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Red Dragon 6K will not play at 1/4 resolution in PP2014 on 2014 I-mac 5K retina SSD, AMD Radeon R9 M295X 4096 MB Graphics card

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Jonas SmensgardRed Dragon 6K will not play at 1/4 resolution in PP2014 on 2014 I-mac 5K retina SSD, AMD Radeon R9 M295X 4096 MB Graphics card
by on Jun 7, 2015 at 10:42:29 pm
Last Edited By Jonas Smensgard on Jun 8, 2015 at 6:05:08 am

I just got the 2014 I-mac Retina 5K, 4GHz Intel Core i7, 16 GB Ram, AMD Radeon R9 M295X 4096 MB graphics card, and SSD hard drive, running Yosemite OS and PP 2014 latest update.

I am having issues with the Red Dragon 6K footage (anamorphic), it pays at full resolution (but stutters) runs a little smoother at 1/2 resolution (still stutters a little) but when I choose 1/4 or 1/8 the image gets totally distorted.

Is this possibly a video card issue? With the I-mac specs it I should be able to work at 1/4 resolution without any issues no?

Running the footage off of my desktop = from my internal SSD.

UPDATE. 8.52 Los Angeles time. Per thread recommendation. Ok got the external drive which is a 2 disk 0 raid LaCie 2Big v2 Thunderbolt and tried accessing footage from the drive instead. Exact same results as when I run it off my Imacs internal SSD... stuttering at full and 1/2 resolution and then garbled/distorted at 1/4 or 1/8... could it have anything to do with the material being Anamorphic? (I am an idiot when it comes to tech stuff so sorry if thats a stupid question...)

UPDATE 10.34 PM Los Angeles time. SOLUTION FOUND! Thanks Shane!!! This was my only issue "set PPro set to use OpenCL GPU acceleration right? You don't have it set for software only."

Figured out how to change it PP in project settings to use OpenCL GPU acceleration and now it plays great off of my 2 disk raid! No distorted image at 1/4 or 1/8 resolution but even better it now plays perfectly at 1/2 resolution and hardly stutters in full resolution! Yeah! (haha what a relief that it was just my ignorance and not the hardware or software :-)

Thanks a million everyone!!



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David Roth WeissRe: Red Dragon 6K will not play at 1/4 resolution in PP2014 on 2014 I-mac 5K retina SSD, AMD Radeon R9 M295X 4096 MB Graphics card
by on Jun 7, 2015 at 11:34:57 pm

You did not mention anything about your media drives... The hard drive subsystem is as important to seamless playback as any of the components you did mention. You have to divulge the type of drive (Thunderbolt, esata, usb 3, etc), how many are striped together, etc. before anyone can give you the help you're looking for.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Jonas SmensgardRe: Red Dragon 6K will not play at 1/4 resolution in PP2014 on 2014 I-mac 5K retina SSD, AMD Radeon R9 M295X 4096 MB Graphics card
by on Jun 7, 2015 at 11:44:55 pm

Good point. Right now the footage is on my desktop for the test so it is running off my internal SSD but I will be using a raided Lacie 2 big drive with thunderbolt for this project


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Shane RossRe: Red Dragon 6K will not play at 1/4 resolution in PP2014 on 2014 I-mac 5K retina SSD, AMD Radeon R9 M295X 4096 MB Graphics card
by on Jun 8, 2015 at 12:13:22 am

A single SSD drive is not fast enough. You need at least a 2 drive RAID, Thunderbolt connection. Firewire won't cut it either.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Jonas SmensgardRe: Red Dragon 6K will not play at 1/4 resolution in PP2014 on 2014 I-mac 5K retina SSD, AMD Radeon R9 M295X 4096 MB Graphics card
by on Jun 8, 2015 at 12:31:36 am

Thanks for the info! Ok hopefully thats my issue here - will pick up the raided drive in a couple of hours and test again, update will follow!

All the best,
Jonas


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Andrew KimeryRe: Red Dragon 6K will not play at 1/4 resolution in PP2014 on 2014 I-mac 5K retina SSD, AMD Radeon R9 M295X 4096 MB Graphics card
by on Jun 8, 2015 at 2:38:03 am

The iMac's internal SSD isn't a slouch. From looking on line it gets about 660MB/s write and 720MB/s read. I can playback 6K and 5K R3D clips at 1/4 and 1/2 res on my 2009 Mac Pro and my OWC RAID only does about 240MB/s read.

The clips playing back distorted is odd though. They should look lower res but not distorted.


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Shane RossRe: Red Dragon 6K will not play at 1/4 resolution in PP2014 on 2014 I-mac 5K retina SSD, AMD Radeon R9 M295X 4096 MB Graphics card
by on Jun 8, 2015 at 3:03:21 am

The OS drive might be fast, but it's busy running the OS. As soon as a system resource is needed, the playback is paused while the drive goes to access what it needs, then it returns.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Jonas SmensgardRe: Red Dragon 6K will not play at 1/4 resolution in PP2014 on 2014 I-mac 5K retina SSD, AMD Radeon R9 M295X 4096 MB Graphics card
by on Jun 8, 2015 at 3:52:08 am

UPDATE. Per recommendation. Ok got the external drive which is a 2 disk 0 raid LaCie 2Big v2 Thunderbolt and tried accessing footage from the drive instead. Exact same results as when I run it off my Imacs internal SSD... stuttering at full and 1/2 resolution and then garbled/distorted at 1/4 or 1/8... could it have anything to do with the material being Anamorphic? (I am an idiot when it comes to tech stuff so sorry if thats a stupid question...)


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David Roth WeissRe: Red Dragon 6K will not play at 1/4 resolution in PP2014 on 2014 I-mac 5K retina SSD, AMD Radeon R9 M295X 4096 MB Graphics card
by on Jun 8, 2015 at 4:00:34 am

[Jonas Smensgard] "UPDATE. Per recommendation. Ok got the external drive which is a 2 disk 0 raid LaCie 2Big v2 Thunderbolt and tried accessing footage from the drive instead. Exact same results as when I run it off my Imacs internal SSD... stuttering at full and 1/2 resolution and then garbled/distorted at 1/4 or 1/8... could it have anything to do with the material being Anamorphic? (I am an idiot when it comes to tech stuff so sorry if thats a stupid question...)"

Of course, as I wrote just minutes ago, a 2-drive RAID isn't gonna cut it - you need a 6 or preferably 8-drive array.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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David Roth WeissRe: Red Dragon 6K will not play at 1/4 resolution in PP2014 on 2014 I-mac 5K retina SSD, AMD Radeon R9 M295X 4096 MB Graphics card
by on Jun 8, 2015 at 3:53:34 am

[Shane Ross] "A single SSD drive is not fast enough. You need at least a 2 drive RAID, Thunderbolt connection. Firewire won't cut it either.
"


Shane is correct, except I think he's recommending an underpowered RAID, as two spinning disks just aren't going to provide enough throughput for editing RED 6K. A 6, or preferably 8-bay array is the minimum I would recommend.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Jonas SmensgardRe: Red Dragon 6K will not play at 1/4 resolution in PP2014 on 2014 I-mac 5K retina SSD, AMD Radeon R9 M295X 4096 MB Graphics card
by on Jun 8, 2015 at 4:39:45 am

Thanks for all the feedback!

Is the garbled/distorted image at 1/4 or 1/8 something that anyone else has experienced? Is it sure that it is a sign of a "too weak raid system"?


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David Roth WeissRe: Red Dragon 6K will not play at 1/4 resolution in PP2014 on 2014 I-mac 5K retina SSD, AMD Radeon R9 M295X 4096 MB Graphics card
by on Jun 8, 2015 at 4:56:28 am

It is possible you have other issues too, but I assure you, seamless playback of two to three streams of RED RAW 6K, with color FX and titles, etc., requires a beefy RAID array - and, don't forget all your audio trks, system overhead, etc, etc, etc...

If you have issues beyond media drive throughout, I think you'd have to post some images and provide some additional into that more precisely explains the issues.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Andrew KimeryRe: Red Dragon 6K will not play at 1/4 resolution in PP2014 on 2014 I-mac 5K retina SSD, AMD Radeon R9 M295X 4096 MB Graphics card
by on Jun 8, 2015 at 5:12:35 am

[Shane Ross] "The OS drive might be fast, but it's busy running the OS. As soon as a system resource is needed, the playback is paused while the drive goes to access what it needs, then it returns."

I know that was true with high density spinning disks but SSD seek time is typically faster by a factor of 10. If I have time tonight I'll drop some 5K/6K R3D files onto my 2011 MBP (which has an OWC SSD) and see what type of performance I get in PPro.

[David Roth Weiss] "Shane is correct, except I think he's recommending an underpowered RAID, as two spinning disks just aren't going to provide enough throughput for editing RED 6K. A 6, or preferably 8-bay array is the minimum I would recommend."

Not to be contrarian, but I can play back a single stream of 5K and 6K R3D footage at 1/2 on my 4-bay OWC RAID that gets about 240MB/s read. Just for kicks I stacked up 5 layers of 5K and 6K footage, resized and re-centered them so I can see them all and at 1/4 res my playback is a bit choppy but at 1/8 res I don't notice any dropped frames and my JKL response is only slightly laggy.

[Jonas Smensgard] "Is the garbled/distorted image at 1/4 or 1/8 something that anyone else has experienced? Is it sure that it is a sign of a "too weak raid system"?"

No, you should not have a garbled or distorted image. Try deleting your media cache, also sometimes just a reboot can fix random problems. And you do have PPro set to use OpenCL GPU acceleration right? You don't have it set for software only.


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Jonas SmensgardRe: Red Dragon 6K will not play at 1/4 resolution in PP2014 on 2014 I-mac 5K retina SSD, AMD Radeon R9 M295X 4096 MB Graphics card
by on Jun 8, 2015 at 5:17:19 am

Hey Shane! Thanks! I don't know if I have " PPro set to use OpenCL GPU acceleration right? You don't have it set for software only." How do I check this/set it up?


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Jonas SmensgardRe: Red Dragon 6K will not play at 1/4 resolution in PP2014 on 2014 I-mac 5K retina SSD, AMD Radeon R9 M295X 4096 MB Graphics card
by on Jun 8, 2015 at 5:34:02 am

Thanks Shane!!! This was my only issue "set PPro set to use OpenCL GPU acceleration right? You don't have it set for software only."

Figured out how to change it PP in project settings to use OpenCL GPU acceleration and now it plays great off of my 2 disk raid! No distorted image at 1/4 or 1/8 resolution but even better it now plays perfectly at 1/2 resolution and hardly stutters in full resolution! Yeah! (haha what a relief that it was just my ignorance and not the hardware software :-)

Thanks a million everyone!


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David Roth WeissRe: Red Dragon 6K will not play at 1/4 resolution in PP2014 on 2014 I-mac 5K retina SSD, AMD Radeon R9 M295X 4096 MB Graphics card
by on Jun 9, 2015 at 1:57:23 am

[Andrew Kimery] "Not to be contrarian, but I can play back a single stream of 5K and 6K R3D footage at 1/2 on my 4-bay OWC RAID that gets about 240MB/s read. Just for kicks I stacked up 5 layers of 5K and 6K footage, resized and re-centered them so I can see them all and at 1/4 res my playback is a bit choppy but at 1/8 res I don't notice any dropped frames and my JKL response is only slightly laggy."

No worries about being a contrarian Andrew, but what's good enough for you above is not good enough for me, and certainly not for most of my clients and customers. A single stream at 1/2 res doesn't cut it, and 5 streams a 1/8 certainly won't make the grade.

Of course any discussion regarding "what's good enough" definitely varies from Cow to Cow, as we have so many different levels of users here. And, while I am sensitive to the "do it yourself" crowd here, and the desire to be frugal, as a finishing editor, I never buy anything that doesn't provide full resolution, seamless playback of any codec I agree to work with on a paying job. Conversely, if I can't support a codec or a specific resolution, I will pass the job onto others I know who can.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Andrew KimeryRe: Red Dragon 6K will not play at 1/4 resolution in PP2014 on 2014 I-mac 5K retina SSD, AMD Radeon R9 M295X 4096 MB Graphics card
by on Jun 9, 2015 at 3:36:48 am

[David Roth Weiss] "No worries about being a contrarian Andrew, but what's good enough for you above is not good enough for me, and certainly not for most of my clients and customers. A single stream at 1/2 res doesn't cut it, and 5 streams a 1/8 certainly won't make the grade."

My point wasn't that my 1/8 playback was 'good enough' in terms of image quality, but that I could playback 5 streams at 1/8 res on relatively slow storage (240MB/s) yet he couldn't playback 1 stream at 1/8 res on his significantly faster storage (+700MB/s). The playback tests I did on my machine were purely for troubleshooting/comparison purposes and throughput didn't seem to be his problem. The distortion he was getting was also not something that usually happens if throughput is a bottle neck.

I agree that everyone has different needs and it seemed like getting smooth playback at 1/2 res would've met Jonas' so recommending higher end gear, which would be more in line with your needs, seems like it would've been overkill for Jonas' needs (and it wouldn't have fixed the problem anyway). I didn't see where he said he was online editing/finishing with this machine so 1/2 or 1/4 res playback for offline editing seems perfectly acceptable, IMO. Of course the last TV show I worked on was a mix of 4K and 1080p and the offline edit was done in SD so 1/2 (or even 1/4) res of a 6K file is way nicer than the offline/online situations I'm accustomed too. ;)


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Post removed by author on Jun 8, 2015 at 5:36:31 am.

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