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OMF workflow for nested sequences. Has anyone found an automated way?

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Sean Scarfo
OMF workflow for nested sequences. Has anyone found an automated way?
on Feb 11, 2014 at 5:40:44 pm

I'm an adobe premiere / audition fan, however I'm a Pro Tools sound editor. I've yet to find an easy or automated way to send the discrete audio tracks from the nested sequences to an OMF.

Yes, I know how to export an omf from the main sequence. Yes, I 'can' go into each sequence and copy / paste the entire audio structure that into a duplicated main sequence, however I find the re-syncing/aligning (Especially since there's no mid sequence 2 pop) a pita.

As you can imagine, as a sound editor, I work with a lot of premiere editors who use nested sequences... and rarely do they want to do all that leg work 'just' to send me a proper OMF. Heaven forbid I mentioned about working in a non-nested sequence as well.

I'd even settle for an easy way to walk someone through unesting a sequence on a main timeline.


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Shane Ross
Re: OMF workflow for nested sequences. Has anyone found an automated way?
on Feb 11, 2014 at 5:47:09 pm

[Sean Scarfo] "I work with a lot of premiere editors who use nested sequences... and rarely do they want to do all that leg work 'just' to send me a proper OMF."

Sorry, but they have to. You must insist that they do not send nested sequence audio. You can't work with it....plain and simple. All you need to say is, "Sorry, but I cannot properly mix audio that has been nested. You need to send discreet audio tracks and clips." Then it is on them...because it really IS on them. My post supervisor chews out editors who nest. If there is no post super, then the producer will. Talk to the producer and tell them you can't do what is required as long as it is nested and have them whip the editors into line.

They must be broken of this bad BAD habit. Like it all they want, it causes issues with other parts of the post chain...they need to refrain from doing it, or fix it.

[Sean Scarfo] " Heaven forbid I mentioned about working in a non-nested sequence as well."

IF the editors give you guff, go to the producers. Explain how you cannot do your job if the sequences are nested. Period.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Walter Soyka
Re: OMF workflow for nested sequences. Has anyone found an automated way?
on Feb 11, 2014 at 5:53:00 pm
Last Edited By Walter Soyka on Feb 11, 2014 at 5:59:00 pm

[Sean Scarfo] "I'd even settle for an easy way to walk someone through unesting a sequence on a main timeline."

Premiere Pro CC has a feature for sequence-to-sequence editing [link] which edits the clips from inside the source sequence into the timeline rather than a nested sequence.

With this, you should be able to match frame from the nested sequence, loading it in the source monitor, then overwrite back into the timeline.

(edit: fixed broken link)

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Walter Soyka
Re: OMF workflow for nested sequences. Has anyone found an automated way?
on Feb 11, 2014 at 6:15:24 pm

Also, to Shane's point, you should send the above link to the editorial staff.

Editing from selects sequences can be really useful, but clicking that one little switch before you do so will make the whole workflow so much smoother.

If you're on CS6, I consider this one of the upgrade-worthy "little" features.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Sean Scarfo
Re: OMF workflow for nested sequences. Has anyone found an automated way?
on Feb 11, 2014 at 6:53:44 pm

Yea, I have CC, but not every premiere editor has it.

That link was pretty cool. Would def save me some time if I was doing the edit.

I just can't believe in 2014, literally over 20 years after premiere has been around... the ability to 'un-nest' on the fly or export EDL/OMF with nested sequences (and have the edl and OMF point to the correct corresponding clips) isn't available yet.

It's probably been the number 1 gripe of mine ever since I've owned a license for premiere.


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Walter Soyka
Re: OMF workflow for nested sequences. Has anyone found an automated way?
on Feb 11, 2014 at 7:06:20 pm

[Sean Scarfo] "I just can't believe in 2014, literally over 20 years after premiere has been around... the ability to 'un-nest' on the fly or export EDL/OMF with nested sequences (and have the edl and OMF point to the correct corresponding clips) isn't available yet.
"


Yeah, I know what you mean.

I can see that this is a non-trivial problem -- how do you automatically handle track patching when audio layouts differ, how do you handle potential clip collisions, how do you handle effects applied to the nest, etc. -- but something here would be better than nothing!

May I suggest filing a feature request [link]?

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Shane Ross
Re: OMF workflow for nested sequences. Has anyone found an automated way?
on Feb 11, 2014 at 7:07:55 pm

Easy fix...stop the editors from doing this in the first place. They need to learn how to do things right.

In my not-so-humble and grumpy opinion.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Sean Scarfo
Re: OMF workflow for nested sequences. Has anyone found an automated way?
on Feb 11, 2014 at 8:39:52 pm

Hi Shane, I'd love to 'yell' at them... however typically my business / work involves being contracted 'last' in the project as sound editing and cleanup is way too common an after thought. Also, telling editors to modify their workflow heavily to accommodate me (the sound editor) is rarely a good thing.

I'd even pay for a plugin at this point.


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Shane Ross
Re: OMF workflow for nested sequences. Has anyone found an automated way?
on Feb 11, 2014 at 8:47:03 pm

All roads lead to post. Camera people need to accommodate our needs...although true, there are times they don't. But when I start editing, I always work with the finish in mind...the online and the audio mix. Every place I work has rules on what you can and cannot do, in order to make online and mix go smoothly. People who DO NOT take audio and online into account are lazy good-for-nothing editors who have no business editing professionally.

Sure, audio might be the last link in the chain, but it is a very important one, and working in a way that enables you to do your job is only smart. And YES...editors MUST modify their workflow and work habits if they intend on working in a post production chain like this. If they are all-in-one people...they can do what suits them. But if they are a link in the chain, they need to work in a way that makes things go smoothly.

And it's not your job to whip them into shape...you can tell them your needs, and it's the job of the post super or producer to do that. If you tell them "nested sequences cause issues in the mix, I cannot properly mix with nested material," then they need to do what is needed to fix that. It's on them. If they don't, then you can only do so much.

I'm used to working with stubborn editors who do things their way and refuse to change. After receiving a bill for all the fixing I had to do in order to make things work...or me even mentioning how much it would cost for me to fix the mess I was given...the producer gets the editors to fix it, and do it right in the future.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Romina Rey
Re: OMF workflow for nested sequences. Has anyone found an automated way?
on Aug 18, 2015 at 12:53:19 am

Hi Shane,

Just started working on Premiere and encountered this problem when trying to export for Sound Mixer.
Is there an alternative method to achieve multi-cam editing with three different audio tracks other than nesting?

Don't want to start off using bad habits ;)

Thanks!
Romina


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Shane Ross
Re: OMF workflow for nested sequences. Has anyone found an automated way?
on Aug 18, 2015 at 1:11:45 am

Make multiclips. I'm not entirely sure how Premiere does it, but in Avid you group all of your audio with all of your video, and you have a multiclip with one video track, that you can switch angles, and then multiple audio tracks...from 2-whatever. I work with generally 6-10 tracks of audio. And then put ALL audio tracks on the timeline.

If you synch up the groups via a separate timeline...then don't put that in the SOURCE window...open it up and then copy and paste the sections you want.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Sean Scarfo
Re: OMF workflow for nested sequences. Has anyone found an automated way?
on Feb 11, 2014 at 8:35:45 pm

Yep, already submitted the feature request. IMO, this would make life so much easier for Premiere editors that collaborate with sound editors.


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Chris Borjis
Re: OMF workflow for nested sequences. Has anyone found an automated way?
on Feb 12, 2014 at 1:31:17 am

I feel your pain on this and echo what Shane and Walter said.

Not sure this would help, but I think I was able to accomplish a proper omf
from a nested (multicam) cs6 sequence once, by doing a "send to audition" from within premiere, then once it
finished conforming in audition, export the omf from there.

might be an option for your cs6 projects from editors.



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Sean Scarfo
Re: OMF workflow for nested sequences. Has anyone found an automated way?
on Feb 14, 2014 at 6:40:19 pm

Hey Everyone,

looks like a 'found' a way to make it work.

While sending to audition directly 'Doesn't work' as for some reason it only see's the top most audio level, if I manually export a FCP XML and then import it into audition, it DOES see all the audio components. Once I save the Audition session I can then export OMF.

Also, from what a friend of mine has tested is exporting the FCP XML and sending into Davanci and then exporting AAF from there.

Hope this helps someone!


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Garnet Campbell
Re: OMF workflow for nested sequences. Has anyone found an automated way?
on Oct 21, 2014 at 2:52:52 am

Hey this is great news, I'm going to give it a shot. I have a feature with 113 nested sequences.


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Jessica Lawheed
Re: OMF workflow for nested sequences. Has anyone found an automated way?
on Jan 10, 2019 at 10:21:44 pm

OH MY GAWD thank you for this. You have saved me SO much time.


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David Harris
Re: OMF workflow for nested sequences. Has anyone found an automated way?
on Apr 10, 2014 at 10:32:02 pm

I've been dealing with this problem on a 30 minute long project with tons of multi-cam, 6-channel audio nested sequences. I was surprised to find that my OMF's opened perfectly in Protools if I selected the "encapsulate audio" option with short handles (to keep the OMF file size sub 2GB). Based on this, my suggested work around would be - use timecode to divvy up your sequences into sections that fit below the 2GB limit - and then stitch them back together in Protools.

Far from ideal, but faster than conforming un-nested footage back to the nested edits.


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