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Editing progressive footage on an interlaced timeline non-destructively

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Myles Conti
Editing progressive footage on an interlaced timeline non-destructively
on Mar 18, 2013 at 6:07:11 am

Hi,
I've been editing in PP for a while now, having moved from FCP7, but still have a few questions regarding some of the basic fundamentals of how premiere pro works.

I've got an ageing mac pro, which has a blackmagic HD SDI card attached - that I have going into a blackmagic SDI to HDMI converter, so as I can monitor on a client LCD TV. I can only monitor this way, when I set up my sequence as an interlaced timeline - I'm in Australia so the most useful setting for me is 1080 50i. The thing is, everything I shoot is progressive, and most projects that I deliver these days are progressive as well.

As my footage is mostly 1080 25p - it seems to display fine on both my mac, and external LCD when viewed on a 1080 50i timeline - with the exception of when the image is paused it then looks interlaced on the external LCD.

My question is - if I edit on an interlaced timeline, but then want to export a progressive clip (25p) can I do this from the 50i timeline (will it just talk to the source files, and work the same as if edited on a progressive timeline) - or is it better for me to copy all my clips from the 50i timeline, and paste them into a 25p timeline before exporting. In an ideal world I'd be able to monitor externally from a 25p timeline - but as this is not the case, and I'd like to continue to use my external monitor - I'd love to know the best way of doing this.

Thanks

Myles Conti
Director/Editor
contibrosfilms.com


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ninetto makavejev
Re: Editing progressive footage on an interlaced timeline non-destructively
on Mar 18, 2013 at 11:13:31 am

You may have seen/followed a discussion about this problem over at the Blackmagic forum, over the last year or two. Just recently, this week, I posted over there regarding this annoying 25p vs 50i problem with older (not-really-very old) Blackmagic cards. I had heard that with CS6 this problem had been solved. Except as far as I can tell, it hasn't.

It might help to read those posts, if you don't know them. The danger of exporting from a 50i timeline that uses 25p material is that Premiere will try to deinterlace the progressive source footage if exporting to a progessive format. You can see this in AME in the summary of SOURCE and TARGET formats. Whether these two operations just cancel each other out(25p->50i, 50i->25p ) is unclear, one user using this work-around saw double-deinterlacing artifacts when exporting to progressive formats (24p blu-ray).

The work-around for me and other users at the Blackmagic forum was as you describe: edit in 50i and then copy/paste to 25p timeline, to make sure Premiere interprets the footage correctly.

Not very pretty, but the only way I know for now. I would be happy to hear someone who has solved this issue, but it seems like Premiere/Blackmagic have given up on hardware that is more than 2-3 years old.


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Myles Conti
Re: Editing progressive footage on an interlaced timeline non-destructively
on Mar 18, 2013 at 12:33:12 pm

Hi Ninetto,

Thanks for your post. I've been googling the subject, but hadn't come across the black magic forums that you talk about, I will be sure to have a look.

So by what your saying, would I be right in assuming that newer blackmagic, and presumably kona cards can display 1080p from premiere with no problems? Not that I want to get a new card, particularly, like many, as I'm waiting to see what the future of the Mac Pro will be.

If I find anything else out on the subject I'll be sure to post on this thread - otherwise, I will continue to edit on 1 timeline, and copy and paste to another prior to export.

If this is something that blackmagic can resolve (no pun intended) that'd be great!

Myles Conti
Director/Editor
contibrosfilms.com


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ninetto makavejev
Re: Editing progressive footage on an interlaced timeline non-destructively
on Mar 18, 2013 at 3:05:37 pm

Hi Myles, here is the thread from the weekend at the BMD forum at CC:
http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/124/883604#883634

But if you specifically search that forum you will come up with a dozen posts in the past two years relating to this problem. None of them really good news, I'm afraid.

Funny about that "resolve" remark. In fact at least resolve HAS resolved this problem, my Decklink HD Extreme card will output 25p to an Eizo monitor! The trouble is "limited" to Decklink and PP.

regards,
ninetto


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Myles Conti
Re: Editing progressive footage on an interlaced timeline non-destructively
on Mar 18, 2013 at 10:18:31 pm

Hi Ninetto,
I read your other thread and have looked at a bunch of threads over on the blackmagic forum.

In your last post you mention:

"On another thread, someone had luck downgrading the driver to facilitate playback, I will try that when I finish current project."

Did you ever get a chance to test this? If not - what thread did you find it on, I may give it a go.

Thanks,

Myles.

Myles Conti
Director/Editor
contibrosfilms.com


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ninetto makavejev
Re: Editing progressive footage on an interlaced timeline non-destructively
on Mar 18, 2013 at 11:18:21 pm

Hi. It was this guy:
http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/124/883576#883629

but he had an BM Intensity Pro, not Decklink.

I am in the middle of a project and haven't the chance/time to fiddle with drivers to see if it helps at all with CS6 and Decklink. Will report back, at the end of the week... I am willing to try anything! Good luck to you too... n.m.


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Myles Conti
Re: Editing progressive footage on an interlaced timeline non-destructively
on Mar 18, 2013 at 11:50:04 pm

Hi Ninetto,

Ok - I gave the driver a shot - but same result. I have opted to go back to latest driver 9.7.

In further searches I did come across this post - it seems our cards hardware is the problem:

http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/124/881753

What would be good is if Adobe or Blackmagic allowed for 25PsF(1080i) output in both After Effects and Premiere Pro. This is what Resolve does - that allows you to see what appears to be a progressive output. I tested Resolve setup as 25p - and it also didn't work, so I'm satisfied that the hardware is part of the problem, but the solution seems to me to be with a 25PsF(1080i) output.

Myles Conti
Director/Editor
contibrosfilms.com


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