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Better to edit using scratch audio & then later sync ? or Sync everything first before edit ?

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Shravan Ram
Better to edit using scratch audio & then later sync ? or Sync everything first before edit ?
on Jul 22, 2014 at 4:39:48 pm

I have 65 GB worth of footage for a 15-minute short film.
Audio was recorded separately.

Should I do a rough edit using only the scratch audio since it's faster ?

And later do the sync ? or should I sync them all first ?

Clapperboard was used.

Either way I have to listen to every individual audio clip and name them according to the slate/shot/take number ( there are around 200 of them ) to identify which is the one I need ,right ?

Any suggestion as to how this can be done more efficiently / faster ?


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Jeff Coleman
Re: Better to edit using scratch audio & then later sync ? or Sync everything first before edit ?
on Jul 22, 2014 at 4:54:02 pm

I sync before I start editing. I've used Plural Eyes in Final Cut Pro 7 to greatly speed up the process. Red Giant says it's compatible with Premiere Pro, but I've never used in Premiere.
http://www.redgiant.com/products/all/pluraleyes/


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Walter Soyka
Re: Better to edit using scratch audio & then later sync ? or Sync everything first before edit ?
on Jul 22, 2014 at 5:02:55 pm

I've only done a handful of synced sound projects, but I prefer to sync everything ahead of time so I can make editorial decisions on both the visuals and the audio.

I have used DualEyes/PluralEyes [link] to sync audio to video, and create new intermediate media for interoperability down the line.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Matt Townley
Re: Better to edit using scratch audio & then later sync ? or Sync everything first before edit ?
on Jul 22, 2014 at 5:14:58 pm

Sync first. I have two workflows depending on the size of the project.

If there are only a handful of clips, I'll just use the built-in sync tool in Premiere. It works fine but can only do one clip at a time and you have to know which ones match up. Good for simple/small projects.

For larger projects, throw everything into PluralEyes and let it sync for you. Then export an XML for Premiere and open that up in Premiere. There are probably lots of ways to go from here, but I like to create my sequence with the settings I want and then copy and paste the synced clips into that sequence. Lots of variations, so play around a bit and find what feels/works best for you.


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Shravan Ram
Re: Better to edit using scratch audio & then later sync ? or Sync everything first before edit ?
on Jul 22, 2014 at 5:30:33 pm

Thanks.

This sounds good.

How does PluralEyes work ?

Ok this might be a silly question but..anyway

Suppose I have 100 audio files and 100 video clips - and I want to sync each of the video with the corresponding audio I just put them all in the software ? How do we tell the software which audio clip is supposed to fit to which video clip ?


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Walter Soyka
Re: Better to edit using scratch audio & then later sync ? or Sync everything first before edit ?
on Jul 22, 2014 at 5:36:45 pm

[Shravan Ram] "Suppose I have 100 audio files and 100 video clips - and I want to sync each of the video with the corresponding audio I just put them all in the software ? How do we tell the software which audio clip is supposed to fit to which video clip ?"

PluralEyes compares the externally recorded audio with the camera audio scratch track and syncs automagically. It'll work on a pile of files.

Try the trial.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Better to edit using scratch audio & then later sync ? or Sync everything first before edit ?
on Jul 22, 2014 at 11:15:12 pm

[Matt Townley] "If there are only a handful of clips, I'll just use the built-in sync tool in Premiere. It works fine but can only do one clip at a time and you have to know which ones match up. Good for simple/small projects."

Matt,

That has not been my experience with the built in syncing in PPro. For example, I'm editing an 11 episode doc web series right now and I'll take an entire day's worth of footage (3 cameras plus 4 channels of outboard audio) and have Premiere sync it up (works perfect 99% of the time). Over the course of a day I'll have broll, sit down interviews and walkthroughs (like a guided tour of a factory) and it's around 6-8 hours of footage and 200-300 clips. Takes about 15 minutes for PPro to sync then I just go in and do a little cleaning up and then I'm off to the races.

When I first started using PPro I pre-sorted the footage (here is all of Bob's interview media, there is all of Mikes interview media, etc.,) but on a lark I decided to do a whole day at once to see what would happen and it blew my socks off that it worked.


Personally, I'd sync it all up before hand because I find over cutting dialog unbearably tedious because of how cut up it can become during an edit.


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Shravan Ram
Re: Better to edit using scratch audio & then later sync ? or Sync everything first before edit ?
on Jul 23, 2014 at 11:49:12 am

So this is the kind of workflow I'm planning:

( I have around 300 video clips and audio clips )

1)Browse through all video footage and identify the ones that I think are good/can be used/may be used and rename those clips according to Slate no/Take no.

2) Browse through audio files to find corresponding audio to above selected video files by listening to the Slate no/Take no and similarly rename only those files by their Slate/Take no

3) Now I have all my video files that I want to use/might use AND I have all their corresponding audio files that need to be synced.

4) Syncing :
I'll import the selected audio and video files into Premiere Pro in separate bins.

The question at this point is :
1) Can I only sync ONE Audio-Video pair at a time ? So say I have selected 100 video& audio clips , so I'll have to do the merge by audio function 100 times ?

2) Is there any way I can BATCH-process the sync ? Or is Plural Eyes the only way to do that ?

Thanks!


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Better to edit using scratch audio & then later sync ? or Sync everything first before edit ?
on Jul 23, 2014 at 5:07:58 pm

[Shravan Ram] "1) Can I only sync ONE Audio-Video pair at a time ? So say I have selected 100 video& audio clips , so I'll have to do the merge by audio function 100 times ?

2) Is there any way I can BATCH-process the sync ? Or is Plural Eyes the only way to do that ?"


You can batch the whole thing by putting all the clips in one bin, selecting them all, then telling PPro to Create Multi-camera Source Sequence. Each matching pair of audio/video will end up in it's own sequence. Even if there is only one camera you can still work with the multicam sequences.

Merged clips seem to be problematic in PPro so I've avoided using them (plus I usually work on multicamera projects).

http://www.larryjordan.biz/premiere-pro-cc-a-better-way-to-merge/

http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/3/952403


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Steve Brame
Re: Better to edit using scratch audio & then later sync ? or Sync everything first before edit ?
on Jul 22, 2014 at 7:17:54 pm

As I said in your duplicate post, I prefer not to spend time syncing footage that wont be used, so I save it until I've made edit decisions.

To each his own.

Asus P6X58D Premium * Core i7 950 * 24GB RAM * nVidia Quadro 4000 * Windows 7 Premium 64bit * System Drive - WD Caviar Black 500GB * 2nd Drive(Pagefile, Previews) - WD Velociraptor 10K drive 600GB * Media Drive - 2TB RAID0 (4 - WD Caviar Black 500GB drive) * Matrox MX02 Mini * Adobe CC
-------------------------------------------
"98% of all computer issues can be solved by simply pressing 'F1'."
Steve Brame
creative illusions Productions


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Walter Soyka
Re: Better to edit using scratch audio & then later sync ? or Sync everything first before edit ?
on Jul 22, 2014 at 7:27:36 pm

[Steve Brame] "I prefer not to spend time syncing footage that wont be used, so I save it until I've made edit decisions. To each his own."

If I were hand-syncing the footage, I'd be more inclined to agree. But if I can have the computer do that for me, with only a minimum amount of effort on my part, I like knowing that I'm hearing the final audio as I make edit decisions, and I like having better audio on works-in-progress shown to the client.

But of course, as you say, to each his own. There are not right or wrong answers to questions like these -- just different trade-offs.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Steve Brame
Re: Better to edit using scratch audio & then later sync ? or Sync everything first before edit ?
on Jul 22, 2014 at 8:50:55 pm

Yeah, I was considering his initial post, in which he indicated a concern of the time involved with syncing hundreds of clips. If time isn't a factor, by all means, spend it syncing. I had given PluralEyes a try earlier on after seeing a demo at NAB, but my experience wasn't as pleasant as the demo. Perhaps I need to take another look - wasn't aware that it synced in batch. That would be a huge time-saver, unless you had to go back in a do a lot of hand tweaking.

Asus P6X58D Premium * Core i7 950 * 24GB RAM * nVidia Quadro 4000 * Windows 7 Premium 64bit * System Drive - WD Caviar Black 500GB * 2nd Drive(Pagefile, Previews) - WD Velociraptor 10K drive 600GB * Media Drive - 2TB RAID0 (4 - WD Caviar Black 500GB drive) * Matrox MX02 Mini * Adobe CC
-------------------------------------------
"98% of all computer issues can be solved by simply pressing 'F1'."
Steve Brame
creative illusions Productions


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Shravan Ram
Re: Better to edit using scratch audio & then later sync ? or Sync everything first before edit ?
on Jul 23, 2014 at 8:54:56 am

Thanks for all the suggestions !

So one final question..

Say I do the rough-edit using only the scratch audio and I have my picture locked..

Now I finally want to sync the audio to this edited sequence on my timeline.

Which is the best way to do this ?

Since the clips on the timeline already have their slate/clap sounds removed and I/O points marked ..how do I sync the original audio files to these ?

Do I again have to go through each of the 100 audio files individually to see which ones I need for to be on my timeline ? A bit confused..


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John Pale
Re: Better to edit using scratch audio & then later sync ? or Sync everything first before edit ?
on Jul 23, 2014 at 12:45:49 pm

One thng that needs to be mentioned about Plural Eyes and any other method that involves the software automatically syncing to your scratch audio....Cameras like the 5D and 7D on board audio is actually out of sync to its own picture by 1-2 frames..so if Plural Eyes syncs your external audio to it, that offset will follow. Has an offset feature even added to PE? I have not checked in awhile.


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