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Rendering issues

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Gina Sarentino
Rendering issues
on Dec 29, 2014 at 2:13:58 am

Hey all, recently Ive noticed a new issue which never happened to me before and now im quite concerned. I havefootage from both Red and DSLR, the red is 24fps natively and the DSLR is 23.976fps natively. Now when i render out both footages and I set the render to 24fps I notice that the file doesnt display the correct time. So I decided to drag my rendered footage into premiere and check it out. It turns out that my render is displaying as 24 fps but its adding an extra frame, and when i scrub through the footage in the viewer i notice that the frame count goes up to 29.

Another thing i need to mention is that when i render the DSLR as 23.976 its completely fine. But when i render the already 24 fps red as 24 fps i still have this issue.

And when i tried doing the same on an older version of premiere pro (version 7.0.0) i didnt get this issue. Only now in CC 2014 am i getting this issue.

If anyone can help id really appreciate it. Thanks


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Tim Kolb
Re: Rendering issues
on Dec 30, 2014 at 5:40:29 pm

If you're editing both types of media to the same sequence, the sequence should be set to 24 or 23.976 fps and whichever footage is not a match would be best handled by using the 'interpret footage' feature on the media in the project panel/bin to change the frame rate of the clip to match the sequence. (This ensures that all the frames are there, but simply played back at the new frame rate).

You'll probably have to give a more detailed step by step account of what you're doing to come up with any troubleshooting help on the 29th frame thing if it's something other than unintentionally having the sequence set for 29.97 fps

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


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Gina Sarentino
Re: Rendering issues
on Jan 3, 2015 at 9:19:50 am

Hey Tim, thanks for the response.

Here is my workflow: i set up my premiere sequence as 23.976 for my DSLR footage, I do my edits etc. I then export the media, my setup is custom. The resolution is 1920x1080, i set the fps to 24fps and leave it as NTSC, the pixel aspect ratio stays at Square Pixels 1. I set my profile to high 4.1 and then i set the min and max bitrates and I render.

Now on all my other versions of Pr I never had this issue, after the render i check the file and the frame count goes up to 29 frames. I dont understand why. But when i render the DSLR footage as 23.976 i dont get any issues.

I have a feeling something is wrong with my copy of Premiere, cause when I take a footage that is natively 24fps and render it as 24 fps it still goes up to 29 frames. Im very concerened about this so any help will be appreciated.


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Tim Kolb
Re: Rendering issues
on Jan 3, 2015 at 4:44:48 pm

First off, let's get our terminology straight...'render' means preview rendering on the edit sequence to most of us. It would appear from your description that you are talking about 'exporting' to a different format.

If you choose an 'NTSC' export profile, the default frame rate will usually be 29.97 fps. You need to choose an export preset that supports the proper framerate, or manually set it.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Video Producer at I-CAR




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Gina Sarentino
Re: ndering issues
on Jan 3, 2015 at 4:48:05 pm

The exporter in premiere automatically sets the footage to NTSC. And I always make sure to set the correct framerate.

Whats confusing me the most it that other versions of premiere dont do this.


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Tim Kolb
Re: ndering issues
on Jan 3, 2015 at 5:19:39 pm

I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean here...

What format are you trying to export to? H264? MPEG2? What does the exporter setting say at the top?

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Video Producer at I-CAR




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Gina Sarentino
Re: ndering issues
on Jan 3, 2015 at 5:28:59 pm

Here is my typical export settings.



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Tim Kolb
Re: ndering issues
on Jan 3, 2015 at 5:56:44 pm

Hmmm...and you're getting a clip that is not 24 fps from this?

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Video Producer at I-CAR




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Gina Sarentino
Re: ndering issues
on Jan 3, 2015 at 6:05:46 pm
Last Edited By Gina Sarentino on Jan 3, 2015 at 6:29:57 pm

This is what I get:








And this is what I get in After Effects



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Tim Kolb
Re: ndering issues
on Jan 3, 2015 at 8:10:52 pm

That looks right...

So...what is it you're seeing that indicates the output file has a 29th frame in a second?

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Video Producer at I-CAR




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Gina Sarentino
Re: ndering issues
on Jan 4, 2015 at 1:12:18 am

Yes. Now when I take the same video into premiere cs5.5 and I export it the same way, and open the file in cs5.5 I dont have this issue. But as soon as I bring that export from cs5.5 to cc 2014 again it will show me incorrectly. One more thing I'd like to mention is that on premiere 7.0.0 I did not experience this issue.


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Tim Kolb
Re: ndering issues
on Jan 4, 2015 at 2:03:00 am

So...the PPro 5.5 export imported into CC2014...how do the clip properties look there?

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Video Producer at I-CAR




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Gina Sarentino
Re: ndering issues
on Jan 4, 2015 at 11:29:26 am
Last Edited By Gina Sarentino on Jan 4, 2015 at 4:47:51 pm

Here are my settings in cs 5.5



Here is the results of the cs 5.5 export, imported into CC 2014







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Tim Kolb
Re: ndering issues
on Jan 4, 2015 at 4:46:42 pm

The images aren't coming up for some reason.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Video Producer at I-CAR




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Gina Sarentino
Re: ndering issues
on Jan 5, 2015 at 6:18:03 am

Settings in Cs5.5



Results in CC 2014







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Tim Kolb
Re: ndering issues
on Jan 5, 2015 at 11:05:35 am

are you showing the source or program sequence controls?

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Video Producer at I-CAR




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Gina Sarentino
Re: ndering issues
on Jan 5, 2015 at 12:28:39 pm

The photos after the cs 5.5 settings are what I get when I take that cs 5.5 export into cc2014.


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Gina Sarentino
Re: ndering issues
on Jan 6, 2015 at 6:45:01 am

Hi Tim

I wanted to add a small note, as I was working today I noticed a small detail in this issue. Now im posting a photo below of what my timecode looks like when I bring in a exported 24fps file (the same file that shows upto 29 frames)



Notice how the breakers are semi colons (;). I realized that usually these breaks between the numbers are colons (:). I hope this is not confusing.

So then I put that 24fps exported clip into my timeline and I double clicked it to show it in the viewer, and everything is fine, in the viewer it displays a correct timecode, and the breakers are colons (:). But in the project window it displays it inaccurately.

I hope this is not confusing.


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Tim Kolb
Re: ndering issues
on Jan 6, 2015 at 11:20:37 am

Yes, this is part of what I was driving at...

Semi-colons indicate drop-frame 29.97 timecode. If you don't see them in the source window, then it means you've placed your 24 fps clip on a 29.97 fps timeline...which will show you 29.97 timecode and frame numbering.

Does the source window show a 29 frame count?

Is this the sequence setting you got if you auto-create a sequence from the clip settings?

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Video Producer at I-CAR




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Gina Sarentino
Re: ndering issues
on Jan 6, 2015 at 11:26:34 am

Yes when I put double click the video it shows the 29 frame count on the source window.

The file that I open in the source window isn't in any sequence, but when I put it in my custom sequence (its a 23.976 fps sequence) it displays everything correctly in the source window. Am I making sense?

I have myself created the sequence settings according to the files Im working with.

I really appreciate your help Tim, if you could just guide me on what to do further to solve this issue it would be great.


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Tim Kolb
Re: ndering issues
on Jan 7, 2015 at 9:55:42 pm

I'm not entirely sure what the issue is yet.

When you bring in the file from CS5.5...in CC...

I'd like to account for all the following scenarios:

1. Double click on the clip in the project panel after it's imported...(do not place it in a sequence yet)
-does it show 29 frames in the counter in the source panel?
-does it show the clip as 24 fps in the top of the project window?

2. Drag the clip over the 'new item' icon on the bottom of the project panel...
-what are the sequence settings for the sequence that is created from the clip?

3. Try exporting a clip from CS5.5 at 23.976 fps instead of 24 and see if that exhibits any strange behaviors in CC with the same tests please.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Video Producer at I-CAR




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Gina Sarentino
Re: ndering issues
on Jan 10, 2015 at 12:08:46 pm

Hi Tim sorry for the late reply,

I ran the tests, here are the results:

I brought the exported 24fps file from Cs5.5 to CC:

1.the timecode goes up to 29frames in the source panel. In the Project window it shows that the video goes up to 24secs and 28frames.

2.When I drag for it to create a new sequence, it creates this :



---------------------------------------------------------------------

I now did the 3rd part. I exported a 23.976 video from Cs5.5, brought it over to CC.

1.In the source panel it goes up to 23 frames, and in the project panel it displays the file as 24 secs 22 frames.

2. I made a new sequence by dragging the file onto the new item tag, here are the results:




I hope this helps, do let me know if anything further is needed.


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Tim Kolb
Re: ndering issues
on Jan 10, 2015 at 1:38:39 pm

It does appear as if exporting in 23.976fps works correctly vs 24 which creates some weird interpretation...

In my professional experience, 23.976 is a far more common frame rate for a number of reasons...possibly why more people haven't stumbled upon this glitch?

I'd simply stick with 23.976 in your case.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Video Producer at I-CAR




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Gina Sarentino
Re: ndering issues
on Jan 10, 2015 at 1:43:01 pm

Thanks for the help Tim, just one last question. Do you think this glitch is just a problem with my CC, or is there an issue in the encoding and exporting process?

Also for cinema I need 24fps, do you think itll be an issue if I export it as 23.976fps?


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Tim Kolb
Re: ndering issues
on Jan 10, 2015 at 1:50:18 pm

If the requirement is 24fps, then there is the issue that your original edit sequence is 23.976 in CS5.5...right?

What do you need to do in CC that requires the export from CS5.5 for import into CC?

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Video Producer at I-CAR




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Gina Sarentino
Re: ndering issues
on Jan 10, 2015 at 1:52:21 pm

Im only working in CC, I was just using Cs5.5 to see if I had any issues with my exports there.

Im going to outputting to cinema and I have my 23.976fps with a few 24fps clips from Red camera, that's basically what my sequence consists of.


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Tim Kolb
Re: ndering issues
on Jan 10, 2015 at 10:27:41 pm

I really don't follow why you're moving clips back and forth to test (it seems this bug doesn't affect your workflow at all so chasing it seems futile), but your edit would be far cleaner if you interpret all your footage to a single framerate...either 23.976 or 24.

If you have a theater venue that requires 24 fps, then using that framerate might be ideal.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Video Producer at I-CAR




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Gina Sarentino
Re: ndering issues
on Jan 10, 2015 at 10:29:45 pm

Thanks for the help Tim. Ill most likely interpret all the footages to 24fps and go ahead from there.


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