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Premiere PRo rendering/playback issues.

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Andrew JohnstonePremiere PRo rendering/playback issues.
by on May 7, 2015 at 6:01:01 pm

Quick system snap shot.

iMac with 3.1ghz Itel i7 chip. 16 gb Ram, NVidia graphics card.

PPP CS6

1 x new thuderbolt/USB3 Lacie RAID (mirror mode) for rushes archive

1 x new Thunderbolt Gtech scracth disk.

Should be fine to cut a 30 minute film in PP right? I mean I have cut all my previous work on this system for the past 2 years including all my broadcast projects (mainly on FCP 7 for BBC with projects ported over to their system for finishing...)..but you get the picture, this set up should work...

The variable here is my new Thuderbolt drives.

However, I am having terrible trouble with slow rendering at the moment, I am getting big boxy, jaggy artefacts all over the image during playback after rendering files. See:

https://app.box.com/s/0dzctuaxpk9hw4n4rudvvviuu0ljjtgx

I have a feeling that this might be something to do with my disk speed and project length. I confess I have never had these problems before. Surely 2 x brand new Thunderbolt drives should not cause this issue...?

I have a new Thunderbolt scratch disk (for render files etc) which was daisy chained through my archive Raid disk. I thought this might be the problem. I unhooked the Thunderbolt cable from my project raid (in mirror mode) where all my rushes are stored and connected this with a USB3 cable. I then hooked my scratch disc directly to the back of the Mac via THunderbolt. However this has not fixed the problem.

Playback from my USB3 connected archive disk is now very slow and I am still seeing artefacts/jaggies on some clips.

I have trashed all my render files and I have not re-rendered anything yet, but I am still have issues with the previews.

This edit is 30 minutes long. But this should not be an issue surely? I am working from P2 files (AVCINtra 50) direct into PP. I have tried to run both native timeline and a Pro Res timeline (where i am now) and neither works. Interestingly when I output/export a file it is as clean as a whistle.

Need some help PDQ! I have to deliver this project next week and at this stage I am starring at a recut in FCP7!

Glass of wine and moaning at wife over dinner now. Answers asap please!

Thanks

Andy

Andy Johnstone
Wild Dog Limited
film & multimedia production
http://www.wilddogworld.com


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Andrew KimeryRe: Premiere PRo rendering/playback issues.
by on May 7, 2015 at 6:29:54 pm

Have you tried switching the GPU acceleration from CUDA to OpenCL or Software? There is a problem with the GPU drivers that are plaguing some users.


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Andrew JohnstoneRe: Premiere PRo rendering/playback issues.
by on May 7, 2015 at 7:18:03 pm

No. Perhaps I should do so?

Any idea where I find drivers for that? I am looking now, but cannot seem to find...!

Andy Johnstone
Wild Dog Limited
film & multimedia production
http://www.wilddogworld.com


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Andrew JohnstoneRe: Premiere PRo rendering/playback issues.
by on May 7, 2015 at 7:25:09 pm

PS. Am also running some updates and doing other house keeping.

Andy Johnstone
Wild Dog Limited
film & multimedia production
http://www.wilddogworld.com


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Andrew KimeryRe: Premiere PRo rendering/playback issues.
by on May 7, 2015 at 7:29:30 pm

If you open PPro and go Fire->Project Settings->General you'll have a drop down menu for Video Rendering and Playback (this is CC, so CS6 might be different).

There is a big thread about

https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/3/961633#965830

Basically, if you have installed CUDA, you should try un-installing it (in the above thread is there a post with specific instructions). If you don't have CUDA installed then trying running in Software or OpenCL mode. From what I've heard, Nvidia is aware of the problem and they are working (I hope) on a fix. The problem also seems to have something to do with Apple's own GPU drives because I've read reports of people running Windows on their Mac and not experiencing the same problems.

This may or may not be your problem but it's at least a place to start.


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Andrew JohnstoneRe: Premiere PRo rendering/playback issues.
by on May 7, 2015 at 8:02:54 pm

I have looked at that thread and i am not sure it makes a lot of sense to me.

I have not updated my OS software (on purpose!) on my edit machine. I am still running Mountain Lion. The system has run fine until this project. Unless the CUDA driver can become corrupted, how can this suddenly start happening.

I simply do not have the time for my machine/software for my machine not to work properly!

Andy Johnstone
Wild Dog Limited
film & multimedia production
http://www.wilddogworld.com


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David Roth WeissRe: Premiere PRo rendering/playback issues.
by on May 7, 2015 at 8:27:49 pm

If you haven't already, download the AJA System Test and run the Drive Speed Test on all drives, then report your results back here please. Using the free Speed Test is the only scientific way to really know what's happening under the hood of your hard drive subsystems, otherwise you're just guessing.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Andrew JohnstoneRe: Premiere PRo rendering/playback issues.
by on May 7, 2015 at 9:00:08 pm

Thanks

My Scratch disk (with a Gtech 3TB Thunderbolt connection)

write: 88.3 mb/s
Read: 68.8 mb/s

My Rushes archive drive (Lacie 12tb mirrored RAID with USB3)

Write: 34.1 MB/s
Read: 23.8 mb/3

Andy

Andy Johnstone
Wild Dog Limited
film & multimedia production
http://www.wilddogworld.com


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Andrew JohnstoneRe: Premiere PRo rendering/playback issues.
by on May 7, 2015 at 9:04:53 pm

These figures show that the Thuderbolt is running slower than the USB3 drive.

However, prior to this current set up my previous Scratch disk was a Firewire drive and I had no issues with that ever...

And I am running a ProRes 1920x1080 timeline.

Andy Johnstone
Wild Dog Limited
film & multimedia production
http://www.wilddogworld.com


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Andrew JohnstoneRe: Premiere PRo rendering/playback issues.
by on May 7, 2015 at 9:18:18 pm

...and while I try and figure this out, I am just in the process of rebuilding the edit from and XML file in FCP7

There will be more hoops to jump through to do this, but, despite its 32bit-ness and inability to handle certain codecs like P2 (AVC Intra etc) FCP7 still does the biz...if a little bit more slowly.

I will be interested to see if I have the graphics issues here...

If not, then this is an PP issue.

Andy Johnstone
Wild Dog Limited
film & multimedia production
http://www.wilddogworld.com


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David Roth WeissRe: Premiere PRo rendering/playback issues.
by on May 7, 2015 at 9:17:18 pm

Well, it's clear that your USB 3 drive is way too slow for media playback.

You called the USB 3 drive your render drive initially, now you're calling it an archive drive. Whatever you're doing with it, it should not be used for any media files that you need to playback seamlessly in Premiere.

FYI, even the throughput of your faster T-bolt scratch drive is not all that great, you really should consider a four or six drive T-bolt RAID to get truly seamless playback.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Andrew KimeryRe: Premiere PRo rendering/playback issues.
by on May 7, 2015 at 9:24:26 pm

[Andrew Johnstone] "I have not updated my OS software (on purpose!) on my edit machine. I am still running Mountain Lion. The system has run fine until this project. Unless the CUDA driver can become corrupted, how can this suddenly start happening"

Sorry for possibly misunderstanding you. I thought this was your first time using CS6 after moving from FCP 7. If you have used CS6 a lot before and this issue just started then it's probably not the GPU issue.

[Andrew Johnstone] "Thanks

My Scratch disk (with a Gtech 3TB Thunderbolt connection)

write: 88.3 mb/s
Read: 68.8 mb/s

My Rushes archive drive (Lacie 12tb mirrored RAID with USB3)

Write: 34.1 MB/s
Read: 23.8 mb/3
"


Those are really slow speeds. I just tested my Gtech travel drive (7200pm, 1TB, Thunderbolt) and got 126MB/s write and 128MB/s read. Are the drives full?


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Andrew JohnstoneRe: Premiere PRo rendering/playback issues.
by on May 8, 2015 at 5:46:43 am

Sorry I was having a late night, 'glass of wine, thick moment.

The TB drive speeds are of course faster than the USB3 drive speeds. For some reason I was looking for a number that said 'speed' not 'amount of data' - ie. under 10 secs for the 100m is quicker than than over 10 secs.

I will look at the USB3 write speed, but the problem may just be that the drive is not cabled directly into the mac but via a USB hub (too many peripherals!)

Will check that out when I fire up a little later. Either way it looks like I need to find a faster solution. But again, I have worked seamlessly for years using Firewire cutting HD timelines, so TB & USB3 really should be able to cut it!

Andy Johnstone
Wild Dog Limited
film & multimedia production
http://www.wilddogworld.com


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Andrew JohnstoneRe: Premiere PRo rendering/playback issues.
by on May 7, 2015 at 9:31:30 pm

David,

Sorry if I was not being clear.

I have just up-graded to the 2 new drives recently. Prior to this I was running PP CS6 cutting docs up to 15 mins long using a LACIE Mirrored RAID drive hooked up via USB3 and a older Gtech scratch disk connected by FIREWIRE.

Both these drives were fine and I never had an issue running PP. I will do some more plugin and uplugging of cables, but certainly a Thunderbolt/USB3 connection set up should work better than a UBS3/Firewire combo!

FYI, I have just recreated the first part of my edit in FCP7 from an XML file and it runs fine. Connected to the same thuderbolt Gtech scratch disk.

Bed time here now, but appreciate your help! Will check the threa din the morning.

Thanks

Andy

Andy Johnstone
Wild Dog Limited
film & multimedia production
http://www.wilddogworld.com


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Andrew JohnstoneRe: Premiere PRo rendering/playback issues.
by on May 8, 2015 at 8:55:41 am

OK I have re done the plumbing in the back of my system and both my archive RAID and my scratch disk are wired directly into the Mac with my external screen on a Thunderbolt daisy chain loop from the back of the Raid disk.

My external RAID had been on a USB3 connection via a hub, which is most likely why it was so slow.

Anyway, net result is that I am still getting video playback issues with PP (jumping images, bad image blocks etc), so my plumbing solution has not worked.

The net result is that I have decided to rebuild my Edit in FCP7 from the XML file. So far I have no issues with playback, but I am only half way through the ingest...well not even. I hope this retrograde step works as I have to deliver this film next week.

Will need to do a thorough investigation into what the issue with PP is, but my hope that I had found a fast stable, reliable alternative to FCP7 seems to be fading.

Pretty naffed off. I have now spent 3 days trying to fix this issue.

Andy Johnstone
Wild Dog Limited
film & multimedia production
http://www.wilddogworld.com


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Andrew JohnstoneRe: Premiere PRo rendering/playback issues.
by on May 8, 2015 at 12:45:13 pm

OK slow going, but I am now grading my project without a hitch in FCP7. No sign of a video glitch etc.

I confess to feeling miffed that FCP7 ever went away. I have never tried FCPX as no professional editors that I know use it, but if PP is going to play dirty on large projects (again I have never had these issues before with PP), then I need to find a new best friend.

Andy Johnstone
Wild Dog Limited
film & multimedia production
http://www.wilddogworld.com


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