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Anybody make 10bit video Mirrorless Camera?

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Matthew Jeschke
Anybody make 10bit video Mirrorless Camera?
on Jun 22, 2019 at 4:44:43 pm

I'm a bit annoyed, I cannot find a full frame mirror-less camera that does 10-bit video. I'm trying to trim down my kit for work. Currently is a 5dm2 with Magic Lantern. I'm shooting RAW but workflow is too much. I want to shoot 2.7k resolution or higher in 10 bit.

I photograph and make tour videos of residential properties / homes. Looked into getting a dedicated super 35 camera body but the field of view is less than a full frame camera so won't work for me, and I don't like idea of lots more adapters & potential distortion to increase field of view optically on a smaller sensor.

I currently carry a hefty kit and my post workflow is heavily involved. I want to get rid of the RAW workflow, move to 10 bit color (NDxHD would be awesome but I think unlikely), and have the same camera work for my photos. I see Sony is very close to what I'm looking for but no 10-bit color ☹

I think GH5 does 10 bit, but is APS-C. Panasonic came out with a full frame but it doesn't do 10-bit video ☹ I like these new Sony bodies but none do 10 bit video either ☹ I hear rumors of more resolution past 4k but I think that's pointless... Any idea of who might come out with a full frame 10 bit mirror-less camera for video?

Or is it possible to down sample resolution and extrapolate more color data? Most all my videos are rendered to 1080p

--------------------------------------

I do Architectural Photograph & Cinematography as a part of being a Residential Real Estate Consultant.

Some of my work can be seen at,
http://www.youtube.com/keystoaz/
http://www.vimeo.com/matthewjeschke/
http://www.keystoaz.com/

PS. It's an excellent excuse to ride off what I love, Camera equipment :)


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Chris Wright
Re: Anybody make 10bit video Mirrorless Camera?
on Jun 22, 2019 at 8:35:13 pm

You can do 10-bit 4K N-Log with Nikon Z mirrorless and Atomos Ninja V. (not internal)
In a few months, the firmware update will enable 12 bit Prores RAW. Not a bad investment at all.

Not quite sure of other options out there unless you go something full body camera in the $4k range. Maybe someone else can chime in.

If you're worried about FOV, just get a really nice wide lens to counter the crop. You don't need adaptors, just good glass.

4k video will have more color info to downsample than 1080p. Not to mean artifacts won't go away, but chroma key will work better as there is more color to work with.


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Matthew Jeschke
Re: Anybody make 10bit video Mirrorless Camera?
on Jun 23, 2019 at 4:39:48 am

Very helpful info. Thanks for replying.

I've been having some wishful thinking, hoping Sony A7s Mark III will feature 10 bit internal recording when they release it... but my guess is no. I've owned an Atomos before - I ended up selling it and using Magic Lantern instead. I loved the atomos but my 5Dm2 didn't put out a 1080p signal and didn't like lugging extra equipment around.

I'm curious, when down sampling 4k to 1080p... perhaps the 10-bit it not necessary? I have no idea how my software (Sony Vegas) downsamples / what it does. I see in project settings I can select 32 bit. I'm not exactly sure what that 32 bit pertains to? I feel as though, Resolve is the master at this stuff, but again, ug, I don't want to bring it into my workflow. I played with it and took some simple classes and feel it rendered absolutely beautiful colors. I did a few projects in it taking the RAW 14bit stuff from my 5d and rendering it to clips to stich together in Vegas.

I honestly don't believe in 4k video, mainly feel it's a marketing gemik to sell TV(s) and video discs. So I most always render to 1080p for my purposes anyways. Maybe I don't need a 10bit camera in that regard - if always down sampling from 4k?

--------------------------------------

I do Architectural Photograph & Cinematography as a part of being a Residential Real Estate Consultant.

Some of my work can be seen at,
http://www.youtube.com/keystoaz/
http://www.vimeo.com/matthewjeschke/
http://www.keystoaz.com/

PS. It's an excellent excuse to ride off what I love, Camera equipment :)


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Chris Wright
Re: Anybody make 10bit video Mirrorless Camera?
on Jun 23, 2019 at 4:53:25 am

if you have color artifacts or banding in 4k, downsampling will not fix that, but it does have overall more color information. Various systems that down-sample can produce a color merging effect that can subtlety reduce color casts using special forms of bicubic 2:2 that soften the corners in adjacent edges; but edges of banding outside the bicubic interpolation on a larger scale are simply ignored.

You would need some sort of perceptual resizer which afaik, does not exist. if you do get banding, you can use resolve's deband though or chroma noise with neatvideo. There's a lot of funky posts about 4k gives 444 color or something like that, but in reality, the bicubic resizing algorithm is the reason edges are color/luma softened, not some magical reconstructing of luma/chroma giving magical colors.


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Chris Wright
Re: Anybody make 10bit video Mirrorless Camera?
on Jun 23, 2019 at 7:33:36 pm

Panasonic Lumix S1 new 10-bit 4:2:2 4K options with the release of an optional paid upgrade in July 2019.


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Matthew Jeschke
Re: Anybody make 10bit video Mirrorless Camera?
on Jun 24, 2019 at 7:38:25 pm

Man that's a sweet camera! I had been looking at the S1R and didn't seem to have 10 bit color. However, I see the S1 does with a firmware update?

It checks all the boxes except one ☹ Dang it's a big body, I'd hoped to get a smaller camera by switching to Mirrorless from DSLR. I love canon's and Sony's small mirror-less bodies.

I may have to wait for A7s III and hope they incoporate 10 bit color :(

--------------------------------------

I do Architectural Photograph & Cinematography as a part of being a Residential Real Estate Consultant.

Some of my work can be seen at,
http://www.youtube.com/keystoaz/
http://www.vimeo.com/matthewjeschke/
http://www.keystoaz.com/

PS. It's an excellent excuse to ride off what I love, Camera equipment :)


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Chris Wright
Re: Anybody make 10bit video Mirrorless Camera?
on Jul 15, 2019 at 5:04:12 pm

great news, it looks like the Panasonic S1 10 bit works up to 30p without an external recorder.(needed for 60p 10 bit) So, you get all the dynamic range benefits of A7iii sensor with 10 bit VLOG without having to pay for an external recorder! The nikon Z6 just got hit pretty hard.
If the nikon does eventually get prores raw, you'd be up to a debate if you needed that type of codec grading. The SIGMA fp is coming out soon, but too early to tell how it performs. (I personally think its the same 24mp sensor used by pan 1, a7iii, nikon z6)

But, the future of full frame 10 bit looks pretty good.


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Matthew Jeschke
Re: Anybody make 10bit video Mirrorless Camera?
on Jul 15, 2019 at 5:58:59 pm

I hope Sony (or better yet Canon) follow suit. I would snatch a Panosonic S1 today however, to me they completely defeat the purpose of going mirror-less. The S1 body is as big as a DSLR. I have no clue why they did that, other than possibly heat dissipation?

--------------------------------------

I do Architectural Photograph & Cinematography as a part of being a Residential Real Estate Consultant.

Some of my work can be seen at,
http://www.youtube.com/keystoaz/
http://www.vimeo.com/matthewjeschke/
http://www.keystoaz.com/

PS. It's an excellent excuse to ride off what I love, Camera equipment :)


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Bill Stephan
Re: Anybody make 10bit video Mirrorless Camera?
on Aug 7, 2019 at 11:58:14 pm

Canon EOS-R plus an Atomos Ninja recorder will record UHD ProRes HQ @ 10-bits. This camera records UHD using the center 3820x2160 pixels of the much larger sensor, which results in the 1.8x crop factor. The Canon RF lenses are very sharp. Results are similar to what a Canon C200 cinema camera can produce.

Bill Stephan
Senior Editor/DVD Author
USA Studios
New York City


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Matthew Jeschke
Re: Anybody make 10bit video Mirrorless Camera?
on Aug 8, 2019 at 12:29:15 am
Last Edited By Matthew Jeschke on Aug 8, 2019 at 1:58:13 am

Thanks, I'd actually bought a Atomos Nija a while back. I returned it though. It was a fantastic device but all these extra pieces of equipment further complicated my workflow and little did I know 5dm2 wouldn't output 1080p.

I'm actually juggling two priorities (1) Top priority is workflow, I need less equipment that can do more. Right now I have a Chevy Tahoe full of equipment for my photo-shoots. I'm trying to downsize that. (2) I'm also a bit addicted to 14bit raw Magic Lantern files. The workflow is hell but I can really push the files in my editor.

I like the idea of the Swiss army knife of cameras. I do extensive video and photo work in my job. Currently my 5dm2 is behind the times. I make it work but takes me WAY more processing than a new camera would. I know I could get better cinema camera but really cannot handle all the equipment, I hire assistants to help whenever I can but many times I have to do the projects on my own.

I really want a compact mirror-less with some decent lenses. I currently have pro glass but probably will spring for Sigma or something else this time.

Kind of more than anybody needed to know. I really appreciate the help suggestions. I'm super surprised the industry hasn't come at more 10-bit options video yet. I feel rendering any higher than 1080p is all just hype. I think the extra pixels are wasted unless you plan on cropping the video. There is rumor more camera makers will move towards higher resolution video when I think more color information / Lossless codecs are what we need as professionals. I do have a 10bit display and calibration equipment. Was worth every cent, although about $1,300

Right now my plan is to wait on Sony a7s III and see if it supports 10-bit with some decent 60-fps options. If they don't then I'll get the Sony a7 III and settle with 8-bit video & possibly the Atomos as you mentioned.

--------------------------------------

I do Architectural Photograph & Cinematography as a part of being a Residential Real Estate Consultant.

Some of my work can be seen at,
http://www.youtube.com/keystoaz/
http://www.vimeo.com/matthewjeschke/
http://www.keystoaz.com/

PS. It's an excellent excuse to ride off what I love, Camera equipment :)


Return to posts index

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