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Pr & ProRes transcoding. pros and cons?

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Al Bergstein
Pr & ProRes transcoding. pros and cons?
on Mar 20, 2013 at 2:01:05 pm

So I left FCP about a year or so ago. Have enjoyed using Pr with no transcoding. I am working on a rather large project with both Canon mxf files and Canon 5D mov files. My project size is over 30MBs and growing. The final product is going to be a 1hour video project, and at the rate I'm going is going to be a 60MB project file (I've shot over 500GBs of footage so far and climbing). While all is going along pretty well, I've encountered a bit of problems lately, not clear where they are coming from, and wondering whether things would be better if I simply transcoded the mov to mxf or even to Pro Res (platform is whatever I want to use, but currently is Windows 7). To be clear, my sequences are all mxf based, so once the mov files are in the timeline, they usually are green and the mxf are black (meaning normal to the timeline).

Are any of you taking the time to transcode to prores and if so, why? And also, is it worth the effort? While it's a great marketing story to not transcode, and obviously is a time consuming bit of work, would it help a project of this size with these two formats?

Thanks in advance.

Al


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Michael Hendrix
Re: Pr & ProRes transcoding. pros and cons?
on Mar 20, 2013 at 2:47:01 pm

For the longest time, I have believed systems work better when all is conformed and synced and living in perfect harmony. Maybe that thought process started back in my Avid days and seeing how that system was rock solid, then they brought AMA in and things got shady.

Recently, shooting on the 5D, I always felt that I lost something in the transcode in Final Cut. That codec is already a compressed codec so the footage, in my mind, just went a notch softer.

Since my change to Premiere, my end product looks better, in my opinion, and I contribute that to the non-transcoding/non-resolution change.

So, to answer your question somewhat, are the problems you are having a game changer? Do you think the quality of your output is better and is that a trade-off you are willing to make?



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Al Bergstein
Re: Pr & ProRes transcoding. pros and cons?
on Mar 20, 2013 at 3:16:12 pm

That's great info Michael. I've been happy with my footage from the 5D mkiii, especially when it's the only footage on the timeline. I add a bit of sharpening, and it really is beautiful. My only concern was whether others were finding the transcode added anything to stability, quality, etc. Seems as if you are saying that just the opposite has been your experience. So for now, I'll keep on keeping on. Maybe after this project I'll do a bit of experimentation, but I have my hands full for now.

Al


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Tom Daigon
Re: Pr & ProRes transcoding. pros and cons?
on Mar 20, 2013 at 3:57:09 pm

I would sum things up this way, if your machine can handle the codecs of your media with no issues, then dont transcode.

If your computer has problems dropping frames or other issues, , first determine the cause. The Mercury Playback Engine thrives on power for the CPU / Ram amount / CUDA from the GPU and I/O speed of media accessed off your raid / hard drive.

Some systems might not do as well as others if some of these are old or lacking. Transcoding might be a consideration in that case.

Tom Daigon
PrP / After Effects Editor
http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com





(Best viewed at 1080P and full screen)
HP Z820 Dual 2687
64GB ram
Dulce DQg2 16TB raid


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Chris Borjis
Re: Pr & ProRes transcoding. pros and cons?
on Mar 20, 2013 at 10:03:32 pm

I've enjoyed throwing in everything INCLUDING the kitchen sink into the sequences
without any issues at all.

I see no reason to transcode personally.



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Tom Daigon
Re: Pr & ProRes transcoding. pros and cons?
on Mar 20, 2013 at 10:07:37 pm

As I said, if your machine can handle native clips, great. But if your machine cant. find out why,fix it or transcode.

Tom Daigon
PrP / After Effects Editor
http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com





(Best viewed at 1080P and full screen)
HP Z820 Dual 2687
64GB ram
Dulce DQg2 16TB raid


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ninetto makavejev
Re: Pr & ProRes transcoding. pros and cons?
on Mar 21, 2013 at 6:28:14 pm

You didn't really describe what "problems" you are running into, but recently on a long P2 (mxf) project that began acting strange, esp. on exports, the best fountain-of-youth cure I discovered was clearing the MEDIA CACHE in the preferences.
Violá, everything was perfect again.
Certainly easier than tanscoding 500 hrs of material...

good luck, n.m.


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Tom Daigon
Re: Pr & ProRes transcoding. pros and cons?
on Mar 21, 2013 at 6:32:16 pm

In addition, since you are on a Mac you can...

1. Delete PrP Prefs.
2 Repair Permissions.
3. As ninetto said, delete media cache files.
4. Delete preview files

Make sure PrP is closed when you do steps 3 & 4.

Tom Daigon
PrP / After Effects Editor
http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com





(Best viewed at 1080P and full screen)
HP Z820 Dual 2687
64GB ram
Dulce DQg2 16TB raid


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Ryan Patch
Re: Pr & ProRes transcoding. pros and cons?
on Mar 21, 2013 at 8:28:05 pm

I agree - no need to transcode unless your machine needs it to play back. I have not found mixed timelines to be any less stable than single-codec timelines.

I work with very large documentary style projects, often with upwards of 2tb of footage in them. My project files are usually in the 100 - 400 mb range. It gets to be a pain, yes, but I don't think it has anything to do with the codec of the material.

A note: a project file size is much more influenced by the number of cuts and clips in your timelines, rather than the number of clips in a project. Premiere does get a little wonky with large project files, and it makes me understand the wisdom of the avid process (only open the bins you need, when you need them).

You might try increasing RAM (at least 16gb) or saving onto a faster drive for projects (I use a 10k RAID 0 drive, mainly because I'm too cheap to buy an SSD).

Ryan


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Tim Kolb
Re: Pr & ProRes transcoding. pros and cons?
on Mar 21, 2013 at 11:14:05 pm

[Tom Daigon] "3. As ninetto said, delete media cache files.
4. Delete preview files

Make sure PrP is closed when you do steps 3 & 4."


I think he meant "Clean" the Media cache...in preferences. Obviously you'll need the application open to do that...

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


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Tom Daigon
Re: Pr & ProRes transcoding. pros and cons?
on Mar 21, 2013 at 11:34:14 pm

No Tim, I have found better results when I delete the Media Cache and Preview files when PrP is closed.Then let it generate what it needs on boot up. Of course that means you have to find them on the system, open each folder then delete all the files within.

Tom Daigon
PrP / After Effects Editor
http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com





(Best viewed at 1080P and full screen)
HP Z820 Dual 2687
64GB ram
Dulce DQg2 16TB raid


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Tim Kolb
Re: Pr & ProRes transcoding. pros and cons?
on Mar 21, 2013 at 11:44:57 pm

I have found that cleaning the cache works pretty well...maybe there are specific circumstances that change that.

But more importantly I was clarifying that what Ninetto was saying was not what you were saying in item 3...two different things.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


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