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Suggested workflow for mixed Alexa 2k and Red 5K Offline to Online workflow?

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Scott ClementsSuggested workflow for mixed Alexa 2k and Red 5K Offline to Online workflow?
by on May 1, 2015 at 2:38:30 pm

Hi,

I am editing a film that was shot almost equal parts Arri Alexa 2K and Alexa 5K (4800x2700). Does anyone have a suggested offline/online workflow for a project like this - perhaps using ProRes LT? I can cut the footage natively, but it is sluggish, especially the Red footage (I also have to view at 1/8 resolution which makes it hard to judge focus in motion) The Red footage has a look baked into the metadata, but the Alexa needs a LUT (I can put one on in Lumetri in Premiere, but not sure where to put for transcoding. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.

Film Editor, London UK
http://www.scottclementseditor.com


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David Roth WeissRe: Suggested workflow for mixed Alexa 2k and Red 5K Offline to Online workflow?
by on May 1, 2015 at 3:37:38 pm

Without divulging your hardware config, including your media drive(s), it's pretty tough to help you. Sure, you can transcode to a lighter codec for later online, but that too has a cost. You'd do better by spending your dough on proper hardware that would enable the Holy Grail of seamless playback and editing of multiple codecs that Adobe makes possible.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Scott ClementsRe: Suggested workflow for mixed Alexa 2k and Red 5K Offline to Online workflow?
by on May 1, 2015 at 3:42:16 pm

Hi, David. I'm on a 2.8 GHz macbook pro with 16 gigs of ram. It's the fastest macbook I could buy from Apple at time of purchase. Adding to my situation, I have already synced all my footage in Arri 2K and Red 5K. I did a transcode and relink test and the 1920x1080 ProRes LT proxies linked up, but came back small in the source monitor. They played very smoothly, but I couldn't figure out how to rescale them on the source side. Basically, I want to cut through footage like a hot knife through butter. I could edit natively on my system, but I really want to be able to motor through the footage.

Film Editor, London UK
http://www.scottclementseditor.com


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David Roth WeissRe: Suggested workflow for mixed Alexa 2k and Red 5K Offline to Online workflow?
by on May 1, 2015 at 4:13:16 pm

Scott,

This is science, and thus you need to pay attention to the facts, not emotion. 5K video does not care what MacBook Pro was available on the day you purchased... You simply do not have the horsepower on your laptop mecessary to edit RED 5k. So, unless you invest in more powerful hardware, you will have to transcode to a lighter mezzanine codec for later conform.

And, as you've already noticed, transcoding to a smaller format, such as HD, is NOT the answer either, as you will end up with an entire hodge-podge of scaling issues. So, you will need to transcode to a codec that is lighter, such as Pro Res LT, but in a frame size identical to that of your final delivery.

Also, I asked for your media drive config, but you failed to mention that.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Scott ClementsRe: Suggested workflow for mixed Alexa 2k and Red 5K Offline to Online workflow?
by on May 1, 2015 at 4:21:26 pm

David, thanks for your attempt to help, but I don't understand the negativity. I told you what system I was running. I don't know why you thought it was an issue of emotion vs. science. I wasn't asking if I could cut natively. I was asking for an offline/online workflow, which I can definitely handle. Apologies for not clueing in about drive configuration (I'm working off a portable 2TB USB 3). Obviously buying a new system is not the answer. I would like to know what to do with the footage I have on the system I've got.

Film Editor, London UK
http://www.scottclementseditor.com


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Chris BorjisRe: Suggested workflow for mixed Alexa 2k and Red 5K Offline to Online workflow?
by on May 1, 2015 at 8:59:38 pm

could you not "motor through" natively with the files as is and set
the program and source monitor resolution to 1/4?



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Scott ClementsRe: Suggested workflow for mixed Alexa 2k and Red 5K Offline to Online workflow?
by on May 1, 2015 at 10:29:40 pm

Chris....that works pretty well for single clips, but multicam won't play...even at 1/8.

Film Editor, London UK
http://www.scottclementseditor.com


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David Roth WeissRe: Suggested workflow for mixed Alexa 2k and Red 5K Offline to Online workflow?
by on May 1, 2015 at 11:09:25 pm

[Scott Clements] "Chris....that works pretty well for single clips, but multicam won't play...even at 1/8."

Scott,

As I tried to tell you before, your hardware is simply not up to the task. You have a number of issues on that front, and I'll point them out, not to make you feel bad, but so you'll understand how far away you are from the reality of seamless playback of 4K/5K RED RAW files.

1) Your single processor laptop doesn't really have the necessary processing power for seamless playback of even a single stream of RED RAW 5K, much less 3 concurrent streams. Even the latest top of the line Mac Pros have a difficult time with 5K RED RAW, though they can get away with it by adding powerful dual GPUs and a very fast RAID.

2} Your single USB 3 drive (your media drive) does not provide the necessary throughput for three concurrent steams of 5K RED RAW - you need either a 4, 5, or preferably an 8-drive RAID.

3) Your laptop's Nvidia GPU does not have the Cuda cores necessary to make up for the two problems above.

Hence, I told you earlier that transcoding to a lighter-weight mezzanine codec, such as Pro Res LT, was the ONLY way forward. And, I mentioned that you need to transcode to a LT using the frame dimensions of your final deliverable (not HD if you are delivering 2K).

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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David Roth WeissRe: Suggested workflow for mixed Alexa 2k and Red 5K Offline to Online workflow?
by on May 1, 2015 at 11:35:42 pm

[Scott Clements] "I don't understand the negativity. I told you what system I was running. I don't know why you thought it was an issue of emotion vs. science. I wasn't asking if I could cut natively. I was asking for an offline/online workflow, which I can definitely handle. Apologies for not clueing in about drive configuration (I'm working off a portable 2TB USB 3). Obviously buying a new system is not the answer. I would like to know what to do with the footage I have on the system I've got.
"


Scott,

Please don't confuse my frustration with negativity. I specifically asked you questions about your hardware config for a reason, some of which you didn't answer. And, you said a new system is out of the question, though it's pretty clear you don't really understand just how far your system is from what is needed for a realistic 5K RED RAW workflow.

On top of that, I was quite specific about what I told you in regard to transcoding to a lighter codec, but you seem to have missed that entirely. I earlier wrote: "And, as you've already noticed, transcoding to a smaller format, such as HD, is NOT the answer either, as you will end up with an entire hodge-podge of scaling issues. So, you will need to transcode to a codec that is lighter, such as Pro Res LT, but in a frame size identical to that of your final delivery." If that's confusing to you please ask, but please don't say I didn't give you advice about using the system you've already got.

For the record, I am the 6th leading poster of all times here on the Cow, and I help people all the time with these issues. However, I will admit that I do get frustrated from time to time when people want to do champagne work on a beer budget.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Tero AhlforsRe: Suggested workflow for mixed Alexa 2k and Red 5K Offline to Online workflow?
by on May 2, 2015 at 7:28:13 am

You might also get better playback if you edit straight online in a smaller resolution timeline like full HD. I cut 4K R3D project on a two year old iMac like that and I got good playback on 1/2 quality.


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