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Issues with merged clips in CS 5.5

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Matthew Barrett
Issues with merged clips in CS 5.5
on Sep 3, 2011 at 8:15:00 pm

Hi everyone,

Having an odd issue with Premiere CS 5.5.

Working on a show with audio recorded on an Edirol HDD Recorder. Audio was recorded to a stereo track with each input being panned hard right and left. Have used Modify > Audio Channels > Mono Track Format to separate the panned stereo track to two individual mono tracks. Am able to merge these two mono tracks with the video and edit these merged clips in the main sequence without any problems.

However, when I save my project, exit Premiere, and start it again, the second mono track for every merged clip is dead. There is no audio present, and this happens for every merged clip in the sequence.

The source audio from the Edirol remains unaffected.

Have tried starting with a fresh sequence--as well as a new project--to rule out obscure software bugs, but it has had no effect. Have considered reinstalling Premiere, but wanted to see if the community here could suggest some quicker alternatives.

Any help solving this would be appreciated.

Best,

-Matthew


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Vince Becquiot
Re: Issues with merged clips in CS 5.5
on Sep 3, 2011 at 11:10:56 pm

Hi Matthew,

Try deleting your media cache folder. The location is set in your preferences.

Vince Becquiot

Kaptis Studios
San Francisco - Bay Area


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Matthew Barrett
Re: Issues with merged clips in CS 5.5
on Sep 4, 2011 at 4:42:43 am

Hi Vince,

Just tried deleting the media cache folder and I'm still having the same issue. Out of curiosity I took the files I was merging and nested them as a sub-clip sequence, saved and restarted premiere, and the problem was not present. So it seems to have something to do with the way Premiere is handling specifically merged files (or specifically these merged files), but what that is exactly I'm not sure yet.

Thanks for your help.

-m


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Matthew Barrett
Re: Issues with merged clips in CS 5.5
on Sep 4, 2011 at 5:05:22 am

Tried using the Clip > Audio Options > Breakout to Mono to separate the stereo track instead of the Modify > Audio Channels > Mono Track Format, and it's not killing the audio for the merged clips after saving and restarting premiere. My guess is that Premiere was having trouble indexing the audio files after a restart using the latter method, but as the former names the new files separately and links them to the master clip it must be able to keep track of the data.

...or something.

Anyway, thanks again for your help. I've got me some resyncing to do.

-m


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Douglas Morse
Re: Issues with merged clips in CS 5.5
on Sep 4, 2011 at 9:07:22 am

After cutting an hours worth of material, I notice I have the same problem. When I reopen premiere, I briefly see the waveform on the second track, then Premiere just flat lines it. I'm certainly very upset about this bug and I can't figure out how to fix it.

This is happening with the second audio track on every merged clips -- and these clips were originally stereo and converted to mono at some point in my process. And help and advice appreciated.


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Douglas Morse
Re: Issues with merged clips in CS 5.5
on Sep 4, 2011 at 9:19:00 am

If I use the sync command, the clips seem to be fine. Why do I need to merge them then?

Also according to Adobe

Merged Clips limitations



Full audio channel mapping control in the merged clip is not supported.

Merged clip audio results in mono track audio only.

Final Cut Pro XML and AAF interchange formats are not supported.

Auto-sync using audio waveforms, free-run timecode, time-of-day timecode, AUX timecode, or separate audio timecode is not supported.

Reveal in Adobe Bridge is not supported.

Once created, the merged clip cannot be re-synchronized, or adjusted. You must make a new merged clip.

Adjusting contents of a merged clip is not supported. However, if a particular component clip is deleted, the merged clip may be relinked.

Merged clips or parts of previously merged clips cannt be used to remerge or make a new merged clip. Only component clips may be used to create a merged clip.


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pierre conti
Re: Issues with merged clips in CS 5.5
on Sep 16, 2011 at 2:02:31 am

Has anyone found a solution to that problem?
Once merged, PP turned off and on, one of the two merged audio shows no waveform, no sound.
So basically I can't work unless i just 'link them' wich prevent me from putting any file back in a folder to then make subclip etc.
Any way to get around that? Am I missing something really obvious?

I am absolutely disappointed by PP.. not fast and buggy. If there wasn't AE, I'd switch back to FCP and pray.


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Matthew Barrett
Re: Issues with merged clips in CS 5.5
on Sep 16, 2011 at 3:11:17 am

Hi Pierre,

The only fix I found was the preventative one I described in my previous post: to use the Clip > Audio Options > Breakout to Mono function to separate stereo audio rather than Modify > Audio Channels > Mono Track Format. Doing this before syncing your clips seems to preserve the audio after a save and restart.

Unfortunately I haven't found any way to fix clips already synced using the Audio Channels method. Maybe try contacting Adobe and see what they have to say about the issue?


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pierre conti
Re: Issues with merged clips in CS 5.5
on Sep 16, 2011 at 3:44:02 am

Thanks Matthew, but it doesn't work here.. Also I'm actually only dealing with mono tracks.
I have everything in sync on a timeline: one layer of video and two mono audio tracks.
So I just select a group of three (one video clip with its 2 audio clips) and click merge (w in points). It's all beautiful until i switch off the stuff.
I don't get it. It seems like a huge bug but not so many people are talking about it. I can't believe I'm actually missing FCP...


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pierre conti
Re: Issues with merged clips in CS 5.5
on Sep 16, 2011 at 5:46:46 am

Ok it works. It's a metadata problem. My stereo files were split to mono by plural eyes but it didn't work yet. I had to use Wave agent from the brilliant sound device to separate the original stereo file (that soft does handle metadata very well).
Thanks Matthew!


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Douglas Morse
Re: Issues with merged clips in CS 5.5
on Sep 16, 2011 at 12:56:40 pm

I used Plural Eyes as well on some of these files. BEFORE you put them in a timeline, from within Premiere, right click on the file, modify audio channels, then choose stereo. Once they are merged, they will be split back to mono but will not self destruct when Premiere is closed and reopened.


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Danny Nieder
Re: Issues with merged clips in CS 5.5
on Sep 22, 2011 at 2:33:08 pm

I just discovered this yesterday - unfortunately losing about 5 hours of work. I am working with wav files coming out of a Zoom recorder, and for some reason, I can't modify those audio channels and make them into stereo. (option is greyed out) This is looking like a serious bug, and will post about it over on the Adobe Forums and submit a bug report.


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Vince Becquiot
Re: Issues with merged clips in CS 5.5
on Sep 22, 2011 at 4:28:28 pm

Danny,

You will only be able to modify the files that are not in the timeline or source window. Clear them all and you should be fine.

Vince Becquiot

Kaptis Studios
San Francisco - Bay Area


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Danny Nieder
Re: Issues with merged clips in CS 5.5
on Sep 22, 2011 at 7:44:20 pm

Thanks Vince - I didn't see the emphasized "Before" in a previous post. Does still seem like a bug, but glad there is a workaround.


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Vince Becquiot
Re: Issues with merged clips in CS 5.5
on Sep 22, 2011 at 7:48:53 pm

Danny,

Actually, it's not a bug. When your footage is in a track (say stereo), you can imagine what changing the audio mapping to mono would do to your edit...

Vince Becquiot

Kaptis Studios
San Francisco - Bay Area


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Danny Nieder
Re: Issues with merged clips in CS 5.5
on Sep 23, 2011 at 7:43:30 pm

I just did a test and it worked for me. But, I guess I just am missing something - and maybe you can take a second to kindly explain. Here is the workflow that got me into trouble:
I set the Audio preferences in PPro to "Default Track Format: Mono." That way, whenever I bring any footage or audio files into PPro, even if they are stereo files, it turns them into mono tracks. Coming from FCP, this makes my life easier and makes editing more comfortable with all mono tracks in the timeline.. (Maybe this is the part of the workflow that you will say - "don't do that.")
So, in the timeline, when I am merging a clip, I will have ch. 1 camera audio, ch. 2 camera audio, ch. 3 Lav (from the Zoom) and ch. 4 boom (also from Zoom) I sync the clips. I delete the 2 camera tracks and move the Zoom tracks into Ch.1 & ch. 2. Then, I merge the clips and get the new merged clip in my project panel. Finally, I drop that clip into my main sequence timeline (Also, all mono tracks) and edit away with perfect audio. When I quit and restart PPro, the ch.2 audio waveform (The boom audio from the Zoom) flashes, and then drops away to zero. It is gone - can't recover it until I go through the whole process again.

So, can you please tell me why this is a feature and not a bug? If I am staying in a mono world from import all the way through, why does this need to happen? I appreciate any insight you can give, and I can also do a screencast of this if I wasn't clear. Thanks for your help!


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Richard Lacey
Re: Issues with merged clips in CS 5.5
on Oct 14, 2011 at 7:42:58 pm

Is there any clear way to avoid this issue?
I've been dealing with it for weeks now and it's brought my project completely to a halt.

The audio files and video files both have their audio tracks set to stereo in the project viewer.


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Tom Frisch
Re: Issues with merged clips in CS 5.5
on Mar 12, 2012 at 11:21:09 pm

This is most certainly a bug. If it wasn't, then when you try to merge clips that have 2 mono tracks that weren't properly separated from the source stereo file, it shouldn't work- but it does until you quit.

Good thing I've only wasted 4 hours of my edit that I'll have to re-do now.

Strange thing for me is that I'd been through several shutdown/startup cycles before the problem presented itself.

-Tom


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Eben Abbaan
Re: Issues with merged clips in CS 5.5
on Mar 14, 2012 at 5:54:16 pm

Definitely a bug. I created a merged clip with a video track and four tracks of audio, all from different mics, and edited together a scene.

Now I have a sequence where you can't hear one guy. How the hell do I save the hours I spent on this?


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Tom Frisch
Re: Issues with merged clips in CS 5.5
on Mar 14, 2012 at 6:02:59 pm

I ended up going back to the sequence where I synced all the audio (by hand, because I don't have pluraleyes). Then I went through and used the clip start point from the incorrectly made mono files to align the correctly split out mono files. Then I cut the ends to match the video clip, and made a new merged clip.

Pain in the butt, but easier than resyncing everything.

Then I had to build my sequence up again, using the broken sequence as a reference for which clips I used, I replaced each clip by hand with the new correctly made merged clip.

Frustrating to say the least.


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Eben Abbaan
Re: Issues with merged clips in CS 5.5
on Mar 14, 2012 at 6:16:58 pm

Damn.

I recreated my merged clips (in a "vol2" bin), and was manually laying in just the track of audio that went dead... when Premiere crashed.

Reopened my project and the vol2 merged clips now have a dead audio track in them!


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Tom Frisch
Re: Issues with merged clips in CS 5.5
on Mar 14, 2012 at 6:19:20 pm

I'm guessing that any time you have a stereo set to mono, rather than separated into mono tracks, you'll run into this problem. Probably will have to replace all the audio with properly separated mono clips.

-Tom


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Eben Abbaan
Re: Issues with merged clips in CS 5.5
on Mar 14, 2012 at 6:29:14 pm

Yeah it just crashed again.

Apologies but I'm not understanding what the "proper" way to separate mono tracks is.


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Tom Frisch
Re: Issues with merged clips in CS 5.5
on Mar 14, 2012 at 6:34:23 pm

The proper way is listed higher up in this thread..

"...Clip > Audio Options > Breakout to Mono to separate the stereo track instead of the Modify > Audio Channels > Mono Track Format, and it's not killing the audio for the merged clips after saving and restarting premiere."


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Eben Abbaan
Re: Issues with merged clips in CS 5.5
on Mar 14, 2012 at 6:47:04 pm

So basically this is just a workaround that we know happens to work?

My merged clips are created from what my h4n creates in 4-channel mode: two stereo .wav files. My Premiere Audio preferences are set to 'Default track format: Mono.'

So the fix to this problem is to further break apart those audio files (within the bins) to create 'left' and 'right' quasi-subclips and merged THOSE with the video?


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Tom Frisch
Re: Issues with merged clips in CS 5.5
on Mar 14, 2012 at 6:53:22 pm

I think so. It worked for me yesterday w/ stereo files off my zoom.
I think the default to mono is the problem- it doesn't properly split them to 2 mono files.


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Eben Abbaan
Re: Issues with merged clips in CS 5.5
on Mar 14, 2012 at 6:58:21 pm

I wonder if there's a way to export an "offline" version of the sequence (or the XML) and then reimport using my freshly-minted fully-four-channel merged clips?


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Tom Frisch
Re: Issues with merged clips in CS 5.5
on Mar 14, 2012 at 7:03:13 pm

Let us know if you get that to work. For me it was better just to dig in and fix what I had. Now the project is done, and I won't make that mistake again.

-Tom


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Eben Abbaan
Re: Issues with merged clips in CS 5.5
on Mar 14, 2012 at 7:32:11 pm

Yeah sadly both EDLs and XML are not working properly. I exported to FCP, opened an EDL back in Premiere... the audio in question (the track that was dead in my merged clip) never made it over.

So yeah I don't know what the problem is. But basically the plan moving forward is to manually separate out each track of audio before merging a clip.


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Andrew Gingerich
Re: Issues with merged clips in CS 5.5
on Mar 21, 2012 at 4:44:06 am

Fascinating that Adobe still hasn't addressed this bug. I managed to get an entire feature sync'd before I discovered this issue, so now I have to go back and do it again. Feeling a little bit like I'm Charlie Brown and Lucy just yanked the football away from me.

Just to clarify the workflow for this workaround so I don't have to sync this movie more than twice, is this the way that works?

1. Set the clap frame as the in point for the video and audio clips.
2. Select the audio clip and breakout to mono.
3. This produces a separate clip for each audio track (helpfully all named exactly the same thing so there's no way to tell them apart) that I can then merge with the video clip, producing a merged clip that has 4+ mono tracks that won't magically disappear when I close and reopen the project.
4. Repeat 600 times.

This is seriously the simplest way to include multi-mono recordings in a merged clip?

--
Andrew Gingerich
Filmmaker

http://www.EXGfilms.com


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Eben Abbaan
Re: Issues with merged clips in CS 5.5
on Apr 17, 2012 at 5:55:10 pm

Anybody know if this bug is fixed in CS6? The breakout-to-mono workaround is adding tons of time to my post workflow at the end of every damn day...


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Eben Abbaan
Re: Issues with merged clips in CS 5.5
on May 9, 2012 at 1:57:15 am

Well I've got CS6 up and running and tried merging clips w/o going through them all and breaking out to mono. It's a little early to tell since the problem didn't crop up immediately back in CS5.5, but it looks like this bug has been addressed.


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Danny Nieder
Re: Issues with merged clips in CS 5.5
on May 10, 2012 at 9:55:28 pm

That's really great news. Thanks for testing.


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Alec Toller
Re: Issues with merged clips in CS 5.5
on Jun 6, 2012 at 5:57:11 am

Hey,

Any further news on CS6? Still all clear?
I'm on CS5.5. I just synced a bunch of files that were originally mono (4-track), and upon saving and reopening tracks 2-4 are blank. Strangely, when I merge them by dragging the synced camera and video to a bin (prompting a merge clips command) I get the issue, but if I merge clips by selected the audio and video that I'd like in the project viewer, it seems to be all right. I'm just trying to avoid re-syncing and re-annotating all my footage....


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Nathaniel Bartrum
Re: Issues with merged clips in CS 5.5
on Nov 5, 2012 at 10:03:06 pm

Just encountered a version of this problem, myself. After synching six channels of mono track to my DSLR .mov files for almost a week (without issue), Premiere 5.5.0 crashed on me. Upon re-starting the program, none of the mono .wav files would play audio in my merged clips. In fact, the waveforms for each separate track seems to have been "wiped" clean. They are simply dead tracks, now. Oddly, the stereo camera track (which was automatically split to two mono tracks when I merged the clip) is still working fine and dandy... too bad I have practically no use for it.

I've tried deleting the media cache and re-conforming the files. I've tried re-labeling the files, and starting with the files offline before re-linking in Premiere... nothing is bringing back my audio. It looks like I may have lost a whole lot of work.

Having reconciled myself to re-synching all of my footage, I'm now looking for a vote of confidence that it won't happen again. I updated to version 5.5.2, which will hopefully have addressed the problem. But I'm still not feeling terribly confident in Premiere, and am nervous about using it to re-synch all of my footage. Does anyone have any new insight into this issue? Anyone know if the 5.5.2 update addressed the bug? I would really appreciate any advice!


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Eben Abbaan
Re: Issues with merged clips in CS 5.5
on Nov 6, 2012 at 3:08:04 am

I had identical issues. I upgraded to CS6 and have not had them since. 5.5.2? That's been out for a while man!

Unfortunately you've lost work. I did too and tried everything under the sun to get it back and nothing worked. You find something, I'd be interested to hear what it is.


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