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Problems with importing a big image.

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Dan Pullit
Problems with importing a big image.
on Apr 2, 2015 at 1:24:33 am

I need to import a big image in PP. It's used for a zoom in on a specific instrument. So it needs to be big and it also has an alpha because it was rotoscoped.

Problem is every time I bring it it, PP starts to freeze and move like it's got molasses. It's an 8mb pgn file...

I have 32 GB of ram on a mac pro. Is there something I'm doing wrong? I brought in even bigger in FCP with no problem.

Is this normal in PP?

Thank You!


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Problems with importing a big image.
on Apr 2, 2015 at 2:26:20 am

You said pgn, may we assume you REALLY meant .png?

If so, try exporting a new file that supports an alpha channel, from Photoshop, such as .tga, .tiff, etc., and see if that helps.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Dan Pullit
Re: Problems with importing a big image.
on Apr 2, 2015 at 2:58:54 am

Yes, sorry - meant .png.

I tried .psd, tga & tiff too. Same problem. I mean the photo is large, but I don't see why that should matter so much. Especially since I haven't even got to zooming in etc.. it's just displaying it in a static position on the screen and everything has slowed to a crawl.

Once I clear it from the bin, I'm back to normal again.

Any thoughts - thanks.


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Alex Udell
Re: Problems with importing a big image.
on Apr 2, 2015 at 9:32:50 am

dunno why...

but although a complex work around....

maybe the zoom in is better built in AE

and then brought as a clip to PPro...

Alex Udell
Editing, Motion Graphics, and Visual FX


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Dan Pullit
Re: Problems with importing a big image.
on Apr 2, 2015 at 6:14:52 pm

Thank you Alex.

Yes, that's what I ended up doing, but it seems counter intuitive for something so simple. I don't remember having this problem in FCP.


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Alex Udell
Re: Problems with importing a big image.
on Apr 2, 2015 at 7:36:39 pm

did you turn down viewport resolution for example?

sorry if that's a dumb question…

Alex Udell
Editing, Motion Graphics, and Visual FX


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Kevin Monahan
Re: Problems with importing a big image.
on Apr 2, 2015 at 9:35:38 pm

Hi Dan,
Are the frame dimensions over 4000 x 4000 pixels? Try reducing graphics to less than that in size.

Thanks,
Kevin

Kevin Monahan
Support Product Manager—DVA
Adobe After Effects
Adobe Premiere Pro
Adobe
Follow Me on Twitter!


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Problems with importing a big image.
on Apr 2, 2015 at 9:41:25 pm

[Kevin Monahan] "Are the frame dimensions over 4000 x 4000 pixels? Try reducing graphics to less than that in size.
"


I think he said his still is larger than that Kevin, but I can't find it... Is 4000 x 4000 pixels a limitation of Premiere?

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Dan Pullit
Re: Problems with importing a big image.
on Apr 3, 2015 at 12:28:37 am
Last Edited By Dan Pullit on Apr 3, 2015 at 12:31:44 am

Hello Kevin,

The dimensions are
height: 5300
width: 2387

Of course I could resize, but then the zoom in would be really poor quality as it needs to go from the whole to a detail.

I've also tried removing the alpha channel and this helps a bit but not much.

It's very strange to have to go to AE for a simple zoom in. BTW - it absolutely flies in AE with no problems whatsoever. It's just that it complicates the workflow.

Mind you, as stated earlier, PP turns to molasses when I just bring it into the timeline, never mind the zoom.

It baffles me because this would be a basic move for something like a documentary where you show a huge group picture and then you zoom to a specific person... Or many other such situations.

David - If there is a 4k limitation, that seems hugely myopic on the part of Adobe's PP team.


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Ht Davis
Re: Problems with importing a big image.
on Apr 3, 2015 at 2:52:57 am

Therein lies your problem. Premiere is not AE.

Premiere is sequencing, not effects. It has a few effects and it's engine can handle a few, or link to AE for help when you use an AE comp, but it cannot do it on it's own.

You say it freezes... ...Did it freeze on import of the file? Or did it freeze on Sequencing it?

The problem may be with your sequence being too small for the file or the pixel aspect ratio not matching up. If it doesn't like it on import...

PNG is portable NETWORK graphic. While there is some support for this file type at 1080, I haven't seen much support beyond that. You may want to try a TGA or a TIFF.

Rotoscoped?
IS this a moving image or a STILL? A moving image shouldn't be a PNG but a GIF. If the image already moves, you should add the zoom in After Effects with the rotoscope by using a nested comp. Once you bring it in to premiere as an AE comp, set the zoom to conform to your sequence size as you want it with a key at frame 1 of the clip, and then zoom in further from there as you wish.


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Dan Pullit
Re: Problems with importing a big image.
on Apr 3, 2015 at 3:13:34 am

It's a still.

Adobe considers zooming into an image an "effect"?

More than that, it's not working properly even when it's sitting still on the timeline. I guess Adobe considers that an "effect" as well :(

Call me crazy but I would expect something as simple as that to work in PP. It did in FCP.

I was hoping that I was doing something wrong. In my current project I have a lot of big images.

To have to resize them all, to even be able place them statically on the timeline seems a bit unreasonable for an NLE - unless it's microsoft Movie Maker :)


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Ht Davis
Re: Problems with importing a big image.
on Apr 3, 2015 at 3:24:16 am

Does it freeze on import?


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Ht Davis
Re: Problems with importing a big image.
on Apr 3, 2015 at 3:33:09 am

Yes. It is an effect. Simply placing it on a timeline is not, but it is bigger than your sequence. It is rendering a lot off-screen, in areas that are completely undefined for the video.

Zooming is an effect. Playing video is an effect, it's just a bunch of stills being played really fast. FCP?
What version? FCPX? IT conforms your input on import. Premiere expects that you know what the hell you're doing, that you are professional enough to conform your material to your sequence if it is too much different. If you are hoping to get a zoom from a large still that goes far beyond your sequence, you need to do so in a program that handles a larger workspace.

Plus:
Don't discount file errors. PNG has it's limitations. Look them up. I've had similar issues with a WAV file that went beyond the standard WAV spec (it was a 6gb file and WAV supports 4gb). Check your resolution and file size against PNG specifications. It may be that you have gone beyond that spec and premiere doesn't like that. After effects was made for working with files like that. It only defines them loosely. You could put it in AE and then bring in the comp. That would allow you to set your zooms from a rendered or ordered clip. Premiere wouldn't bat an eye at that, as it wouldn't have any attribute except being video data. You should be able to play then.


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Dan Pullit
Re: Problems with importing a big image.
on Apr 3, 2015 at 4:18:46 am

Yep, that's what I did. I put them in AE. It works.

I could not find any limit (at least not one I've crossed) for .png.

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4109447/file-format-limits-in-pixel-size...

http://www.libpng.org/pub/png/spec/iso/index-object.html#11IHDR

Ah, so that's why it worked in FCPX. I would bring in big images and put them on the timeline.

Is this standard procedure? Always resizing before bringing into PP?

Sorry for the silly questions but my main app is Houdini and I regularly bring in 16k maps for texturing. I use NLE's like PP to stitch things together and I don't know their limitations.


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Ht Davis
Re: Problems with importing a big image.
on Apr 3, 2015 at 5:54:02 am

Again, you kind of missed the point of the limit discussion...
They talk about pixel limits... Not the same as file size. Two images of the same pixel dimensions can have drastically different file sizes for a number of reasons. IF they are of different subjects, the amount of color info will be different. IF they are photos of the same subject but exposed differently, the same is true. If one is black and white (greyscale) and the other color, the representation will be different. If the bit width of color values is different (8bit vs 16), etc, they will take up different amounts of space on a hard drive. Check to make sure that the space requirement for the PNG matches the standard premiere can handle.


And remember, Premiere handles a PNG like a title. If it's an image, it has trouble. IF you put it in AE first, it will see video information with an alpha channel, instead of a title image.

Final cut sees all as video first. You have to make your own titles as video, not as images. Premiere can use exports from illustrator as titles; great for making many titles or subs quickly. I use to make a HUD for a choir group. The Maestro uses it to keep pace with video pieces he plays in the background during his performances (and he has to time just perfectly so the math is crazy sometimes when the piece changes from ¾ to 5/4 midway).


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Dan Pullit
Re: Problems with importing a big image.
on Apr 3, 2015 at 1:26:33 pm
Last Edited By Dan Pullit on Apr 3, 2015 at 2:58:06 pm

I understand now but still find it hard to make sense. It's an 8mb image, 8 bit.

So is this the de facto way of working with big images in PP? Taking them to AE and then bringing them into PP? I'm asking because I have a lot of big images and in some cases I want some panning across or some zooming in.

I'd like to have the full resolution picture to work with if possible.

Your project sounds very interesting. Synching live music to video always fascinated me.


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Daniel Waldron
Re: Problems with importing a big image.
on Apr 3, 2015 at 1:43:24 pm

I would keep searching for a solution. I just completed a project that had several images larger than the one you described, and other than needing to render them in the timeline to avoid laggy playback, everything works fine. I have zooms, blurs, and several color correction filters on them too.

Sorry for the mini-rant, but I'm tired of the cop-out answer that you should just go to After Effects to solve your Premiere Pro problems. I love AE, but going to AE for simple techniques like zooming on a photo or feathering a mask (thankfully fixed in CC!) is a cumbersome workaround of a flaw that shouldn't be there to begin with. I think the latest version of Premiere is a huge step forward in solving a lot of these issues, as well as introducing some fantastic new features, but once in a while there are still odd bugs and it seems like the standard go-to response is "just do it in After Effects," while basically blaming the editor for even thinking Premiere could handle it. It's a solution that is good to have (better than nothing!), but should not be the default answer when other NLEs have found solutions years ago. Again, going to AE is better than not having any solution, but I think more of the blame needs to be placed on Adobe for taking so long to fix these issues than on the person using their software.


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Alex Udell
Re: Problems with importing a big image.
on Apr 3, 2015 at 11:34:49 pm

Here's a question....

are you using mercury engine in hardware (gpu) or software (cpu) mode?

toggle that...and see if it makes a difference...


maybe the GPU doesn't like mapping images that large (dimensions) ?

shot in the dark...

Alex Udell
Editing, Motion Graphics, and Visual FX


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Dan Pullit
Re: Problems with importing a big image.
on Apr 4, 2015 at 12:00:03 am
Last Edited By Dan Pullit on Apr 4, 2015 at 12:23:37 am

[Alex Udell] "Here's a question....

are you using mercury engine in hardware (gpu) or software (cpu) mode?

toggle that...and see if it makes a difference...


maybe the GPU doesn't like mapping images that large (dimensions) ?

shot in the dark...

Alex Udell
Editing, Motion Graphics, and Visual FX"







Aaaaaarghhhh -
I need to buy you a beer Alex.

That was IT! It works perfectly now!

THANK YOU for preventing my visit to the looney bin :)


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Problems with importing a big image.
on Apr 4, 2015 at 12:27:16 am

Good guess Alex!!! And, one for the Premiere FAQ... I'm sure Kevin and the gang at Adobe HQ will love this great find.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Dan Pullit
Re: Problems with importing a big image.
on Apr 4, 2015 at 12:10:00 am
Last Edited By Dan Pullit on Apr 4, 2015 at 12:10:48 am

[Daniel Waldron] "I would keep searching for a solution. I just completed a project that had several images larger than the one you described, and other than needing to render them in the timeline to avoid laggy playback, everything works fine. I have zooms, blurs, and several color correction filters on them too.

Sorry for the mini-rant, but I'm tired of the cop-out answer that you should just go to After Effects to solve your Premiere Pro problems. I love AE, but going to AE for simple techniques like zooming on a photo or feathering a mask (thankfully fixed in CC!) is a cumbersome workaround of a flaw that shouldn't be there to begin with. I think the latest version of Premiere is a huge step forward in solving a lot of these issues, as well as introducing some fantastic new features, but once in a while there are still odd bugs and it seems like the standard go-to response is "just do it in After Effects," while basically blaming the editor for even thinking Premiere could handle it. It's a solution that is good to have (better than nothing!), but should not be the default answer when other NLEs have found solutions years ago. Again, going to AE is better than not having any solution, but I think more of the blame needs to be placed on Adobe for taking so long to fix these issues than on the person using their software."


Hi Daniel

I'm hardly a PP expert but thank you for not making me feel stupid by thinking that such things should be normal in an NLE! I finally figured it out thanks to Alex.

I agree, the AE trip should not occur for such trivial things. For me it presents problems - For example: I don't know how to include audio clips (non related to video - narration) in this round trip to AE from the PP timeline. All I get in AE is just the video clip. And I had to cut this zoom to certain words....

augh... thank goodness I don't have to do it.


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Alex Udell
Re: Problems with importing a big image.
on Apr 4, 2015 at 12:06:09 pm

if the automated methods of sending things to AE don't work...

you can always copy in PPro and paste into a comp in AE...

this will allow you to select the specific elements you need....


glad you didn't have to resort to it in this case...


cheers!

Alex


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