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Premiere Pro, Lag and Lag everywhere, WHY ! Please aid me in optimizing my System.

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Sibel Zivy
Premiere Pro, Lag and Lag everywhere, WHY ! Please aid me in optimizing my System.
on Apr 2, 2015 at 10:48:04 am

I need professional aid !

The past month has been excruciatingly horrid, I'm an amateur when it comes to adobe products and ever since I got my PC running PremPro PhotoShop and AFX it has been a pain for me.

I want to optimize my PC to fully utilize the demands Premiere Pro requires and also for it to fully take advantage of my hardware.

My specs> OS: Win 8.1/CPU:i74930k/GPU: GTX760-2gb/RAM:4x4Gb@1600Mhz(16Gb)/SSD: 128GB/
HDD: One 2tb(7200RPM) for random bombardment. Other are Salvaged ,One(5400RPM) 160Gb for Exports, One 50Gb (5400RPM) for Project files and select precious files I need to keep safe.

I have EVERYTHING related to Premiere Pro and other adobe apps located on the SSD!


So the nature of Laggy disturbances are>....
#1-I almost always get Lag in timeline screen and Source even after everything gets conformed without interruption.
#2 sometimes I get faulty exports(No-matter the magnitude of the project it'll always be exported @ 24kb/s) even after it takes the proper and required time as it would would with a normal and healthy export, I could never root the problem with this one.
#3 After I installed more RAM exporting takes more time and premiere pro doesn't utilize my CPU as much as it did before the upgrade.
#4Sometimes I'd import files that do not 10Gb in size and I'd leave them confrom and return after 15 mins making sure everything has had time to breath and then as soon as they're placed and trimmed on he timeline I get PLAYBACK LAG, All I do at this phase is just trim and adjust audio levels, So why would there be lag, I'm sure that systems with half the power would perform better in this scenario!!
#5 Even scrubbing @ 1/4 the quality of a (10~15Gb 1080p/H.264 @ 29FPS with a Data Rate of (55425Kbps) and a Total Bitrate of (55433kbps) so around 55Mb/s file lags almost instantly and sometimes I'd get the (Not Responding message)and this also happens after the files are fully conformed.

Please I've already formatted my SSD completely and re-installed Win8.1 and Premiere Pro even before Norton, Yet I still faced all this.

What am I doing wrong, I understand that many of you here are professionals and also many know how to keep your systems as sharp as a razor, So I am calling unto you for aid and assistance, Please help me optimize my system to its optimum capacity, The least I want to do is scrub without lag!

Thank You !


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Alberto Bedin
Re: Premiere Pro, Lag and Lag everywhere, WHY ! Please aid me in optimizing my System.
on Apr 2, 2015 at 11:27:24 am

some suggestions:

- disable antivirus when working
- Premiere program files, source files, project files and export location should be on 4 different SSD.
- you should use a different SSD for caching and you must set it in premiere preferences
- 5400 HDD are useless for video editing. Also 7200 should not be used due to performance reasons.


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Sibel Zivy
Re: Premiere Pro, Lag and Lag everywhere, WHY ! Please aid me in optimizing my System.
on Apr 2, 2015 at 11:44:03 pm

Thanks I'll do my best !


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Jeff Pulera
Re: Premiere Pro, Lag and Lag everywhere, WHY ! Please aid me in optimizing my System.
on Apr 2, 2015 at 7:39:58 pm

Agreed to remove or disable anti-virus, number one killer of performance, and no to 5400rpm drives. However, there is nothing wrong with a 7200rpm SATA drive if it's a performance model such as WD Caviar Black or Seagate Barracuda. Do not use "green" drives!

You didn't say what Premiere Pro version you are running - make sure that you have GPU hardware acceleration enabled, makes a very big difference in performance.

And where did you get H.264 files that are 55mbps - Source?

Thanks

Jeff Pulera
Safe Harbor Computers


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Sibel Zivy
Re: Premiere Pro, Lag and Lag everywhere, WHY ! Please aid me in optimizing my System.
on Apr 2, 2015 at 11:56:53 pm

Alright Jeff here's the deal..

I record Gameplay @ the highest quality that's why it's a HBR of 55Mbs !
version of PP is 8.0.1..I don't know how to manually upgrade.
Yes I have GPU render selected!
Although the Caviar is Green!

So what do you suggest with these terms ?


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Ht Davis
Re: Premiere Pro, Lag and Lag everywhere, WHY ! Please aid me in optimizing my System.
on Apr 3, 2015 at 2:42:56 am

55mbps?!!!! Yikes that's high!!! Try creating a Proxy with a lower Bit rate dude!!!!!

Make a proxy only for editing purpose, then use a bulk or full format video for the output stage.

Put your clips into premiere, begin placing into sequence, then offline them, and relink to a smaller file (faster playback, lower resolution and MBPS), and then interpret the footage to your sequence settings, and edit away.

ALSO:
Keep Caching on internal disk, make sure you've got at least 40gb free space.

Keep audio and video previews on the same drive. This will allow faster in-line access when playing back rendered edits.


If you are creating a proxy, I suggest a proxy mpg or h264 with a 20-25mbit rate. You might also turn off the rendering on your graphics card. Most systems win7 and above look for the processing on the main CPU first, and when there is a GPU present, will find it, and use it as well, compounding the power of your CPU rather than trying to send an allocation to GPU, then the data, then process only what it can handle, then pass an allocation back, then back to memory and write out for use in app. No, man... ...Send an allocation request for graphics to CPU, which allocates for GPU as well, and then pass the full weight to both and process, then send both back out along the same operation pipe, to memory and then drives for use, while polling cpu and gpu again. Two processors for the price of one and faster.


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Sibel Zivy
Re: Premiere Pro, Lag and Lag everywhere, WHY ! Please aid me in optimizing my System.
on Apr 3, 2015 at 2:50:31 am
Last Edited By Sibel Zivy on Apr 3, 2015 at 4:01:25 am

Davis could you explain how I could do that ?
I'm fairly new you know.
I mean I can make smaller versions of the videos, but the cpu/gpu assessment... Could you walk me through ?


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Ht Davis
Re: Premiere Pro, Lag and Lag everywhere, WHY ! Please aid me in optimizing my System.
on Apr 3, 2015 at 4:05:26 am

Cache:
This goes back to an old technology called PAGING. Adobe stores some extra info (basically cloned from your RAM) for quickly copying back to ram and running. On MAC's this needs specific permissions to be able to run, and I believe on PC as well, with Win7 and 8. It's a logical assumption since your memory holds everything you are running, including some of your operating system. Set it to a location on your internal, main SSD or HDD by going to your premiere preferences, under media. Do not set it to save a copy next to originals... ...this doubles the amount of space you need, and can fail when on an external drive. Under that, you should see the setting for media cache database. Make sure it is on your main drive, in a location you have access to (I chose Documents folder, so I could empty it manually if necessary). Click ok.
Previews:
Now... ...In your sequence settings, you need to select where to put your preview files. I keep them with my project file on a "Disk Image". *(This is a binary file that a system will see like a Hard drive. I can create it anywhere, and format it just like a hard drive or a CD\DVD, etc. I use the Mac, so I go to Applications, utilities, disk utility. This application will allow me to select the icon for "New Image" and save a blank "Image" anywhere. I suggest you look this up and research a little, then try using a "Sparse" image. I'd like to talk more about that with you, but maybe we can do that by email.)* But you can save your previews anywhere you have the space, so long as you keep them together (they are split into stream transport if you set your preview to the standard i-frame only mpeg); they are played back best that way.

CPU\GPU:
Check your preferences for OPENCL and CUDA. Most often, this will be detected for you, but sometimes it won't. Check the specs of your system again. Do you have a separate graphics card or is it built in to the system? IF so, OpenCL will be the way to go. IF you are on Windows, and have a newer add-on card for graphics, you may have an advanced processing technology called CUDA. It's super fast, and very powerful. If on windows, turn it on in your system, and in your premiere preferences under graphics. On a mac, turn it off. Macs currently have trouble with it for the following reason:
When I spoke of graphics before, I was trying to point out that newer systems work differently to maximize the power across both your main processor (intel core 2, i5, etc) and a discreet graphics card (an added graphics processing unit with it's own processor; e.g., nvidia, Radeon, ATI) at the same time. Older systems would use one or the other, limiting the power you had to process. Older systems would pass the command to the processor, which would pass it back with a list of what to do through the driver for the graphics card, to the memory and processor of the card, where it would work, then pass it back through the processor to the memory and out to the drives. Now it just passes it out to the processor in the same language as the gfx card would get, and the processor decides if the GPU is needed, then fills it when necessary, while processing part of the video itself. Mac computers make use of a Double-buffer in their underlying graphics driver, so it conflicts with CUDA, and many cards are having a problem with it.


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Jeff Pulera
Re: Premiere Pro, Lag and Lag everywhere, WHY ! Please aid me in optimizing my System.
on Apr 3, 2015 at 1:49:06 pm

Going to have to disagree on proxy editing. That is typically used when the source footage is very heavy, such as RED camera footage, then the workflow may support a proxy situation. I've been editing NLE since the late 90s and have NEVER had any need to use proxies, seems like a whole lot of unnecessary extra time, fuss, drive space.

First, do NOT use the Green drive for video capture/editing, they suck. Get a Caviar Black instead. Turn off Indexing on the video drive.

Next, H.264 is very highly compressed, so for playback/editing, it takes a lot of processing power to decode each frame. I don't know what you use for capture, but if you can capture as an .avi instead, that may solve the problems. The files will be larger - however, being less compressed, they are much more edit-friendly. But don't use uncompressed, you do need a compressed codec.

Thanks

Jeff Pulera
Safe Harbor Computers


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Ht Davis
Re: Premiere Pro, Lag and Lag everywhere, WHY ! Please aid me in optimizing my System.
on Apr 3, 2015 at 10:47:02 pm

I work on a macbook pro (2008) with 4gb ram (maxed out) 2.16ghz intel core2duo, 256mb gfx. All 1080 video is heavy. HEAVY can be ANY video that your system has trouble with in the editing workflow. PROXY reduces the requirements of the playback so you can edit and render without so many snags. You use full on formats at the END to ensure an output quality, then you can compress and all that to your hearts content. What about that doesn't fit?


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Sibel Zivy
Re: Premiere Pro, Lag and Lag everywhere, WHY ! Please aid me in optimizing my System.
on Apr 4, 2015 at 4:44:07 am
Last Edited By Sibel Zivy on Apr 4, 2015 at 6:07:50 am

Davis you know I'd rather cut back on quality than go through that rigorous process of encoding, because some of the clips I have are very long(40mins) and I only need/use a small portion(7min MAX) portion from them.
So I'll record @ 1/4 less of the base quality and try to optimize my PCto ensure that there isn't any performance hidden or kept out due to my ignorance.

Here's my email: qwasiz-ex@hotmail.com

I really can't thank you enough for what you've thought me Davis! Thank you!


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Ht Davis
Re: Premiere Pro, Lag and Lag everywhere, WHY ! Please aid me in optimizing my System.
on Apr 6, 2015 at 5:00:05 am

The reason I'd go through all that encoding is to troubleshoot.
By encoding it properly to an intermediate set of formats, You can identify where the problems are. WIth a proxy in an intermediate, you should play back quickly, but have great quality. If you don't, we know it's something in your configuration. Then we check your rendering configs. Start by turning off the more advanced rendering architectures, then turn them back on one at a time, rendering a small work area each time ( 30s would do) and checking for lag times. With a compressed format, the renders take longer because they have to be decompressed, edited, and recompressed. WIth an intermediate format, there's a lot less "Guessing" in the algorithm, and it's shorter. My comp is a dinosaur, so any speed bump I can get is gravy. I rent studios to render and farm it when I can on the output side. But rendering previews I do on my own machine. Quality you never sacrifice... ...resolution, maybe. Drop out a proxy at a lower resolution and interpret that to your sequence, then try again. But check your specs and configs. Some newer tech and software haven't been playing well as of late, and you may have fallen prey to those bugs.


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Tero Ahlfors
Re: Premiere Pro, Lag and Lag everywhere, WHY ! Please aid me in optimizing my System.
on Apr 4, 2015 at 8:18:52 am

[Ht Davis] "I work on a macbook pro (2008) with 4gb ram (maxed out) 2.16ghz intel core2duo, 256mb gfx. All 1080 video is heavy."

You might want to invest on a modern computer.


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Ht Davis
Re: Premiere Pro, Lag and Lag everywhere, WHY ! Please aid me in optimizing my System.
on Apr 6, 2015 at 4:48:24 am

If I had the $$$ I would.


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Sibel Zivy
Re: Premiere Pro, Lag and Lag everywhere, WHY ! Please aid me in optimizing my System.
on Apr 4, 2015 at 4:19:42 am
Last Edited By Sibel Zivy on Apr 4, 2015 at 4:26:49 am

Jeff it might be a while until I can get a new drive, But I'll turn off indexing .
Could you spare some advice concerning how I should arrange and keep my files between my SSD(APP) and HDD(Video), I fairly certain that I'm not properly arranged with this.
What does indexing has to with it though ?
Yes I've also updated to 8.2 yesterday.

Thank you very much Jeff!


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Sibel Zivy
Re: Premiere Pro, Lag and Lag everywhere, WHY ! Please aid me in optimizing my System.
on Apr 4, 2015 at 8:25:12 am

Also Jeff would you mind explaining the difference between the green and black WD drives, when I view their specs they were very similar, the retail guy said that the black had a longer life span which is why it was more expensive, I do feel deceived, But why is the black better and can I go for a better option ?
I'm starting to think my bottle neck could be the drive..

Thanks Jeff


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Ht Davis
Re: Premiere Pro, Lag and Lag everywhere, WHY ! Please aid me in optimizing my System.
on Apr 6, 2015 at 5:20:15 am

Is this a single drive enclosure?

If so... ...That may be the problem. USB 2 is limited to 480mbps max and rarely goes above 50 in most enclosures. USB3, while rated at 1.5-5gbps rarely goes above 300mbps on quad core machines with HDD's (it's a limit of processing more than the bandwidth). Most HDD's cannot handle much more than 300mbps because of their mechanical nature. RAID is a technology of combining the speeds of several drives (as well as the space), and they are better to use for video editing than a single drive external for a multitude of reasons. 2 cheaper, smaller space drives can be faster than one bigger drive since the data is written in stripes (across both drives, alternating packets) and twice the data can move in the same amount of time. This also results in fewer writes to each drive, extending the life of the plates. They can reach data rates of 800mbps to 1.3gbps with 2 drives set up to stripe. More drives allows more speed, and more space.
Remember also, with HDD's your spin is a big part of your speed. 5400 to 7200 is a pretty big jump in speed. But reading an original is what happens in rendering. Using a raid with 2 5400rpm drives (cheaper drives) is better than using a single 7200 at the same space of the combined 2, for speed reasons. Put your originals on their own RAID and you'll be able to read them faster as well. Reads are usually 12-100mbps for most usb HDD's. FOr RAID, the device will transfer much faster to several drives. 400mbps-1.5gbps depending on your interface (usb3 will max at about 1.3gbps with 4 drive raid at 5400rpm on each drive; at least that's been my experience on some newer towers with windows, and 1.2 with mac 8cores).


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Jeff Pulera
Re: Premiere Pro, Lag and Lag everywhere, WHY ! Please aid me in optimizing my System.
on Apr 6, 2015 at 1:44:23 pm

The "Green" drives are all about POWER SAVINGS versus PERFORMANCE of the "Black" drives. Green drives will spin down every chance they get. Just not ever recommended for video editing which needs constant, reliable throughput without interruption.

Ht - I now understand your suggestion to use proxy editing, as you stated your computer is a "dinosaur". I think most folks on the forum on using something at least from the current decade, so when they have performance issues, we look for solutions other than proxy editing which would be a crutch when perhaps there is a better solution to their issues.

Thanks

Jeff Pulera
Safe Harbor Computers


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Sibel Zivy
Re: Premiere Pro, Lag and Lag everywhere, WHY ! Please aid me in optimizing my System.
on Apr 9, 2015 at 10:30:49 am

Hey Jeff !!! I took your advice and I found this amazing HDD, WD's Velociraptor, It's in my Amazon my cart and the 1TB version is on sale @ 193$,Luckily I can barely cough that out with my budget, So would you recommend it or is it way too much power for my application, mind you all I'll be using is H.264, So what's your verdict ?


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Jeff Pulera
Re: Premiere Pro, Lag and Lag everywhere, WHY ! Please aid me in optimizing my System.
on Apr 9, 2015 at 1:36:49 pm

I didn't say to get a Velociraptor...you can get the "WD Caviar Black" for less than half that cost and it will be fine for your needs. Maybe get a 2TB instead and still cost less.

Thanks

Jeff Pulera
Safe Harbor Computers


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Sibel Zivy
Re: Premiere Pro, Lag and Lag everywhere, WHY ! Please aid me in optimizing my System.
on Apr 10, 2015 at 4:37:45 am
Last Edited By Sibel Zivy on Apr 15, 2015 at 6:15:51 am

I'll get your recommendation,
the 2TB Caviar Black has better value plus I've seen benchmarks, the 70$ difference isn't really justifiable for the Velociraptor.

Thanks Jeff and god bless !


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Ht Davis
Re: Premiere Pro, Lag and Lag everywhere, WHY ! Please aid me in optimizing my System.
on Apr 10, 2015 at 7:13:10 am

to be clear about my earlier post...
I work 4 projects a week. The longer ones I usually use a proxy\prores, this gives a slight boost in quality over most originals, but when I actually output, I use a prores rendered from a separate machine.

When I said to keep audio and video previews on the same drive, it doesn't matter which drive, as long as it is big enough for the whole thing, and connected to a fast enough interface.

Finally, my own spec:
I work mostly on a 2008 Macbook pro with 256mb gfx card and intel core2duo 2.16 with 4gbram. I have a 5400rpm internal 1tb, and another 7200rpm spare drive internal (replaced cd\dvd drive). I use 2 esata raid 3 and 4 drives with 5400's in them to hold my decompressed files (proxies and prores full) and my disk images for the projects ( i keep all my projects organized on sparse images limited to 50-100gb for archival, it keeps them all organized and I can burn the image at my leisure); I use 3 firewire raid attached to a hub, for backups and for initial renders (preview files). Using these interfaces, I edit 4 projects a week, and output at least 2 with more than 4 hours total footage, and at least 1 other with more than an hour. This is on average for the past 90 days.
I render out my rips for encore (cddvd) on other machines, but render my output from premiere to ProresLT or prores full 422, then pass it out to another computer for render (using one of the firewire drives to transport it between the two or by using compressor to render across a network for smaller project clips).

Use RAID drives to guarantee fuller drive speed, and use your fastest interface (plug). This will enable you to work faster.

Tips:
1. leave the cache internal on a drive that matches your OS for permissions capability (ntfs for windows, HFS+ for mac).
2. Put previews on their own drive but together.
3. Dedicate a Drive for output from premiere (output to a large format then drop down to a compress for best quality)
4. render your effects regularly throughout the work (every few effects), and render the work area when you leave the office (so it will be ready in the morning), then reboot when you come back and the render is done).
5. Find your own method for containing your main project files and smaller image\graphic files for your project, I use disk images because I can archive them quickly, or just RAR split and burn to dvd (I've had a near miss on that "Oh sh*T!" moment and it saved my butt). I also use an incremental image backup of my files to an external (only the work files, and any renders, including proxies, I ignore the full formats, as I can remake them on another machine while I work; I do borrow that machine though, it's not mine).


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Sibel Zivy
Re: Premiere Pro, Lag and Lag everywhere, WHY ! Please aid me in optimizing my System.
on Apr 12, 2015 at 10:06:44 am

Mr Davis your workflow is Amazing, But my bottleneck is my HDD drive, So hopefully I'll get mine shipped within the week and I'll report back to you!


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Ht Davis
Re: Premiere Pro, Lag and Lag everywhere, WHY ! Please aid me in optimizing my System.
on Apr 13, 2015 at 11:24:21 pm

So you believe you've Identified your problem... ...If you have, WONDERFUL!

I used to do IT for a small office, where there were only 2 computers when I started. As more computers were wired in, I was relied on more an more for support, even to the point of HDD recovery. I was also a consult on Server technology.

Don't forget, a single drive is great, and cheap. The faster the spin, the faster the drive, typically.
However, when reading, the drive is slower than it's RPM rating (which is usually a measure of the single random write speed), sometimes a lot slower. With RAID drives, you can nearly double the read speed with two drive enclosures and with more drives, you multiply your reads even more, and you can get closer to the speed of your port (plug\wire\connection to the enclosure). That's why most servers use the SAS SATA RAID, especially when designed specifically for database or document use\storage.

Storage space\speed, ram, system drives, and output were all a part of my consideration at each change I made to my system. I chose HDD internals because I could get 1tb HDD's cheap, and I needed the space for other suites I use besides adobe. I do maintain internals with major repair\defrags twice a year. I back up to Time machine, regularly (once a week), and to a differential IMAGE once every two weeks (I do the same with my main work files, excluding the Full Format transcodes to pro res). I can continue work after a day's recovery, and have another machine do the transcode to full res and uncompressed prores while I finish edits with the proxies and previews recovered. I've had one drive fail, and recovered it quickly. It kept me on time for my deadline. Ultimately, such considerations allow me to offer an archival to my clients. I can revisit a project at any time. I charge them at the front end a standard fee, if they want, or double that later. Considering your workflow carefully can help your bottom line, especially when your job market isn't exactly booming.


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Sibel Zivy
Re: Premiere Pro, Lag and Lag everywhere, WHY ! Please aid me in optimizing my System.
on Apr 13, 2015 at 11:45:54 pm

Mr. Davis please send me an email at qwasiz-ex@hotmail.com.

Thank you so much you've very elaborate and helpful, I appreciate the stuff you've shared.


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