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How can I edit and export 48fps footage in Premiere CS4

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Noland Orozaco
How can I edit and export 48fps footage in Premiere CS4
on Feb 5, 2013 at 1:26:42 am

I have some 48FPS footage and I need to edit then export it. Unfortunately sequences can't be made at 48fps, the closest I can get is 30 or 50. That simply won't do, it must be 48FPS. What can I do to make Premiere CS4 take it?


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Shane Ross
Re: How can I edit and export 48fps footage in Premiere CS4
on Feb 5, 2013 at 1:54:54 am

Question I have is...what delivery format accepts 48fps? Not BluRay...not DVD...not TV...not the web. Thus far the only delivery method that does 48fps is theatrical projection for THE HOBBIT.

So what's your reasoning for wanting to work and delivery 48fps?

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Noland Orozaco
Re: How can I edit and export 48fps footage in Premiere CS4
on Feb 5, 2013 at 5:04:19 am

The footage was shot using the phantom. It will be displayed using a projector with 48fps capabilities.


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Peter Berthet
Re: How can I edit and export 48fps footage in Premiere CS4
on Feb 5, 2013 at 2:46:38 am

you could do it in after effects

- Pete


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John-Michael Seng-Wheeler
Re: How can I edit and export 48fps footage in Premiere CS4
on Feb 5, 2013 at 3:30:07 am

It's quite simple in CS6, though be prepared for a few quirks. (Timecode doesn't work at all for example.)

Just create a sequence and drop a 48fps clip into it. Premiere will ask if you want to change the sequence settings to match, and bingo, a 48Fps sequence.

If, like me, your footage was shot at 48fps but the camera doesn't support 48 as a project timebase (resulting in shots that naturally play back in slo-mo, just interpret the footage as 48fps first before dropping it in the empty sequence.

Rending will have to be done with AfterEffects as Premiere doesn't support rendering to 48fps.

Just import the Premiere Pro project into AfterEffects and then add the sequence to the render queue.

JM


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Noland Orozaco
Re: How can I edit and export 48fps footage in Premiere CS4
on Feb 5, 2013 at 5:06:17 am

I need the final product to be a quicktime file. After Effects will let me export in quicktime, but the file is huge and won't play smoothly on a computer monitor. If AE is the only way to go, how can I get AE to compress quicktime files in order to make them viewable?


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Tero Ahlfors
Re: How can I edit and export 48fps footage in Premiere CS4
on Feb 5, 2013 at 5:14:11 am

[Noland Orozaco] " After Effects will let me export in quicktime, but the file is huge and won't play smoothly on a computer monitor."

The file is as huge as the format you're rendering it to. What are the delivery specs for your final output?


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Ivan M. Semeniuk
Re: How can I edit and export 48fps footage in Premiere CS4
on Feb 5, 2013 at 5:28:35 am

Which codec(s) did you use? Try exporting QuickTime H.264 with a key frame every 1 frame. QT will have an easier time playing the movie if it is encoded with all I-frames.


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John-Michael Seng-Wheeler
Re: How can I edit and export 48fps footage in Premiere CS4
on Feb 5, 2013 at 5:45:40 am

[Noland Orozaco] "I need the final product to be a quicktime file"

Unfortunately that's about as descriptive as saying "I need a package delivered to New York City".

Quicktime is a container format, which can hold many codecs which often have many levels of compression.

That said, the reason that the files are so large and won't play is probably because AE defaults to Animation as the codec, which is lossless and when applied to video results in files which are practically uncompressed. Understandably, these files do not play well.

H.264 or ProRes (or DNxHD) are probably your best bet but the choice depends on what you're delivering to. You should ask your client/whomever is being given this file what codec they want. If all they say is "Quicktime" then clearly they don't know all that much about codecs, in which case you should tell us what this file is being used for and then we can advise you on codecs and the settings for said codecs.

JM


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Noland Orozaco
Re: How can I edit and export 48fps footage in Premiere CS4
on Feb 7, 2013 at 10:51:01 pm

I should have been more clear. The client wants H.264 quicktime files at 48fps 1080p. In AE I was inadvertently using Animation codec quicktime files leading to uncompressed/unplayable files.
Unfortunately, After Effects can only export H.264 in 30 or 50 frames as well. I'm attaching a screenshot so you can see the menu. Is there any way to make premiere or ae render out quicktime h.264 at 48fps at 1080p.


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Peter Berthet
Re: How can I edit and export 48fps footage in Premiere CS4
on Feb 8, 2013 at 12:51:17 am

I just did a few tests and the only thing i could get to render correctly at 48fps was a quicktime animation file.

Everything else hated it.

- Pete


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Noland Orozaco
Re: How can I edit and export 48fps footage in Premiere CS4
on Feb 8, 2013 at 1:16:48 am

When I use animation codec the filesizes are huge, at 1080p not even a high end computer could run it smoothly. I'm really confounded here, any other ideas?


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Peter Berthet
Re: How can I edit and export 48fps footage in Premiere CS4
on Feb 8, 2013 at 1:32:34 am

thats kinda what you're gonna find using a non-standard format

i can play animation quicktimes from my system here coming off a 2xsata drive RAID.

is there a reason your client requires 48fps ?
what will be the means of display for the final product ?

- Pete


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Noland Orozaco
Re: How can I edit and export 48fps footage in Premiere CS4
on Feb 8, 2013 at 2:45:28 am

The project is a comparison between motion blur at different framerates. It's somewhat of a scientific endeavor more than a movie. It has to be exactly 48fps or the experiment is void. I want to be able to view the programs on a computer, and it will eventually be projected. I don't have the details about the projector, but I'm assured it takes h.264 quicktime files at any fps.


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Peter Berthet
Re: How can I edit and export 48fps footage in Premiere CS4
on Feb 8, 2013 at 3:15:16 am

ok now i understand what youre doing
you should be able to test it to a broadcast monitor IF your hardware supports it, and i dont know of any that does currently

i also dont believe that h264 supports 48fps

like i mentioned earlier, i tried rendering a few different formats at 48fps and they all got really confused when i tried to play them back

.wmv was actually pretty funny .. it kept skipping forward every 10 frames or so ^.^

- Pete


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John-Michael Seng-Wheeler
Re: How can I edit and export 48fps footage in Premiere CS4
on Feb 8, 2013 at 2:31:12 am

What program is that screen shot from? I have no trouble making H.264s (ether in Quicktime or an MP4) in any frame rate in AE CS6...

JM


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Noland Orozaco
Re: How can I edit and export 48fps footage in Premiere CS4
on Feb 8, 2013 at 2:42:40 am

AE, but I only have cs4 :(


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John-Michael Seng-Wheeler
Re: How can I edit and export 48fps footage in Premiere CS4
on Feb 8, 2013 at 2:51:12 am

Ah, well, then that isn't going to work. I did preface my original post by mentioning I was working in CS6.

CS6 can make H.264s in any frame rate you want... To test it I made one just now at 46.98fps, not standard in the slightest.

You can still edit this project with your current software, (though I have no way to test if Premiere CS4 will edit 48fps, you might have to do it all in AE or in Premiere at 24fps) and then download the trial of CS6 to do the render. Not that I like the idea of using a trial version for a paying project, but in this case if you can't afford to upgrade you're kinda stuck with using the trial.

JM


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Peter Berthet
Re: How can I edit and export 48fps footage in Premiere CS4
on Feb 8, 2013 at 3:16:07 am

howd you do that ?

i was trying to do it earlier and it locked me into standard frame rates

- Pete


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John-Michael Seng-Wheeler
Re: How can I edit and export 48fps footage in Premiere CS4
on Feb 8, 2013 at 3:19:19 am

Um... I added the comp to the render queue, clicked on the output module and changed the codec to H.264, render and done. This is on a Mac, perhaps that makes a diference.

In the output module settings there isn't actually anything that sets the frame rate at all, it's set in the render settings.

JM


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Peter Berthet
Re: How can I edit and export 48fps footage in Premiere CS4
on Feb 8, 2013 at 5:52:25 am

hrmm weird
im on a pc and it only had standard framerates as my options ..
ill have to test this mac business :)

- Pete


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John-Michael Seng-Wheeler
Re: How can I edit and export 48fps footage in Premiere CS4
on Feb 8, 2013 at 6:04:31 am

Don't forget I'm on CS6.
Tested on a PC. The options are exactly the same.


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Peter Berthet
Re: How can I edit and export 48fps footage in Premiere CS4
on Feb 8, 2013 at 7:09:29 am

im on CS6 v6.03
when i change the format to H264 i get the following message
"Settings Mismatch"
"Warning: Frame rate of output file will be adjusted from 48 to 50 fps to meet format constraints. Audio may not synchronize."

HOWEVER.
Rendering as a Quicktime H264 allows rendering to 48fps!

Now we know :) ... i learned something too.. its a good day :)

edit: playback sucks under windows media, but quicktime played it back perfectly.

- Pete


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Clayton Orgles
Re: How can I edit and export 48fps footage in Premiere CS4
on Feb 12, 2013 at 7:31:03 am

Sorry if this reply is a little late, but you could possibly take the Lossless Animation export and use MPEG Streamclip to convert it to H.264 with a custom frame rate.


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Noland Orozaco
Re: How can I edit and export 48fps footage in Premiere CS4
on Feb 7, 2013 at 10:54:08 pm

I should have been more clear. The client wants H.264 quicktime files at 48fps 1080p. After Effects can only export H.264 in 30 or 50 frames as well. I'm attaching a screenshot so you can see the menu. Is there any way to make premiere or ae render out quicktime h.264 at 48fps at 1080p.



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Peter Berthet
Re: How can I edit and export 48fps footage in Premiere CS4
on Feb 5, 2013 at 6:08:30 am

i cant help but wonder why you dont just do it at 50 fps and interpret the extra 2 frames.... its not like anyones going to see the difference

- Pete


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Noland Orozaco
Re: How can I edit and export 48fps footage in Premiere CS4
on Feb 7, 2013 at 10:53:20 pm

The fact that it is exactly 48 fps is a very important part of the project =)


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Peter Berthet
Re: How can I edit and export 48fps footage in Premiere CS4
on Feb 8, 2013 at 12:44:58 am

ok.. but my point is, for the headache involved in working in a non standard format, nobodys gonna see the difference between 48 and 50

- Pete


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Shane Ross
Re: How can I edit and export 48fps footage in Premiere CS4
on Feb 8, 2013 at 1:18:00 am

But can the projector play back 50fps? That would be PAL, right? 48fps isn't PAL...it's an odd frame rate. If the projector plays back that rate, it would have to be that rate exactly, no? 50 isn't the same as 48. There's more involved there.

What brand of projector is it?

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Shane Ross
Re: How can I edit and export 48fps footage in Premiere CS4
on Feb 8, 2013 at 1:31:52 am

And I'm wrong about the web and 48fps...it's very doable:

http://www.hfrmovies.com/The_Hobbit_An_Unexpected_Journey_Trailer.mp4

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Noland Orozaco
Re: How can I edit and export 48fps footage in Premiere CS4
on Feb 8, 2013 at 1:35:17 am

Let me give you all the information I have.
The purpose of the clips I'm making is to compare motion blur at different framerates.
The client wants quicktime h.264 files at many different fps.
The clip I'm working at now needs to be exactly 48fps so that it can be compared to other clips at different fps.
They need to be viewable on a computer and be projected. I've been assured that the projector can run quicktime h.264 48fps 1080p footage. I don't know the details about the projector, but I'm not really involved in the projection process. I just need to deliver quicktime, h.264, 48fps, 1080p.


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Alex Elkins
Re: How can I edit and export 48fps footage in Premiere CS4
on Feb 8, 2013 at 8:32:25 am

I'm wondering if you might be better off delivering an image sequence rather than QuickTime. If this is running off a projector I would expect them to be able to play DCP files as well as QuickTime. There are free tools that will allow you to convert DPX or TIFF sequences into DCP, links to which can be found if you check out the Wikipedia page for DCP/Digital Cinema Package. From memory I believe one is called OpenDCP.

If that's not an option, perhaps rendering out a TIFF sequence and opening in QuickTime Pro would give you 48fps as a playback option. I'm not at my computer right now do can't confirm this would work, but will have a look later when I get a chance.

Alex Elkins
@postbluetv
http://www.postblue.tv
View my new colour correction reel


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Peter Berthet
Re: How can I edit and export 48fps footage in Premiere CS4
on Feb 8, 2013 at 1:38:05 am

Of course its not the same Shane, but it is more manageable from an edit and delivery point of view

- Pete


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