavoidable....I tried this with Avid, I had an AE guru do it, and both had the same blob issue.

You can see if another AE artist has a solution to this, but it's a very tricky thing. It's an issue that makes online editors and post supervisors cringe, because we know there's little if anything that can be done.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Eren GulfidanRe: Conforming 23.98 sequence to 29.97
by on Sep 14, 2015 at 8:20:36 pm

Thanks, Shane. Great to hear from you. I've read a lot of your posts regarding this issue. You have a tutorial regarding fixing this issue by using compressor. Do you still endorse that? I was also going to give Twixtor a try. I know it only does a pulldown on video so I have to recut the audio.


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Eren GulfidanRe: Conforming 23.98 sequence to 29.97
by on Sep 14, 2015 at 8:23:25 pm

Thanks, Jon. Yeah Adobe Premiere Pro does make it look OK even though sound does go out of sync sometimes. But as I mentioned in my earlier post, I also need to do a transfer of this project into FCP upon the client's request and that's where things get tricky. So I'm trying to how to handle that. Should I create the new fps timeline on AP and do the FCP xml transfer afterwards or should I transfer to FCP and then create a new timeline on FCP? Thanks for all the input!


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