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Inherited project: Frame size issues, clips are different sizes but should not be.

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Nina Lucia
Inherited project: Frame size issues, clips are different sizes but should not be.
on Jun 17, 2019 at 2:56:35 am
Last Edited By Nina Lucia on Jun 17, 2019 at 9:45:14 am

Premiere CC 2018 12.1.2 (build 69)
Mac 10.11.6
Anamorphic footage


So I’m new to Premiere. I inherited this feature film project and I had noticed that some shots were having to be resized in the timeline since when they are cut in they are a smaller frame size. They were already being resized in the timeline prior to my doing anything, so this was an existing situation before I received the project. Everything was shot with the same camera, same specs, so they should all be the same frame size. Proxies were made, presumably all at the same specs.
I copied all proxies and no camera originals to an internal drive that I am using, so all media I am using should be the proxy media.

The original project was CC 2019, I made it so I could open it in 2018. Timeline is set at 2944x2160.


Investigating, I see that in the project window there is different info in some of the columns as follows:

Shots that work properly have for the Orig Cam Files - Proxy: Attached, Video Info: 2944x2160 (2.0), Status: Offline: User Requested

Shots that cut in too small have for the Orig Cam Files - Proxy: Offline, Video Info: 2160x1620 (2.0), Status: Online -
AND… just noticing that in what seems to be the original dailies import bins, Day 05, the file name is appended with “_Proxy”, so it seems that maybe they have lost the connection to the original camera files and are only referencing the proxies, hence the smaller size?



I tried “attaching” the proxies for one scene but that didn’t change anything other than have it say they are attached. I don’t want to do anything to make them “Offline: User Requested” since I don’t know what that will do. I don’t understand why or how those other shots can say that and yet the media is still online. And after trying this I noticed the above info about the files saying they are “_Proxy” files.


So… does anyone know how/why this happened and what I can do to fix it? Right now all the shots that say they are 2160x1620 are resized in the timeline, so when I turn over to an online editor it will say there is a resize but there shouldn’t be one. Also, any shots I have resized or put a push in on that had to be ‘fixed’ to fit the frame will have an incorrect value for those since they are being applied onto a shot that shouldn’t have had that first resize on it.
I do have a drive with the camera originals on it, so do I need to reattach these clips to the camera originals in a way that they reference those and yet I still use the proxies for editing? And hopefully in a way that will make the affected Merged Clips use the proxies but at the camera original frame size. I really hope I don't have to manually cut all the problem shots into the seq once they are fixed.


Secondly… the camera files are 2944x2160, the DP shot at 2880x2160 with framing intended for 2578x2160. Since the sequence is set at 2944x2160 we are seeing a lot on the sides that we are not supposed to see. We didn’t know why we were seeing all this camera equipment in the shots until I found the framing chart and see that the sides are not supposed to be visible, they should have been framed out.
So I made a matte to pillar box the current sequence and that works, but then I tried making a sequence with the 2578x2160 setting which matches the framing chart and to my pleasant surprise, I can move the frame side to side and see the parts that don’t show in the frame, so I can reframe without blowing up if needed. Really love that.

Then I copied the the clips from the current 2944x2160 timeline into the new 2578x2160 timeline everything seems fine. Is that okay to do that? I come from Avid so I’m used to Project Settings determining these things, not Sequence Settings so I want to be sure I’m not introducing another problem by cutting everything into a new sequence with different settings.
Also, the markers don't translate over doing this. Is there a way to get the markers to the new seq? Exporting and importing perhaps, like I can do with Avid?

And while I’m cutting things into a new timeline…. the orig audio was recorded at 48khz but the merged clips and the sequence were made a 44.1khz. So can the new sequence be set at 48khz to correct this audio problem? I’m going to need to have it turned over to sound at 48khz.
Original post about this issue here: https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/3/1009342

So basically I need to figure out how to get all the clips to be the same size (all referencing camera originals?) so I don’t have ‘incorrect’ resizes in the timeline. And also get the audio back to 48khz as it is supposed to be.

Help? Please! ☺

TIA


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Oliver Peters
Re: Inherited project: Frame size issues, clips are different sizes but should not be.
on Jun 17, 2019 at 6:38:04 pm

[Nina Lucia] "The original project was CC 2019, I made it so I could open it in 2018."

What does that mean? Premiere projects generally cannot be back-revved into older app versions.

All of your frame sizes are very, very wacky. It sounds like the DP shot with an anamorphic lens, which means the frame is supposed to be stretched horizontally by a 2x (maybe) factor. Depends on the lens and camera. If the initial editor created the first sequence by simply creating a new timeline based on the first camera clip - as opposed to using a standard preset (HD, UHD, true 2K, true 4K) - then they've create a world of trouble from the get-go.

It does sound like you have lost links to the Proxy files and/or camera files. However, it sounds like an Adobe proxy workflow was followed. This means that the application generates proxies and automatically (usually) attaches the proxy media to your clips. Therefore, the media clip inside Premiere is "forked" and you can toggle between camera original and proxy media in a largely transparent fashion. But, if you start moving things around, especially if you do something funky with the project file itself, then this media linking gets very confused. Your descriptions seem to imply that is exactly what has happened and that now the sequence links to proxy files as if they were original media (although I could be misinterpreting your description).

Premiere handles resizing in 4 ways.

Method 1) No automatic scaling. A 3840x2160 clip in a 1920x1080 timeline would appear zoomed in by 2x at a value of 100%.

Method 2) Scale to frame size. Media clips are automatically resized to fit the timeline matching either width or height. The image is resampled so that the new downscaled size is seen as 100%. So if it were a UHD clip, then it would now be interpreted as HD. If you blow it up then, you are actually blowing up the resampled image.

Method 3) Set to frame size. This is similar to 3, except that the image is not resampled. Your UHD clip fits into the HD timeline, but the size is read as 50%. So if you blow up the image, you are still only scaling it back up within its full resolution until you are back to 100%.

Method 4) This is for anamorphic projects and depends on camera metadata. I've worked with Alexa anamorphic clips. Premiere reads the clip's pixel aspect ratio as 2:1. When I cut that into a standard HD timeline (1:1 pixel aspect ratio), Premiere automatically applies the horizontal stretch to make the image appear correct.

The "offline" media issue is because the project wants to see both the proxy and the original files, because of the "fork" I mentioned above. If either is not present, then the files will be offline. This isn't wrong, but you need to be aware of it. If you tell Premiere to "offline all" for the missing files when you launch, then it will not look for these files in the future. It may require manual relinking later when you do need access to these.

How are you handling the online? What type of system? Do not expect this to go automatic without some manual correction. A lot will depend on your camera type and how diligent the crew was with properly file names, transcoding odd frame rates, etc. I typically export a reference file of the final sequence for the online editor to use in making sure sizing, speeds, etc all match.

Unfortunately you have a bit of a problem on your hands that will need to be fixed somewhat manually. I would suggest starting by putting all of the camera media properly back onto your drives and make sure everything relinks to the master files. You might not need the proxies. Then see how you go from there to correct the sizing issues where they occur. I hope that helps.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Nina Lucia
Re: Inherited project: Frame size issues, clips are different sizes but should not be.
on Jun 18, 2019 at 3:48:36 am
Last Edited By Nina Lucia on Jun 18, 2019 at 7:58:10 am

Thanks for your reply Oliver!

There is a way to alter a file that will allow an older version of Premiere to open newer projects. I don't remember how I did it now, but I Googled and found info on how to do it.

The film was shot anamorphic, with the frame meant to be 2578x2160. Making a sequence with that setting fits the framing chart the DP shot perfectly, so I think I'll go with that. I copied the original sequence into it by selecting all clips and pasting and it seems to be good to go. If they need to fit it into a 16x9 frame the online editor can add a matte.

So the issue I'm left with is two days of dailies that are now using the proxy files and not the camera original files.

I used the 'Scale to Frame Size', so I took the resizing off the problem clips and then used 'Scale to Frame Size' and that gets me with a timeline with the clips all at the right size with no resizing on them in the 'Effect Control' panel. So I'm wondering if this will be fine for later when they need to be relinked to the original camera files by the online editor with an AAF (or whatever Premiere makes) that I give them. I don't know what will be used for online/color, I would assume Resolve. Maybe I'll need to link to the camera originals since I can, I don't know yet. Would like to be able to link to the camera originals in any case as I might have to pull some clips for vfx work before we get to the onlining phase.

If I need to get the original camera files for these problem clips, I need to know what steps to take to get the clips connected or pointing to the original camera files rather than the proxies that were made. It seems that maybe the previous editor/asst deleted the camera clips after making the proxies then imported the proxies.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Inherited project: Frame size issues, clips are different sizes but should not be.
on Jun 18, 2019 at 11:30:40 am

[Nina Lucia] "If I need to get the original camera files for these problem clips, I need to know what steps to take to get the clips connected or pointing to the original camera files rather than the proxies that were made. It seems that maybe the previous editor/asst deleted the camera clips after making the proxies then imported the proxies."

Hmm... You should never import proxies. One way to handle this would be to remove the proxy media. Then when you launch, those files will be missing and Premiere will ask to locate the media. Point Premiere to the camera originals. There may be a naming issue, which means you'll have to do this one file at a time (don't use match name in that case).

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Nina Lucia
Re: Inherited project: Frame size issues, clips are different sizes but should not be.
on Aug 24, 2019 at 12:15:36 am

Hi Oliver,

Resurrecting this as the time has come where I have to reconnect to get some vfx pulls done. And I have a better understanding of Premiere and my situation now.

Thank you so much for your valuable input and help. I am able to reconnect to the camera originals, unfortunately, for those two days where they reimported the proxies I do have to manually connect each file due to the name, as you said.

After this I will then see about having everything connect to the proxies again as well as the camera originals, though I think we're pretty much locked, so not too worried about that.

But watch out for my most likely soon to be posted question about how to export same as source for vfx work! 😉

Thanks again! Really appreciate it!


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Oliver Peters
Re: Inherited project: Frame size issues, clips are different sizes but should not be.
on Aug 24, 2019 at 1:31:47 pm

[Nina Lucia] "But watch out for my most likely soon to be posted question about how to export same as source for vfx work!"

You seem like you are well on your way. But don't hesitate to ask. Good luck.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Inherited project: Frame size issues, clips are different sizes but should not be.
on Jun 18, 2019 at 11:51:14 am

[Nina Lucia] "The film was shot anamorphic, with the frame meant to be 2578x2160. Making a sequence with that setting fits the framing chart the DP shot perfectly, so I think I'll go with that"

Just remember that if you are sending Resolve (or other) for finishing, that sizing is going to be completely irrelevant. It's a non-standard delivery size, which means that the finishing editor/colorist will likely have to resize everything anyway. Make sure you export a reference movie with everything showing as intended, so they can match it up.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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