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rendering slowing internet connection

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Richard Angle
rendering slowing internet connection
on Mar 17, 2014 at 6:57:31 am

Could someone please explain to me why rendering/exporting in both Premiere as well as Media Encoder slows my internet connection? I really don't understand what the two have to do with each other at all.

For instance, I export my timeline "to queue" to send to Media Encoder in order to create a file. While rendering, I will often go online to do something else but the act of the render seriously slows my internet connection. So I pause the render in Media Encoder, and then my broadband speed immediately goes back to normal. Happens in both Media Encoder and when exporting directly from Premiere. And it happens every single time.

Why on Earth would one affect the other? It just makes no sense to me. Working in CS6. Thanks to all and any info would be greatly appreciated.


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Steve Brame
Re: rendering slowing internet connection
on Mar 17, 2014 at 11:27:59 am

Rendering/encoding video is a CPU intensive operation. I would venture to say that it isn't actually your internet connection that is slowing, but your CPU is so being monopolized by the render process that any other CPU activity going on simultaneously, including internet usage, will be slowed - giving the perception that it is the internet connection that is being compromised.

I'd run a broadband speed test during encoding to see if there is any real speed difference. I just ran such a test and my speeds are identical, with or without encoding going on.

Asus P6X58D Premium * Core i7 950 * 24GB RAM * nVidia Quadro 4000 * Windows 7 Premium 64bit * System Drive - WD Caviar Black 500GB * 2nd Drive(Pagefile, Previews) - WD Velociraptor 10K drive 600GB * Media Drive - 2TB RAID0 (4 - WD Caviar Black 500GB drive) * Matrox MX02 Mini * Adobe CC
-------------------------------------------
"98% of all computer issues can be solved by simply pressing 'F1'."
Steve Brame
creative illusions Productions


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Jeff Pulera
Re: rendering slowing internet connection
on Mar 17, 2014 at 5:42:12 pm

Hi Richard,

Writing to a network drive perhaps? Otherwise, I don't know, have never noticed this phenomenon myself.

Thanks

Jeff Pulera
Safe Harbor Computers


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Tim Kolb
Re: rendering slowing internet connection
on Mar 17, 2014 at 9:23:27 pm

I'd echo Steve's comments.

When your CPU is being used as heavily as Adobe's encoding process (it uses pretty much every CPU thread it can acquire), everything else the computer is doing will be affected...

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


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Richard Angle
Re: rendering slowing internet connection
on Mar 18, 2014 at 12:49:59 am

But I truly don't get the connection between the two. To me, it seems that internet connection speed should remain constant even if I am taxing my CPU at the same time. Think of it this way. A fast internet connection is available regardless of the computer's CPU computing potential. If I were to have a much older model computer on a 56k modem, I'd suspect this performance. But put the same old box on a modern broadband connection and it should fly as far as general web surfing. No? I'm not talking about using graphics heavy programs. And even if I was, what does graphics processing have to do with internet connection speeds? Simply "surfing" the web slows to unimaginable speeds while encoding in both Premiere and Media Encoder and it's like night and day and every single time. What does CPU potential have to do with the potential of the internet connection speed? Seems to me that they should not affect each other. They never interfere with each other while using other applications. They certainly never did in my old FCP days. Any help in understanding this on a truly technical level is very much appreciated.


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Tim Kolb
Re: rendering slowing internet connection
on Mar 18, 2014 at 12:59:25 am

FCP7 was a 32 bit program that probably didn't bite down as hard on your CPU as 64 bit PPro/ME does when encoding.

What you're seeing isn't the speed of the connection...you're seeing the CPU trying to simply process and load the pages. Everything on your computer uses the CPU...everything. If some program is dominating the CPU resources, every other process on the machine will slow, web browsers, anti-virus, media players, the operating system itself...it all uses the CPU.

The data can come in as fast as you like...if you can't process it, it will seem less reponsive. I'm guessing that if you look at all the other things I mentioned, you'll find that they slow down too.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


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Richard Angle
Re: rendering slowing internet connection
on Mar 18, 2014 at 3:36:27 am

Thank you, Tim, for your response and explanation. However, if this is the issue, shouldn't dedicating more memory to the Adobe global application make a significant difference? I don't necessarily mind slowing down the background rendering in most cases. Could you suggest any work-around? I have a multi-purpose machine. Last I checked. computers are pretty darned good at multitasking these days. I'm telling you, It's either Adobe on or Adobe off in this situation.

Thanks, man.


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Tim Kolb
Re: rendering slowing internet connection
on Mar 18, 2014 at 12:58:35 pm

Unfortunately you have a professional application running on your multi-purpose machine...and most of us want encoding to be as fast as possible so we can get the file to our client (who always needs everything yesterday) and get on to other things.

Adobe's approach is to grab all the CPU it can get it's hands on and use it to encode faster. It's one of the more efficient applications that exists in this sense.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


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Steve Brame
Re: rendering slowing internet connection
on Mar 18, 2014 at 11:47:01 am

Internet usage is not a CPU independent activity. It's not as if there is a separate pipeline between the internet connection and your graphics card. All internet usage goes through the CPU before it makes it to your screen. Therefore, even if your internet speed is remaining the same while encoding, the CPU during the encoding process is creating a bottleneck, slowing all processes down.

Asus P6X58D Premium * Core i7 950 * 24GB RAM * nVidia Quadro 4000 * Windows 7 Premium 64bit * System Drive - WD Caviar Black 500GB * 2nd Drive(Pagefile, Previews) - WD Velociraptor 10K drive 600GB * Media Drive - 2TB RAID0 (4 - WD Caviar Black 500GB drive) * Matrox MX02 Mini * Adobe CC
-------------------------------------------
"98% of all computer issues can be solved by simply pressing 'F1'."
Steve Brame
creative illusions Productions


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Chris Robinson
Re: rendering slowing internet connection
on Mar 18, 2014 at 1:57:59 pm

Hey Jeff.

I have having issues similar to the OP but over network drives. We have a high powered video editing NAS (Isilon). Scratch disks are currently stored with the project on the network drive. Lately whenever we render a project, it sporadically disconnects us from the internet. Its extremely weird.

I can ping http://www.google.com and get replies constantly...and then render a project in Premiere CS6 and sometimes (sometimes it works) it disconnects me from our network completely. No pings. No websites. NO network drive. Nothing. I get an alert on my Mac that the share has been disconnected and the ping attempts time out.

At this point Premiere freezes at rendering a frame.

Most of the time if I just sit there, it will automatically reconnect and continue rendering where it left off with no problems. There is no specific time frame on when and if internet will be restored but restarting the computer always brings back the internet.

This isn't happening on just one computer, but 4 of my Edit Suites .

If I point the scratch disks to the local desktop, the render works fine. However, there are times where different editors will edit different pieces of a project. We need that scratch disk to be locally available to all the editors.


Could you explain your issues with network drives and scratch disks?


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Tim Kolb
Re: rendering slowing internet connection
on Mar 18, 2014 at 3:40:21 pm

It sounds like the loss of internet is simply a symptom of your whole network going offline sporadically.

Does it happen more often when rendering using assets that are in use on one or more of the other workstations?

What sort of throughput are you designed for...vs what kind of throughput are you expecting?

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


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Chris Robinson
Re: rendering slowing internet connection
on Mar 18, 2014 at 3:52:46 pm

Hey . thanks for your response!


The network only disconnects when rendering a project file that is located on the NAS. And randomly.

It is only the computer that is doing the rendering. I can go to another one of my edit stations and the internet works. It only happens when rendering and on that workstation that is currently editing that project file. Other computers are able to access the NAS while the one station is disconnected from the network.

As far as throughput, I am not 100% sure. We have aggregated bandwidth of atleast 10GB/s. The workstations have network cables working in tandem (bonded) to provide 2GB/s speed on each workstation.

Also note that normal editing does not effect performance. Everything is fast and runs smoothly until you render. If you render with the scratch disks on the local disk then it works but defeats our purpose.

Again thanks for your help. Any advice or tips or anything is GREATLY appreciated.


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Tim Kolb
Re: rendering slowing internet connection
on Mar 18, 2014 at 4:22:23 pm

Unless you've checked the box to "Use Previews" as an encoding source, the location of the scratch disk shouldn't really affect this process outside of using conformed audio perhaps, but that would be in the location targeted for cache...

Are your encoded output files also targeted back at the NAS?

One thing to keep in mind...editing doesn't have the hard, constant, simultaneous read/write duplexing going on that encoding does...it's more read-heavy. If all the files need to be read from the NAS, and also the finished file is being written to that same device, the network connection may easily be max out in both directions...the reads from the disk actually slowing down the writes to the same disk and vice versa.

On a bigger disk unit, I don't know if it would be a problem, but you might be uber-loading your NAS depending on what sort of data you're using.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


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Chris Robinson
Re: rendering slowing internet connection
on Mar 18, 2014 at 4:46:58 pm

Thanks for your quick response again.

When exporting video to the same NAS device, we noticed that it does disconnect from the network more often than not. When exported to the Deskop of the local hard disk, all seems to goes well.

So it would appear that your theory would prove correct, however I am not sure how that explains the disconnects when using the "Render Work Area" function while working in the project ... (Not exporting just rendering work area)


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Tim Kolb
Re: rendering slowing internet connection
on Mar 18, 2014 at 5:18:39 pm

If your scratch disk locations are on the NAS...that's where you're rendering to...

A preview render is mechanically the same process if your scratch disk destination device is the same as your encode/export target device would be.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


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Richard Angle
Re: rendering slowing internet connection
on Mar 18, 2014 at 8:43:59 pm

Thanks all for your responses. I just wasn't aware that ones internet connection performance was so dependent on the CPU. Glad to know it isn't an issue with the software or my hardware but it just is what it is. Thanks everybody and have a great day!


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Chris Robinson
Re: rendering slowing internet connection
on Mar 19, 2014 at 12:03:51 pm

I can't confirm that we are uber loading it.I will check when I can get more administrative access to that device.

This is the same device used to create and produce the movie Avatar so I don't know how we can be over utilizing it on one render. Again, I will check. Thanks for your time.

I opened up my Network speed statistics when rendering. When it works fine it reaches aruond 20MB/s of transfer strictly from premiere. When it freezes and loses internet connection the SEND and RECEIVE packet speed drops to about 1-4 kb/s .

It is acting like it doesn't even want to attempt to SEND packets.


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Tim Kolb
Re: rendering slowing internet connection
on Mar 19, 2014 at 2:43:42 pm

[Chris Robinson] "This is the same device used to create and produce the movie Avatar so I don't know how we can be over utilizing it on one render. Again, I will check. Thanks for your time. "

Yeah...I am...NOT...a networking expert in any way, so the last thing I want to imply is that some component in your system is somehow inappropriate, under-spec, malfunctioning...or even unpleasant to look at.

:-) ...because I don't know.

All I'm offering is the process that Premiere Pro is going through when these functions are happening to hopefully help you troubleshoot.

Keep in mind that targeting the preview video and audio render files to a local disk may not be the worst way to at least deal with the issue in the short-term to keep things working...

Good luck with it.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


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