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Editing with nested sequences... good or bad idea?

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Joshua PearsonEditing with nested sequences... good or bad idea?
by on May 29, 2015 at 4:03:16 pm

As outlined in my previous long-winded post, I am working on a long-form documentary and I would like to try editing in PPro by loading timelines into the source monitor and cutting them into my main timeline but leaving them as nested sequences, because I have too much merged audio (up to 8 tracks) on all the footage and don't want to deal with manually re-patching so many audio tracks.... not to mention just wanting to rubber-band mix audio on one clip instead of 8...

Is this a bad idea? Will this affect overall PPro performance? (i know it will painful at the end to re-cut all the individual audio tracks back in when prepping for mix.)

Thanks!



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James StrawnRe: Editing with nested sequences... good or bad idea?
by on May 29, 2015 at 4:14:52 pm

No, in fact it sounds like pretty good idea. This is what nested sequences were designed to do and it should not affect performance at all. It's still just playing the original sequence, you're just seeing it contained in a different place. Why do you need to re-cut all the original audio back in at the end? Are there no natural braking points where you can separate all of one sequence from the next?

Software Quality Assurance - Digital Video at Adobe Systems


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Jonathan WingRe: Editing with nested sequences... good or bad idea?
by on May 29, 2015 at 4:26:58 pm

It shouldn't present any problems. I work with nests all the time especially for complicated sequences such as that, or sometimes long-form projects where you want to work on separate scenes in their own sequence and them piece them together later on, using nests.

The one caveat is for going online, if you are working with transcodes. Nests are a little annoying for the process of re-linking to raw footage for color/finishing. It would be nice if Adobe would add a feature where we could right-click on a nest and "decompose" the nest right on the timeline, as needed, which could also be helpful for a whole slew of other reasons.

But generally speaking, to answer your question: performance wise, working with nests is totally fine.


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Joshua PearsonRe: Editing with nested sequences... good or bad idea?
by on May 29, 2015 at 4:32:15 pm

Thanks for the replies fellas... i will proceed.

James, I thought we'd have to re-cut all the audio back in because there doesn't seem to be a way to "uncollapse" (FCP7 speak) or "break apart" (FCPX) or "decompose" (Avid?) a nested audio clip containing 8 tracks of audio. What happens if we try to export an OMF or AAF of nested audio tracks? We haven't tested that yet.



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James StrawnRe: Editing with nested sequences... good or bad idea?
by on May 29, 2015 at 4:40:11 pm

I want to tell you it will work fine, but there were some issues around that in the past and I can't say for certain what the status is in 2014.2. I can't get in there and try it myself right now either, so please let me (us) know what your result is fi you get a chance to try it out.


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Joshua PearsonRe: Editing with nested sequences... good or bad idea?
by on May 29, 2015 at 4:52:41 pm

One of our guys says it mixes all the tracks down to a single track... but we'll have to try it again.



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Joshua PearsonRe: Editing with nested sequences... good or bad idea?
by on May 29, 2015 at 5:00:40 pm

Also, while i;m on the subject of nested sequences, when first cut into a timeline, a nested audio clip will not display a waveform... we found that we have to "render audio", which, if its a long nest, can take a while... is that the only way to get a nested waveform to display?



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Ryan FriasRe: Editing with nested sequences... good or bad idea?
by on May 29, 2015 at 5:09:16 pm

In regards to carrying 8 audio/iso tracks in your timeline... if you will be working with a post sound crew, they can "expand" to all the other ISO mics/tracks/channels based off one audio that you give us in the AAF/EDL provided that the metadata is maintained throughout the process. I've been involved with many workflows where the picture editor just carries the single "mix" channel (which could be channel 1 of 8) from the production mixer. This creates less clutter in the timeline and allows you to get your dialogue tracks under 4 audio tracks, which plays nicely with EDLs for the post sound department.

In Pro Tools, they call this the Field Recorder Workflow where we can take any single channel from an AAF and spill out the other recorded channels on our end.


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Shane RossRe: Editing with nested sequences... good or bad idea?
by on May 29, 2015 at 5:20:42 pm

Editing with nested like this is ONLY advisable if you are doing everything in Premiere Pro...and doing it yourself. If you need to send this out to audio for a mix, sending them an AAF won't send the individual 8 audio tracks, only the stereo mixdown nest. NOT a good thing for them to work with. The export won't break the next apart and give them the 8 individual tracks.

You can't export properly for color correction outside of the editing application, you'll have to do it all in PPro.

I never advise editing with nests, as it makes sending anything out for separate work impossible...if not extremely challenging. If you are doing everything inside PPro yourself...fine. But anything needs to go out...don't do it.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Alex UdellRe: Editing with nested sequences... good or bad idea?
by on May 29, 2015 at 6:18:41 pm
Last Edited By Alex Udell on May 29, 2015 at 6:19:53 pm

[Jonathan Wing] "It would be nice if Adobe would add a feature where we could right-click on a nest and "decompose" the nest right on the timeline, as needed,"

isn't this what "flatten" does? I'm using it for multicam right now.

Alex Udell
Editing, Motion Graphics, and Visual FX


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Joshua PearsonRe: Editing with nested sequences... good or bad idea?
by on May 29, 2015 at 7:15:45 pm

"Flatten" only works on Multicam clips, not nested timelines. You can right click on the nested timeline and turn it into a multi cam clip "enable" and THEN flatten it but you have to choose one angle to flatten to, including audio, so that won't work for me.

I guess what I am envisioning is a way to "break apart" a nested sequence into its video clips and ALL its audio clips which would magically proliferate downward and push other conflicting audio clips out of the way (downward?) to avoid collisions. All just for the ease and speed of dealing with as few audio clips in the timeline as possible while editing, if so desired.



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Joshua PearsonRe: Editing with nested sequences... good or bad idea?
by on May 29, 2015 at 7:23:09 pm

... Or a new way to export an OMF or AAF or XML that "looks inside" nested material and allows Resolve/Smoke/Protools etc. to recreate the cut with original audio and video clips WITH their automation, not a single mixed down audio track.



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Andrew KimeryRe: Editing with nested sequences... good or bad idea?
by on May 29, 2015 at 9:29:03 pm

Out of curiosity Joshua, why did you go with merged clips instead of using the multicam route to sync and 'join' your outboard audio with your video? I've never used merged clips in PPro, but I keep reading lots of bad things/limitations about going that route.

Also, you mention 8 channels of audio. Are all the channels unique or are some of the channels empty or redundant?


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Joshua PearsonRe: Editing with nested sequences... good or bad idea?
by on May 29, 2015 at 9:53:38 pm
Last Edited By Joshua Pearson on May 29, 2015 at 10:12:41 pm

I guess we could have made a mulitcam clip with only one camera angle ( and many audio tacks).
I realized though that some of this material IS gong to be mulicam (two camera) with nine unique channels of audio (i listened to them... lots of mics going)... so this defeats my whole idea of "collecting" all those unsightly audio channels into one nested clip, as multi cam clips ONLY edit ALL the audio channels into the timeline. Wah wah.



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Andrew KimeryRe: Editing with nested sequences... good or bad idea?
by on May 29, 2015 at 10:17:50 pm

If I'm understanding you correctly you want to be able to hear all 8 (or however many) audio tracks in the timeline, you just are trying to find a way that you don't have all 8 audio tracks in the timeline taking up space. Correct?

I'm pretty sure when you make a multicam you have the option make it a mono or stereo channel output so even though the multicam will have 8 tracks, when you edit it into a timeline the 8 tracks will be mixed down into a single track. I feel like I've accidentally done that before.


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Joshua PearsonRe: Editing with nested sequences... good or bad idea?
by on May 29, 2015 at 10:34:59 pm

Yes, that's exactly what I want... I will test.



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Jerome RaimRe: Editing with nested sequences... good or bad idea?
by on May 29, 2015 at 11:01:45 pm

I'm trying to see if I can downmix to stereo but can't figure out how:

I select 2 video elements (dual mono each) and one audio clip (3 mono)
I first tested as stereo, then tested it as auto:



These are the two multiclips that were created:


I cut them into a timeline with standard audio tracks:


In theory, the way to have 7 channels downmixed to stereo would be right click on the multiclip → Modify Audio Channels and link all channels to output 1 & 2. But I don't see any way on how to do that.

Additionally, I'm confused between the (possible) discrepancy between the number of channels in Modify Audio Channels and the number of channels in the multiclip's sequence settings.

Jerome Raim
Post-Production
JeromeRaim.com


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Joshua PearsonRe: Editing with nested sequences... good or bad idea?
by on May 29, 2015 at 11:17:30 pm

Can't figure it out.. Do you remember how you did it?



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Andrew KimeryRe: Editing with nested sequences... good or bad idea?
by on May 29, 2015 at 11:42:10 pm

Off the top of my head, no. I've only done it by accident. If I have time later I'll mess around and see if I can intentionally recreate what I did.


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Jerome RaimRe: Editing with nested sequences... good or bad idea?
by on Jun 2, 2015 at 9:32:18 pm

OK, I figured out how to downmix multiple audio tracks to two tracks. For anyone who needs to do it, here are the steps:
1. Create your multiclip
2. Open it in timeline
3. Open the audio track mixer (not the audio clip mixer)
4. Depending on your audio setup, it will either look like this

or like this

5. Map all audio tracks to 1+2.
For stereo pairs:

For mono:


Your multiclip will still have x number of audio channels, but all of them will be empty except for 1 & 2.

Jerome Raim
Post-Production
JeromeRaim.com


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Alex UdellRe: Editing with nested sequences... good or bad idea?
by on May 29, 2015 at 9:15:10 pm

No...I know what you mean exactly.

I hadn't thought it thru when I made the suggestion...

Alex Udell
Editing, Motion Graphics, and Visual FX


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