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Premiere Pro Versus Final Cut Pro

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Dex Craig
Premiere Pro Versus Final Cut Pro
on Apr 7, 2006 at 10:10:41 pm

Hi, All --

I'm a long time user of Premiere Pro and have the Adobe Video Collection (Premiere Pro 1.5.1, AfterEffects Pro 6.5, Encore DVD 1.5, Audition 1.5, and Photoshop CS), but have no particular bent in the Mac v PC war. My partner has an enthusiastic dislike for Microsoft, so as a unit we're drawn away from the PC platform and with it, Premiere.

I've never used Final Cut, though I've cut on Media 100, Avid and Premiere over the years.

Here's what I'd like to ask: If I switch to FCP, will I be losing something amazing by not using Premiere? I know that there will be some integration issues between FCP and AfterEffects (no ability to copy clips from the NLE timeline and paste them into the AfterEffects timeline), but just viewing FCP versus Premiere Pro, how do the two stack up?

I'm moving into HDV production, as well, so I'm expecting to need to purchase new hardware, so I'd be expecting to pay about the same for either platform.

So, all things being equal, which is better? (I'll be asking the same question in the FCP forum, as well.)

Thanks for any opinions in advance. And, please, let's not get into any Mac v PC stuff. I get enough of that with my partner! :o)

- Dex




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Steve Freebairn
Re: Premiere Pro Versus Final Cut Pro
on Apr 7, 2006 at 10:27:37 pm

They both are very good. Even though I love premiere, there are things that FCP does well. Like working with Film originated material. In using it though, there are also things that I'm surprised that it is lacking. For the sake of time, i'll just give two examples.

1. In premiere if you want to trim the head of a clip and automatically have the rest of the project (or clip) slide over to fill the trim, you push CTRL. I asked many FCP users and no one new of a way to do it. I'm not saying it can't "close the gap" in fact, it tries closing the gap even when it shouldn't, but it is nice to be able to grab a clip and shorten/lengthen a clip by holding down CTRL.

2. When you slow footage down, there is no magical "Maintain Audio Pitch" button, which isn't used all the time but it can be used. (it really isn't a big deal, but I was shocked that the program that everyone says they love and is the best didn't have all of Premiere's features and then some, it actually had different features)


Ok, so those aren't huge, but I'm curious why you don't use AVID on a mac, if you've already used it. HDV works just fine on PCs and Macs, although you'll pay more for the mac side of things. Storage is where you'll really get taken.


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Erik Lindahl
Re: Premiere Pro Versus Final Cut Pro
on Apr 7, 2006 at 10:57:03 pm



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Mike Cohen
Re: Premiere Pro Versus Final Cut Pro
on Apr 7, 2006 at 11:16:16 pm

you know, that would be an interesting book - FCP vs. PPRO.
Invent a video project, shoot the footage, write a script, with storyboards for effects and editing selects - basically do all the prep for hading off to an editor.
Then hand the materials off to one or more FCP and PPRO editors, and have them keep track of time spent doing each task, and document how they did each effect or type of edit.
Then interview the editors on a edit by edit basis to get feedback about how they were able to do everything, including workarounds or hassles.

Then make a book comparing and contrasting the two approaches to editing the
same material.

I'd buy it.

Mike


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Alex Udell
Re: Premiere Pro Versus Final Cut Pro
on Apr 8, 2006 at 12:01:11 pm

Hi...

Just to be fair:
"1. In premiere if you want to trim the head of a clip and automatically have the rest of the project (or clip) slide over to fill the trim, you push CTRL. I asked many FCP users and no one new of a way to do it. I'm not saying it can't "close the gap" in fact, it tries closing the gap even when it shouldn't, but it is nice to be able to grab a clip and shorten/lengthen a clip by holding down CTRL."

Answer: This is accomplished by using the Ripple tool when performing the timeline Trim (keyboard shortcut RR)

"2. When you slow footage down, there is no magical "Maintain Audio Pitch" button, which isn't used all the time but it can be used. (it really isn't a big deal, but I was shocked that the program that everyone says they love and is the best didn't have all of Premiere's features and then some, it actually had different features)"

Answer: Unlink the events ont he FCP timeline Prior to doing the timeline based speed change. Also FCP will natively allow speed ramping something Pre Pro does not do.


As far as After Effects is concerned: FCP + Automatic Duck is a great combo for that workflow...It's not dynamic linking, but it will get you into AE pretty painlessly.

I'm not talking down Premiere, I spend more time in it these days.
But I want the options out there.

Cheers...


Alex


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alex martucci
Re: Premiere Pro Versus Final Cut Pro
on Mar 30, 2009 at 4:34:47 pm

look out for fcs3 wow...it will be the best


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Addman
Re: Premiere Pro Versus Final Cut Pro
on Apr 7, 2006 at 11:58:46 pm

They are very close in feature set...each one has its own quirks and way of working. Having spent a lot of time editing with both, I think Adobe has really nailed it with the current release.

I could list a side-by-side comparison (or you could find one on-line somewhere), but you know something, in this case it really all comes down to what you, as an editor, feel most comfortable with. I love the way PPro, and the other Adobe apps, work. For me, everything just sort of flows together...I don't find things to be that easy or smooth with FCP and the Apple apps. They are good, but not great. But I have plenty of editor friends who think the opposite.

Download the trial version of PPro 2 and play with it...see what you think. Honestly, that's the best way for you to figure it out.



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Steven L. Gotz
Re: Premiere Pro Versus Final Cut Pro
on Apr 8, 2006 at 2:19:50 am

When I did the Premiere Pro 1.5 tutorials for Lynda.com, I copied the FCP tutorials using the same footage. All I know is the other instructor kept explaining workarounds that were no problem in Premiere Pro. And the ability to edit in audio units is very cool. On the other hand, mouse users like myself could get used to the concept of drop zones like they have in FCP. Drop toward the top of a track is one thing, the bottom another. Kind of cool.

In any case, the two products are a lot closer than you might think. The test would need to include real world editing issues, but you would have to be certain that the features that make Premiere Pro better are included, and that the features that make FCP better are also included. So you would really have to be familiar with both products uniques features.


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Mike_S
Re: Premiere Pro Versus Final Cut Pro
on Apr 8, 2006 at 9:51:27 am

Looking ahead to HDV, you might want to consider that workflow carefully, and look at the HDV forum posts.

At present, the http://www.cineform.com approach appears to have a lot to be said for it - which might influence your thinking.


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dickij
Re: Premiere Pro Versus Final Cut Pro
on Apr 8, 2006 at 10:39:58 am

I thought that the advantages of Dynamic link with After Effects and the other tie-ins would mean that PPro would be a better choice than FCP. However, I just had to post this

http://forums.creativecow.net/cgi-bin/new_read_post.cgi?forumid=3&postid=86...

as my PPro would not connect to my SONY Z1 over Firwire, so perhpas FCP does HDV more painlessly!? Any tips?

(What was the problem with AVID|DS not importing QTs? I thought DS was the business!?)
Jamie




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Erik Lindahl
Re: Premiere Pro Versus Final Cut Pro
on Apr 8, 2006 at 12:21:30 pm

What was the problem with AVID|DS not importing QTs? I thought DS was the business!?
This is, you could say, an AVID|DS problem put more a windows-problem. We delivered 14 uncompressed QuickTime on DVD:s to the post-facility. Since they came from a Mac they actually didn't have the extension ".mov". This made Windows and AVID|DS clueless to what kind of files we we


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Ron Shook
Re: Premiere Pro Versus Final Cut Pro
on Apr 8, 2006 at 5:56:34 pm

Erik,

[Erik Lindahl] "I would, however do two things:

1. Try out Premier Pro 2.0
2. Wait after NAB and see what Apple + AVID has to offer (or perhaps something new from Adobe, however that seems very unlikely)"


Good Advice!

As far as anything new from Adobe, as you say, "That seems very unlikely." However..., what we need to have delivered, or hear about delivery, from Adobe at NAB is a patch to correct the things that were broken in 2.0 and to deliver the proxy files and MXF native support for DVCPro codecs, XDCam & IMX codecs, and other MXF codecs. If PPro is gonna deliver as a pro NLE application, we can't wait another year or 2 for those features. If some of this comes from a 3rd party, like Matrox, at extra cost, so be it, but immediate needs and broken features can't be left to fester between major upgrades in a professional application.

Ron Shook



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Tim Kolb
Re: Premiere Pro Versus Final Cut Pro
on Apr 8, 2006 at 6:44:54 pm

[dickij] "I thought that the advantages of Dynamic link with After Effects and the other tie-ins would mean that PPro would be a better choice than FCP. However, I just had to post this

http://forums.creativecow.net/cgi-bin/new_read_post.cgi?forumid=3&postid=86...

as my PPro would not connect to my SONY Z1 over Firwire, so perhpas FCP does HDV more painlessly!? Any tips?"



My Z1 works fine with PPro...it's not a software issue.

FCP has no ability at this time to deal with any of the special frame modes in HDV cameras...CineFrame in Sony, 24F in Canon, 24p in the JVC...only Aspect/Prospect HD on PPro and I believe Edius handles all modes and framerates available on HDV at this point.

NAB may change that...for Apple's sake, it probably needs to...




TimK,

Kolb Productions,
Creative Cow Host,
Author/Trainer
http://www.focalpress.com
http://www.classondemand.net


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Larry Sherwood
Re: Premiere Pro Versus Final Cut Pro
on Apr 9, 2006 at 3:34:36 pm

Is anyone doing long-form, feature or doco, projects on PPro. I have heard of some problems in PPro projects that:

A. Have loads of source material
B. Use nests in their main timeline because of the need to "sync dailies" on the system

I have heard that there are still some "memory" issues with long projects.

Any comments from users who are doing these on PPro 2.0 ?

Thanx
LS

Larry Sherwood
Sherwood Post Production
Austin, Texas
512 219-8721
larry@sherwoodpost.com


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dave kulawick
Re: Premiere Pro Versus Final Cut Pro
on Apr 10, 2006 at 1:38:27 pm

Thanks for asking Larry. But I must admit I'd have thought you'd be the guy who knew. I know people have finished features on PPro, but I, like you, am looking for someone who's done the cutting and taken the project from 15+ hours down to 48 minutes; what's the media handling like, how does the binning help/hinder finding stuff, how many versions of a given scene, act, or entire version can I have open simultaneously, etc. etc. All the long-form doc issues that edit* handles so easily.

dbk



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David Cherniack
Re: Premiere Pro Versus Final Cut Pro
on Apr 11, 2006 at 3:00:07 am

Hey, Larry,

Though we've talked about it I may as well mention my experiences for the community.

Running Axio with 3GB of ram and PPro 2 with a large project with 2 levels of subtimelines and a DV project with a few thousand clips.

Because of the well known memory management problems with PPro 1.5 Matrox provided a system tray icon to track memory useage. At a certain point of growth in my project as soon as 1.5 reached about 85% of available memory the program would crash. In point of fact, I had to stop editing because it would only take a few edits to reach the dreaded 85%.

I had high hopes that Adobe, having heard from numerous large project users about the problem (one only need to go on Adobe's PPro forum) would have fixed memory management in version 2. Unfortunately cross app integration seems to have taken a higher priority and they only put together a partial fix. Memory gets consumed but it also is freed up - some of it, but not all of it. Consequently the 85% crash limit is reached, but just not as quickly. Saving the project, rendering, audio conforming, all consume more memory than they give back. I have to restart PPro 3-6 times a day to avoid crashing. It really is quite frustrating. I don't know how Adobe can claim to serve a professional market with such a glaring defficiency.

That's my exprerience. As good as Axio is, the Premiere Pro architecture wasn't spec'ed to support large projects....at least in my experience.


David
AllinOneFilms.com


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Lance Bachelder
Re: Premiere Pro Versus Final Cut Pro
on Apr 11, 2006 at 9:59:22 am

Cutting a feature right now in 2.0 with no problems. The same show was a disaster in 1.5, radical improvements in 2.0 - we thought we'd have to divide the show into several reels but have been cutting the entire 90 min. timeline with no problems at all.

We will be re-capturing the HDCAM masters soon via Cineform Prospect/Xena on a HP 9300 - I'll post the results.

Lance Bachelder
Southern California
Cow Forum Host- Magic Bullet



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David Cherniack
Re: Premiere Pro Versus Final Cut Pro
on Apr 11, 2006 at 12:37:12 pm

BTW, if you really want some horror stories with large documentary projects you should check with Marisu. I believe she sometimes has to work with 10,000 or so clips. Maybe she and others haven't seen this sub-thread and it should be started as a new thread.

David
AllinOneFilms.com


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J/D Video
Re: Premiere Pro Versus Final Cut Pro
on Apr 10, 2006 at 9:21:31 pm

Just finished a project with 17 hrs of footage, cut down to 24 min and will start a 48 min ver. soon. Didn't have any problems with memory or the system slowing down.I did'nt like the way the bins were set up, but I realy did like the reveal in project function.I loaded the footage by tape # in order and had printed shot list of each tape, that was a lot quicker for finding the shot that I needed .
John



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Dex Craig
Re: Premiere Pro Versus Final Cut Pro
on Apr 11, 2006 at 12:27:12 am

Thanks to everyone for the thoughtful responses. I really do appreciate the extraordinarily civil tone this thread has taken!

I already am very familiar with Premiere Pro; I've just finished a 91 minute feature (edited from 21 hours of tape) in standard definition using Premiere Pro 1.5.1. The issue we ran into is that my partner does not want to use Microsoft products, so he's a Mac man (though he prefers Linux, but the tools aren't there within our budget for compositing and other effects).

(To answer Larry's question about how well Premiere handled a feature, I'm quite pleased. We had some file organizational issues, but those were ours, not the softwares. I never had difficulty with Premiere handling the enormous amount of video, except when loading the project. The progress bar would zip across until it was about 9/10 of the way done, then stop and give no indication that the computer was even alive sometimes for as much as 5 minutes. Once the project was loaded, though, it ran very nicely. Oh, and we used an off-the-shelf HP machine with no specific video card. It's a P4 with a gig of ram, but nothing special.)

So, for our complex, effects-laden sci-fi action adventure, we edited on Premiere and did much of the FX work in AE on the PC, but much of it was also done in AE on the Mac. Moving the AVIs from the PC to the Mac and getting AE to know what to do with them was a major work flow snag.

Given that my partner won't move to a windows machine, I'm contemplating moving to FCP for the next project we do to improve the workflow. We're planning on working in HDV, so I'm expecting that I'll need to upgrade my hardware, regardless of which software package I use.

Everyone's responses here have been very helpful. I'll be playing with FCP (since my partner bought it on a lark the other day) and seeing if it's something I can jump into easily.

And if anyone is interested, I'll be happy to post my observations about the two packages once I feel I have enough basis to compare them.

Thanks, again!
- Dex
http://www.pandemoniummovie.com



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Larry Sherwood
Re: Premiere Pro Versus Final Cut Pro
on Apr 11, 2006 at 12:40:35 am

Glad to hear positive experiences with long form on PPro, but a key part of my question was whether or not any of you had nested timelines in your final version that were created because of the need to sync dailies on the system. I would still like to hear expereinces with nested timelines in a long form project.

Thanx to all who replied

LS

Larry Sherwood
Sherwood Post Production
Austin, Texas
512 219-8721
larry@sherwoodpost.com


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JEditus
Re: Premiere Pro Versus Final Cut Pro
on Apr 12, 2006 at 3:05:52 am

If you render a TL and nest it into another you'll have to render again, for some reason. I'm not fond of this!

One workaround is to render out the finshed TLs w/o recompression and throw those movies into a TL to export out.

-j


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