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proxy workflow: copy & paste proxy sequence to 10bit b4 final export?

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Samuel Frazier
proxy workflow: copy & paste proxy sequence to 10bit b4 final export?
on Aug 15, 2019 at 11:12:44 am

I'm about to finish a documentary that had everything from GoPros, to DSLRs, to 10bit 4k footage. I've been editing from a ProRes Proxy sequence b/c my proxy files are likewise ProRes Proxy formatted. I know that the final export will look for the online files and export that, but is there any point in copy and pasting the ProRes Proxy sequence into a 10bit sequence?

Also, if it matters, I'm to export the film as an H.264. Unless I'm mistaken, this is always 8bit and not 10bit.

Thanks for any help!!



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Shane Ross
Re: proxy workflow: copy & paste proxy sequence to 10bit b4 final export?
on Aug 15, 2019 at 6:27:09 pm

Why are you doing this? This IS NOT the final export, correct? but, exporting for review or something? If so, there's zero point in going to a 10-bit sequence. The output will be H.264, and it won't even be made from the masters, so no sure what if any quality will be gained.

Shane
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Samuel Frazier
Re: proxy workflow: copy & paste proxy sequence to 10bit b4 final export?
on Aug 15, 2019 at 7:45:08 pm

Thanks for that, but this is the final export and desired format for a film festival. I would have moved the items in the ProRes Proxy sequence into a 10bit sequence via copy and paste long before, but we had problems along the way. My friend doing the color correction had incredibly poor playback (even on his iMac Pro 10 core) and so many crashes, that he was only barely able to work from the ProRes Proxy sequence.

I'm confused when you say it won't be made from the masters though, b/c Premiere does automatically go back to the masters when you export. I'm pretty sure about that b/c my proxies had watermarks stamped on them when they were created showing they are the proxies and not the masters, but my exports do not have the watermark.



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Shane Ross
Re: proxy workflow: copy & paste proxy sequence to 10bit b4 final export?
on Aug 15, 2019 at 8:25:21 pm

[Samuel Frazier] "Thanks for that, but this is the final export and desired format for a film festival."

Then you shouldn't be doing that with the proxy footage at all. You need to relink back to the camera masters/full res masters (click of a button) and THEN do your online and output. Never master with Proxy footage. Dropping that into a 10-bit sequence doesn't magically make it full resolution.

[Samuel Frazier] "My friend doing the color correction had incredibly poor playback (even on his iMac Pro 10 core) and so many crashes, that he was only barely able to work from the ProRes Proxy sequence."

Then transcode to ProRes HQ, or ProRes 4444. Many camera masters take a lot of system resources to play back natively. And even with a totally decked out high end system, some won't play back smoothly, so you transcode to a high end, finishing codec.

[Samuel Frazier] "I'm confused when you say it won't be made from the masters though, b/c Premiere does automatically go back to the masters when you export."

Does it? I thought you had to click that one button in order to switch the sequence back to linking to the masters, and not the proxies.

[Samuel Frazier] "I'm pretty sure about that b/c my proxies had watermarks stamped on them when they were created showing they are the proxies and not the masters, but my exports do not have the watermark."

Ok, my Premiere experience might be falling behind as I'm not on the latest version. But still, you really should do a proper online, relinking to the masters and grading those, or transcoding those to high res masters and grading them. Even color grading the proxies won't show you what's really happening.

Shane
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Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Samuel Frazier
Re: proxy workflow: copy & paste proxy sequence to 10bit b4 final export?
on Aug 16, 2019 at 12:59:01 am

[Shane Ross] "Never master with Proxy footage. Dropping that into a 10-bit sequence doesn't magically make it full resolution."

I should have described this in more detail, but figured it would be the tr,dr. Premiere is so buggy with this project on his iMac that even switching b/t the proxy and the master often crashed it. It's still buggy and prone to crashing on my 2017 iMac, but not nearly as bad. So, it was a choice of having him either not do the color correction or to do mostly proxy correction. I believe he still braved switching from proxy to master as much as he could, but he'd always have to switch to proxy to actually get it to play back. I figured the only correct way to do it would be copy and paste the clips into a 10bit seq and switch to the masters. This just would not happen on this project though.

[Shane Ross] "Then transcode to ProRes HQ, or ProRes 4444. Many camera masters take a lot of system resources to play back natively. And even with a totally decked out high end system, some won't play back smoothly, so you transcode to a high end, finishing codec."

I thought about and tried this out. Unfortunately, the transcoded files would have been way too big for me to work from--especially as I was traveling a lot and working from a 4TB SSD RAID.

[Shane Ross] "Does it? I thought you had to click that one button in order to switch the sequence back to linking to the masters, and not the proxies."

Yeah, it does. Very handy too!! I think Premiere gives an alert to this effect when you export from proxy files.

[Shane Ross] "But still, you really should do a proper online, relinking to the masters and grading those, or transcoding those to high res masters and grading them. Even color grading the proxies won't show you what's really happening."

No doubt, that is the way to do it. But, I've now got the color correction from him and it's definitely better than what I could do. Ideally, I'd take that see what I get when this is in a 10bit sequence and using the masters.

But, in the short term, I take it there's not much point copy and pasting the clips into a 10bit timeline & exporting from there to H.264, right?



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greg janza
Re: proxy workflow: copy & paste proxy sequence to 10bit b4 final export?
on Aug 16, 2019 at 4:03:48 am

[Samuel Frazier] "Premiere is so buggy with this project on his iMac that even switching b/t the proxy and the master often crashed it. It's still buggy and prone to crashing on my 2017 iMac, but not nearly as bad. "

This is probably more of an issue with the imacs you're using and the setup of those computers than a Premiere issue. Share your computer specs and it'll be easy to determine if you're problem resides with your hardware.

Also, what's the codec of your master files? If they're H264 files it could explain why you're running into so much trouble.

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Samuel Frazier
Re: proxy workflow: copy & paste proxy sequence to 10bit b4 final export?
on Aug 19, 2019 at 3:10:51 am

Sorry for the delay. I had to deliver the final exhibition cut of the doc and was drowning in sea of glitches and crashes. But, that's for another post.

My specs:
2017 iMac 27" 5k
4.2 GHz Intel Core i7 (4-core)
32GB Ram
4TB Oyen Digital minipro raid v3 (USB-C raid w/ 2 x 2TB SSD drives in RAID 0)

And yes, H.264 is the master of almost all of my files. It's very mixed bag of cameras though. So, what's the issue w/ H.264? If it matters, for the proxy workflow, I made ProRes Proxy files.



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John Pale
Re: proxy workflow: copy & paste proxy sequence to 10bit b4 final export?
on Aug 15, 2019 at 11:54:22 pm

Post your current sequence settings.
You should be editing with the sequence set up for your hi res output all along, never set up for your proxy resolution. In order to play the proxies you just click the proxy button.


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Samuel Frazier
Re: proxy workflow: copy & paste proxy sequence to 10bit b4 final export?
on Aug 19, 2019 at 3:16:25 am

It's 1080p24 ProRes Proxy. The two best cameras I had running were

1- a Sony FS700 in 4kp60 and 4kp24 in ProRes HQ
2- Panasonic EVA1 in vlog at 4kp24 and also 1080p108.

So, I figured my final online edit should in 1080p24 ProRes HQ, but thought it would require less of the computer if I did the assembly in 1080p24 ProRes Proxy. From what you wrote, I'm guessing that's wrong though, huh?



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John Pale
Re: proxy workflow: copy & paste proxy sequence to 10bit b4 final export?
on Aug 22, 2019 at 1:34:44 pm

Probably should have edited in a 4K sequence. Premiere scales the proxies to match making the whole thing seamless. Just press the button and you are editing with proxies instead of hi res media. Nothing to fiddle with when you export. Premiere will use the hi res media and renders. I guess you can paste everything into a new 4K hi res sequence after the fact.


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