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23.98 workflow to 59.94 deliverable for network?

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Steve Parisi
23.98 workflow to 59.94 deliverable for network?
on Jan 11, 2019 at 2:46:20 pm

What's the best / correct workflow for taking 23.98 4k material through post for network delivery at 59.94. I'm used to being able to send a 23.98 file, and I want to make sure that shooting 23.98 is ok, and that once footage is shot that the conversion is done correctly.

The plan is to edit 4k in Premiere at 23.98 and I'm looking for suggestions on the best process to get to 59.94 correctly. Is it just standard 2:3 insertion, or is there more to it than that? If it is, what's the best / cleanest way to do so? I have Premiere and Autodesk SMOKE at my disposal.

Thanks in advance.

Steve


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Blaise Douros
Re: 23.98 workflow to 59.94 deliverable for network?
on Jan 11, 2019 at 5:40:32 pm

Make a 59.94 timeline in Premiere, and drag all your 23.976 (!!!) media onto it. Once you're done, export a 59.94 file. Premiere will take care of the rest using a combination of black magic and forbidden science.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: 23.98 workflow to 59.94 deliverable for network?
on Jan 11, 2019 at 6:12:14 pm

As long as the 23.976 4K footage is shot progressive -- and I can't see why it would not be -- you're good using it in a 59.94 timeline. You'll get the necessary 3:2 cadence automatically.

And as Blaise suggested, DO NOT assume your 24P footage is 23.98 fps -- it isn't!

In reality it's 23.976 fps. Some camera makers and software makers think our brains will explode by referring to frame rates in three decimal places. Our brains won't. Use the real frame rate: 23.976.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Shane Ross
Re: 23.98 workflow to 59.94 deliverable for network?
on Jan 11, 2019 at 6:52:34 pm

OK....VERY IMPORANT QUESTION HERE...

59.94i or 59.94p? 1080i59.94...or 720p59.94? Or 1080p59.94?

I can assume (which I hate to do) that, being for network TV, it is 1080i59.94...unless it's ESPN or ABC or FOX, that is 720p59.94. SO...1080i59.94 runs at 29.97fps...interlaced. Which means that 23.98 to 59.94i will have to have pulldown added to make it play smooth. (But I think you knew that as you state 2:3 pulldown, I just want to be clear).

I believe the advice given is right. One thing I might try also is to export a 23.98 master, and bring that into a 59.94i project to see if that does what's needed too.

But do note that 23.98 is NDF only...so timing will change. This might be something you know...I'm not sure. But show deliveries to networks are required to meet strict Drop Frame timings. And 23.98 can't do that, so you need to calculate what your 23.98 sequence needs to be so when converted, it meets the 29.97 DF timing.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Steve Parisi
Re: 23.98 workflow to 59.94 deliverable for network?
on Jan 11, 2019 at 7:10:36 pm

First off.. thanks for all the great replies. Yes I'm familiar with 3:2. My question is just to ensure that if we shoot everything at 23.98 that I have some kind of good path to the network deliverable.

The specs I received were kind of sketchy at best, which is part of the reason I turned here for some input. This is what I received for the video specs:

Video Spec: will be up-converted to 4K, can deliver at 1080p with 59.94fps

Our plan is to shoot 4k @ 23.98. I've obviously inquired about more detailed specs, but have not heard anything back yet.

Thanks.

Steve


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Shane Ross
Re: 23.98 workflow to 59.94 deliverable for network?
on Jan 11, 2019 at 9:10:15 pm

[Steve Parisi] "The specs I received were kind of sketchy at best, which is part of the reason I turned here for some input. This is what I received for the video specs:

Video Spec: will be up-converted to 4K, can deliver at 1080p with 59.94fps"


This might be a good time to call and talk to someone at the networks TECH department about this. Because if you are shooting 4K, then you might consider providing a 4K master to them as well, so they don't need to take your 4K, downconverted to 1080, and then upconvert that to 4K. Also see if they wouldn't just take a 4K master instead of a 1080 master, and they do the conversion on their end? This is what I'd do...communicate right away. Don't try to guess at this, talk talk talk.

And 1080p at 59.94 fps...that's an odd deliverable. NO broadcast does that format and frame rate. Broadcast is 1080i29.97. Wonder if they want that for the web. A lot of deliverables are switching to 1080p29.97 for me because they want to also post on web, and web doesn't do interlaced.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Jon Doughtie
Re: 23.98 workflow to 59.94 deliverable for network?
on Jan 12, 2019 at 11:44:28 am

What Shane (and others) have said. The specs provided at least suggest they plan some pokery-jiggery with content after receiving it.

If you get good communication going, you can learn their nefarious plans, add it to your workflow, and ensure the quality of your work across the board.

System:
Dell Precision T7600 (x2)
Win 7 64-bit
32GB RAM
Adobe CC 2017.1 (as of 8/2017)
256GB SSD system drive
4 internal media drives RAID 5
Typically cutting short form from UHD MP4, HD MP4, and HD P2 MXF.


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Steve Parisi
Re: 23.98 workflow to 59.94 deliverable for network?
on Jan 13, 2019 at 11:55:18 pm

I agree completely, which is why I turned to CC. The first thing I did was reach out to them on clarification of specs that seemed questionable to me, which I'm still waiting for. In the meantime, I made my post.

As I stated earlier, our plan is to deliver a 4K master. I see no point in providing 1080 just so they can upres it. Thanks, and stay tuned. Hoping to hear more.

Steve


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