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Growing files in PremierePro

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Kannan RaghavanGrowing files in PremierePro
by on Apr 4, 2015 at 1:17:18 am
Last Edited By Kannan Raghavan on Apr 4, 2015 at 1:19:59 am

Hi guys. A long time FCP 7 user switched to PrPro CC and FCP X. For the kind of work I do most, I import growing files (QT ProRes 422) into PrPro and edit. In FCP 7, you don't have to set any preferences for 'refreshing' the growing file. It happens automatically and there is no 'pause' when editing for the app to refresh. But, in PrPro, I set the preference for refreshing the growing files to every 5 seconds. This kinda pauses the app every 5 seconds to refresh the file. Is there anyway to overcome this? As I edit sports highlights on the fly, keeping up with the live feed is important.

Kannan Raghavan
The Big Toad Films Pte. Ltd.


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Ht DavisRe: Growing files in PremierePro
by on Apr 4, 2015 at 2:49:16 am

IF you are talking live capture (on the fly right?)...
the file should be linked by its location (where it is being stored), so you are just calling that up every time... Sounds like a connection interface issue. Your ram should be at least 24gb-32gb, and the drive should be a NAS linked by 10gbps fiber for this kind of work, not to mention at least a quad core (better off with an 8core) processor and a CUDA capable graphics card with 2gb or greater (4gb has been seen once or twice) memory on the card. Your system will make use of it all.
Try setting it to 10sec.
Try an LT or even a Proxy prores. They have a lower data rate and that may be part of the issue.

Bottom line, you need your system to match the speed of the live connections. With smaller video files, this was easy. But with larger video in HD, 2k, 4k, you really need to be able to move your ram a lot faster, so make sure you've got the fastest for your bus.

Also, best to work your main drive as a SAS\SATA raid set, and run the program from there, with cache placed on that drive. It's throughput alone will boost your memory allocation speeds. Because that Cache has to be rebuilt every few seconds, it will be accessed a lot, and you will burn through drives so a RAID5 setup or at least having a differential backup to an external is necessary to recover the system.

Good night


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Kannan RaghavanRe: Growing files in PremierePro
by on Apr 4, 2015 at 3:07:14 am

Thanks for the reply Davis.
I was using FCP 7 on a Retina MBP with 16GB RAM and my media on a Thuderbolt GRAID (RAID 0). Never had any issues, was super fast. I also cpture the files in the background, into the GRAID. I just import the file into FCP7 and edit it. I could scroll to just 1 sec behind the live feed. With PrPro, it kinda updates the growing file but the system pauses the edit operations when the file is being refreshed. This is only for an instant, but still frustrating when trying to edit. This is my problem.

Kannan Raghavan
The Big Toad Films Pte. Ltd.


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Trevor AsquerthianRe: Growing files in PremierePro
by on Apr 4, 2015 at 8:12:53 am

What are you using to capture the growing files? (EVS, Softron or PictureReady or another?)

I think the refresh is related to redrawing waveforms and storing them as PEK files, I'm not sure there's much you can do about that.

In testing, what slowed down editing for me on PPro was how awful picture update was when shuttling (jerky, skips, unusable). Workaround for that was to set the 'shift & jog multiple frame' value to 50 frames and then hold down shift and jog in the direction I needed to shuttle.

I didn't notice the refresh as an issue (I was using Softron in classic mode) but this was only a proof of concept test. I did find that it was very impressive that I could ingest/edit & output all on my laptop.



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Kannan RaghavanRe: Growing files in PremierePro
by on Apr 4, 2015 at 1:02:27 pm

Hi Trevor,
I use Softron. That's exactly what's slowing me down too, the shuttling in the source monitor. Will try changing the shift+jog multiple frame value.
Yes, it is pretty impressive on a laptop. I was using Picture Ready, but after I tried Movie Recorder, sold my PR license. MR is cheaper too:)

Kannan Raghavan
The Big Toad Films Pte. Ltd.


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Ht DavisRe: Growing files in PremierePro
by on Apr 4, 2015 at 8:38:42 am

In FCP7, when live capturing, you were able to edit the output stream because it was already in the same project. Essentially, it knew how to handle that, knew the file was still open and was making edits in the cache areas as separate ops without interfering with one another.

Premiere uses the same cache areas unfortunately. Both ops access the same media in the cache which is updated as the file grows. From what I've seen, this causes short hiccups. IF you refresh the file at longer intervals, you might have time to edit. Other than that... ...You might try the new FCPX for this function. Or just use markers and use a hotkey to place them.

If the playback of the highlights is time sensitive, you might try a proxy or h264 format. Both will play back fast. If you use markers to capture the highlight points (begin and end), you should see a difference.

I'm not certain if this would work... ...What if placed your markers outside of the sequence? In the clip itself? You could use the source monitor. I'm wondering if the sequence update is your hiccup. Try using only the source monitor with the actual clip, and place markers using a hotkey. Then place cuts at those markers quickly by using the time codes of the markers from the source panel. If the source autoupdates without having to conform to a sequence you might lose that hiccup. Just a thought.


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Kannan RaghavanRe: Growing files in PremierePro
by on Apr 4, 2015 at 1:07:56 pm

Hi Davis,
Will give this a shot. I'd love to use FCPX for this, but I need tracks, for audio editing as I need to patch up unwanted commentary with M & E.
Sequence update is not a problem for me. I use the source monitor to mark in and out, drop it in the timeline, patch up audio if necessary and mark the next highlight in the source monitor again.

Kannan Raghavan
The Big Toad Films Pte. Ltd.


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Trevor AsquerthianRe: Growing files in PremierePro
by on Apr 4, 2015 at 11:18:45 pm

I'm pretty sure you can acheive that with fcpx - you'll have to 'add edit' then use inspector to change audio source.

Or you could use Avid. AMA actually seems to work pretty well for this.



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Ht DavisRe: Growing files in PremierePro
by on Apr 11, 2015 at 10:14:35 pm

Might solve problem...

Go to preferences of premiere, find setting that says: "Automatically Generate Peak files". Turn it off. This will stop generating PEK files, and will draw the WAV as necessary, but you may still get a hiccup due to the growing file... However, it may only be when there is a significant dump to the file, usually in chunks of 512mb or more.


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Trevor AsquerthianRe: Growing files in PremierePro
by on Apr 12, 2015 at 12:02:21 am

[Ht Davis] "Go to preferences of premiere, find setting that says: "Automatically Generate Peak files". Turn it off. This will stop generating PEK files"

I tried that myself, but found that it was still drawing them. I even went into the super secret console menu and turned them off there - but they kept on drawing.

Those Pesky PEK files eat up storage pretty quickly on a growing file...



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Kevin MonahanRe: Growing files in PremierePro
by on Apr 5, 2015 at 8:38:23 pm

Hi,
Check out this blog post. This customer is doing similar things to you: http://mfcdesigns.com/adobe-premiere-pro-growing-files-for-live-editing/

Sorry that I don't have any advice on the hiccup problem. PM me here and I can ask our engineers on Monday: https://forums.adobe.com/people/Kevin-Monahan

Thanks,
Kevin

Kevin Monahan
Support Product Manager—DVA
Adobe After Effects
Adobe Premiere Pro
Adobe
Follow Me on Twitter!


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Kannan RaghavanRe: Growing files in PremierePro
by on Apr 6, 2015 at 1:55:11 am

Thanks Trevor, Kevin. Am going to try out a few things today and will update here. My 2 month long project starts Wednesday, hope things go smoothly.

Kannan Raghavan
The Big Toad Films Pte. Ltd.


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Trevor AsquerthianRe: Growing files in PremierePro
by on Apr 6, 2015 at 9:11:32 am

I think that MovieRecorders 'classic' mode works better than segmented for growing files.

Do you need to be so close to live though? I do sometimes work in auto split mode where the files are in 10 min chunks and are not growing. Saves the PEK redraw and is easier to media manage afterwards.

Where I need to be very tight to live I've always used EVS to Avid/FCP/Pr solutions - usually in a shared storage environment.



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