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Loudness Radar vs. Audio Meters

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Rob DavisLoudness Radar vs. Audio Meters
by on Apr 30, 2015 at 5:13:17 pm

Forgive my audio ignorance.

I'm seeing different readings in Loudness Radar than I am in the normal audio meters in Premiere and don't know which one to trust. -12 readings on the standard audio meters comes in closer to -24 in loudness radar (set to ATSC A/85 LKFS). I need my peaks no louder than -20 to pass QC on my network.

Which one do I use?


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Tero AhlforsRe: Loudness Radar vs. Audio Meters
by on Apr 30, 2015 at 5:30:48 pm

[Rob Davis] "I need my peaks no louder than -20 to pass QC on my network."

If you are mixing for peaks you don't need the loudness meter at all.


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Rob DavisRe: Loudness Radar vs. Audio Meters
by on Apr 30, 2015 at 5:40:25 pm

So, loudness radar is measuring perceived loudness, which is differnt than normal peaks? I'd like to use it to ensure my music, dialogue, sfx, etc. are in good proportion and everything is in the correct range.


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Paul NeumannRe: Loudness Radar vs. Audio Meters
by on Apr 30, 2015 at 5:40:54 pm

How complicated is the mix? We try for -21 here.VO, SOT, music, nats. If your happy with the mix just start pushing each channel up +1 till you get there. I trust the radar more than vu.


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Rob DavisRe: Loudness Radar vs. Audio Meters
by on Apr 30, 2015 at 6:03:12 pm
Last Edited By Rob Davis on Apr 30, 2015 at 6:50:40 pm

[Paul Neumann] "How complicated is the mix? "

Not very. Its a fishing show. 6 Channels of audio on the timeline, VO, host dialogue, music, and two channels of nat sound.

If I trust the loudness meter and my ears/monitors to do the mix, my peaks will exceed -20 on the VU meters. Isn't that a problem?


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Tero AhlforsRe: Loudness Radar vs. Audio Meters
by on Apr 30, 2015 at 7:06:11 pm

[Rob Davis] "If I trust the loudness meter and my ears/monitors to do the mix, my peaks will exceed -20 on the VU meters. Isn't that a problem?"

The loudness meter is for overall loudness. The loudness number doesn't have anything to do with your maximum peaks.

https://tech.ebu.ch/docs/tech/tech3343.pdf


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Rob DavisRe: Loudness Radar vs. Audio Meters
by on Apr 30, 2015 at 7:17:50 pm

Thanks for the clarification! That's exactly what I wanted to confirm.

So, loudness radar is a tool for evaluating loudness but peaks should be measured with the VU meters. I was hoping there was a way to use the loudness radar to verify that there wasn't a lone spike over -20db that would cause me to fail QC but I'm sure there is another tool for that......


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Lee WarnerRe: Loudness Radar vs. Audio Meters
by on May 1, 2015 at 8:33:32 pm

In Canada all program & commercial audio has to be at -24LKFS or the originating station can be fined. I would imagine that this will soon be the case in U.S. I use an external unit to sample audio over set period of time and it will calculate how many dbs I need to adjust to bring the audio into compliance.

Lee
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Simon BillingtonRe: Loudness Radar vs. Audio Meters
by on May 11, 2015 at 4:36:39 am
Last Edited By Simon Billington on May 12, 2015 at 12:19:44 pm

In reality you would want to pay attention to both. The broadcast standards are different in many countries, but still seem to be very close to each other.

I believe it's -23LUFS loudness, and -2 dBFS peak in Australia, I think, but it varies between television stations.

Generally speaking, if you aren't concerned with meeting broadcast standards all you really need to be concerned is that your peaks don't exceed -1 or -2 peak and that your overall energy levels or loudness are somewhere between -18 and -24 LUFS.

If you find you can't get enough information out of your metering, and that does happen, then you may need a more specialised tool such as the WLM.



If you find that you can't get that kind of loudness while keeping your peaks within limits than you may need a little bit of limiting and/or compression.

Premiere does have some basic tools there but the quality can be a it dubious at times in mastering situations like this. You may want a more transparent soulution like the Elysia Alpha Compressor or Waves MV2 or the rather unconventional Vocal Rider which may prove to be very useful on dialogue tracks.


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