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Hd Downconvert

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Paul Rozon
Hd Downconvert
on Jan 5, 2012 at 3:28:08 pm

System/Software
HP Z400 Workstation
Matrox MX02LE
Windows 7 Profesional - Service Pack 1
12Gb RAM
Adobe Production Bundle Suite 5.5
NVidia Quadro 4000

I have completed and HD project 1080i and now need to ouput an SD DVD version.

I tried doing it in encore by simply changing the project from blue ray and burning the DVD. Encore re-encoded the project but the results looked pretty rough. It looked like an upper lower field issue. Graphics really highlighted the problem

I then tried exporting from PP as Mpg2 for DVD thinking maybe PP would do a better job of encoding the project but it still looked pretty rough. Again it looked like a field order issue. Graphics again really showed the problem.

For the sake of getting it out the door, I gave up on rendering it out and played it out using the matrox downconvert straight into DVD recorder. All looks fine with no field order issues.

Did some research and all things point to PP not doing such a good job on downconverts. I saw a few threads that were using additional software to get good results.

Is this a fact of life on downcoverts or is it possible that I am missing something in the workflow?


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Ann Bens
Re: Hd Downconvert
on Jan 5, 2012 at 4:43:11 pm

I find exporting from Premiere giving better results then letting Encore do the job
Export to mpeg2-dvd interlaced VBR2 pass with MRQ on and Use Preview files off.
For graphics you can set the them to Always de-interlace in the Field Options.

-----------------------------------------------
Adobe Certified Expert Premiere Pro
Adobe Community Professional


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Paul Rozon
Re: Hd Downconvert
on Jan 5, 2012 at 5:03:29 pm

Project is only 45 minutes so it will fit DVD with CBR @ 9Mbps or will VBR 2 Pass with Target of 9 Mbps yield better results?


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Jeff Pulera
Re: Hd Downconvert
on Jan 5, 2012 at 5:50:44 pm

Hi Paul,

You'll get differing opinions on this, but the general consensus is to not use such a high DVD data rate for playback compatibility reasons. Most users stick to 7 or 8 as a maximum, and I'd just go with CBR since the program is not really long.

As for the field issue, isn't it funny that Matrox will put out a perfect downconvert image in realtime, yet when you render out the same video, garbage! I wish Matrox could somehow be involved with the DVD encoding.

For NTSC, HD video uses upper field, while DVD encoding defaults to lower field. You can try encoding the MPEG-2 for DVD using Upper Field, so that it's not getting flipped and see if that helps, or try Progressive.

As Ann said, use MRQ button which really helps with downscale quality.

Jeff Pulera
Safe Harbor Computers


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Ann Bens
Re: Hd Downconvert
on Jan 5, 2012 at 6:01:05 pm

I always set dvd encoding to 9, never had any trouble playing the dvd's.

-----------------------------------------------
Adobe Certified Expert Premiere Pro
Adobe Community Professional


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Paul Rozon
Re: Hd Downconvert
on Jan 5, 2012 at 6:14:03 pm

Jeff

I tried rendering upper and lower and the results both look like crap. I will try progressive and see if that improves my situation.

thanks for the suggestions.


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Chris Tompkins
Re: Hd Downconvert
on Jan 5, 2012 at 10:41:41 pm

If you shot interlaced and edited interlaced, create a interlaced SD DVD and Bluray.

DON'T deinterlace for DVD. You're losing res and quality.

Export to AME, select mpeg2 DVD, upper fields to match the 1080i.

Chris Tompkins
Video Atlanta LLC


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Jon Barrie
Re: Hd Downconvert
on Jan 6, 2012 at 12:14:54 pm

I would really think that the progressive setting from HD i would yeild better results. You might want to have the "Use Maximum Render Quality" ticked as well. It is meant to handle better scaling results, which is exactly what you are doing.

Let us know. Might be best to do some short in out or workspace range samples to compare.

Ticking the Use Maximum Render Quality box will make for a much longer processed export time.

JB

Jon Barrie
Adobe Video Solutions Consultant ANZ
Jon's YouTube Tutorial Page
follow Jon with twitter


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Tim Parsons
Re: Hd Downconvert
on Jan 13, 2012 at 8:43:52 pm

I, too am having the same problem as the OP, but my HD footage is progressive, not upper field.

We are experimenting with a new HD workflow at work. Previously, everything has been 4:3 SD. Now we are testing HD shooting, editing, and delivery. We are experimenting using Adobe CS5.

We still need to distribute some on DVD, however.

Our problem arises when we have pristine HD footage (both 720p and 1080p) and burn it to a DVD... Aliasing. Like crazy.

We have tried nesting our HD timeline inside an SD timeline. Aliasing. We applied antialiasing filter. First, there are no controls for the filter, and second, it makes the video blurry.

We tried direct Dynamic Link of the HD timeline to Encore and burning straight to DVD, letting Encore down-convert, but it aliases on the DVD.

We tried to export to an SD m2v then burning in Encore. The export looks great, but the DVD looks like junk. Aliasing.

I believe that it could be one of two things... or both.

The first theory is, it's taking a native 16:9 signal and cramming it into an NTSC SD widescreen (which is not true widescreen, it's anamorphic), so when playback from the DVD stretches it back out to widescreen, it loses a ton of information.

The second theory is, it's taking a progressive signal and interlacing it, taking half the lines and "staggering" them to be out of sync with the other half of the lines, making it looked aliased.

We have tried exporting with progressive, upper field dominance, and lower field dominance. Nothing works in getting a clean video down-converting to DVD.

Please help! We need to have a working proposal for the new HD workflow by the 16th. If we don't it means another year of 4:3 SD!!


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Chris Tompkins
Re: Hd Downconvert
on Jan 13, 2012 at 8:58:03 pm

Nesting is not the way to go.

SD-DVD will Never look as good as HD. Sadly, until all our clients have Bluray players everywhere, we have to live with this.

Now, Shoot HD Progressive, Edit HD Progressive.
Export from APP sequence - sending it to queue to render out in AME choose the DVD mpeg2 preset, modify the settings, save your own preset.

Keep it progressive.
Up the data rate.
Quality and length of video will affect the outcome here, a 2 hour and 20 min. video just isn't going to look great on a single sided SD-DVD.
But even a 10min. video encoded at the highest data rate, gong from HD to SD, you're going to have some aliasing.

JMO, YMMV.

Chris Tompkins
Video Atlanta LLC


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Tim Parsons
Re: Hd Downconvert
on Jan 13, 2012 at 9:13:16 pm

"Some" aliasing, i could live with, but this is really bad. Can you give me and the OP some recommended settings for minimal aliasing?


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Chris Tompkins
Re: Hd Downconvert
on Jan 13, 2012 at 9:26:07 pm

See Pic:



Chris Tompkins
Video Atlanta LLC


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