FORUMS: list search recent posts

Conform hell...

COW Forums : DaVinci Resolve

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Hector berrebi
Conform hell...
on Jan 29, 2017 at 2:58:05 pm

People often ask what's conforming,
the process of bringing a timeline from an NLE into a grading tool,
which in most cases became a relatively simple task in recent years.

Just wanted to share the current project I'm about to grade.
In almost 20 years of post work, it has to be one of the messiest I seen

This is the PP timeline I received.
2:30 minutes
175 cuts.
every time remapping manipulation imaginable
50 nested (some double nested) clips most with multiple instances of stabilization
shot on:
FS700, Still hyper-laps image sequences, a bunch of Sony alpha cameras, 2 different Dji drones and a shot from Youtube.
Frame Rates of media (!) 25, 29.97, 30, 59.94, 120
MTS, MXF, MOV and MP4
4K, 1080 and 720
at least 3 different LOG modes
and a bunch of FX shots from AE (no color management so no LOG)
And, if that's not enough, they did their initial logging (renaming files) on original media (!)

You can guess how Resolve reacted to a standard XML/AAF import... :(


Return to posts index

Glenn Sakatch
Re: Conform hell...
on Jan 29, 2017 at 4:30:26 pm

I feel your pain.

wow...150 seconds with 175 cuts...thats intense!

The first thing i ask when a project i wasn't in control of comes to me is "what was it cut on"
(I ask this more and more for the simple reason of finding out if it came from Premiere Pro instead of Avid.)

I have said for years that Premier (and the old FCP) might make it look really easy to do frame rate conversions, but their inability to track the actual change is hell in an offline/online workflow.

Nesting and baking in effects and renaming master clips just smells of an editor that needs to go through the pain of a conform him or herself, in order to learn what they are doing.

Glenn


Return to posts index

Joseph Owens
Re: Conform hell...
on Jan 29, 2017 at 6:31:49 pm

[Glenn Sakatch] "in order to learn what they are doing."

The standard response to that is that *they* cannot be creatively constrained by technicalities and "not their job" to deal with consequences, intended or not. If it doesn't work in your environment, not my problem, yours to fix.

jPo, CSI

"I always pass on free advice -- its never of any use to me" Oscar Wilde.


Return to posts index


Shane Ross
Re: Conform hell...
on Jan 30, 2017 at 3:52:58 am

What I do in that case is tell them to remove all temp color correction, all titles....and export a high res, ProRes HQ or DNxHD 175x Quicktime movie, and EDL. That I then take into Resolve and chop up and grade that.

When there is that much going on, you can't really bring the sequence into Resolve and relink...too much won't come over.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


Return to posts index

Hector berrebi
Re: Conform hell...
on Jan 30, 2017 at 5:20:39 am

[Shane Ross] " When there is that much going on, you can't really bring the sequence into Resolve and relink...too much won't come over."

Hey Shane ☺

That was my last resort in case nothing else worked.. I didn't want the back and forth with their editing department so I just asked for a cleaned (as much as possible) project including minimum tracks final sequence, no color or filters and related media.

I even considered grading it in PP using the new Lumetri Color tool... but its still EXTREMELY limited.. must be how a Samurai feels when asked to fight with a machete.

I eventually broke it down to 4 sequences, 2 of them baking un-relinkable mts files and nesting mess into PR444.
All 4 linked rather well in Resolve (minimal eyeball fixes here and there) where I re constructed them back to original timeline.

Adobe should really update and improve their XML (and rename it, its still called "Final Cut XML"). It almost feels like they don't want to, which makes sense it a twisted Adobe way.

[Glenn Sakatch] "I feel your pain.

wow...150 seconds with 175 cuts...thats intense!

The first thing i ask when a project i wasn't in control of comes to me is "what was it cut on""


Thanks Glenn.
First question I ask is "what was it shot on" and when they answer Alexa (or RED) I say a silent prayer thanking the gods of post for my good fate 😉 ... But seriously, if it wasn't such a beautiful project, I wouldn't have bothered taking it. I really wanted to grade this (and its well payed).


hector


Return to posts index

Joseph Owens
Re: Conform hell...
on Jan 30, 2017 at 3:47:44 pm

[Hector berrebi] "how a Samurai feels when asked to fight with a machete. "

Letter-opener.

jPo, CSI

"I always pass on free advice -- its never of any use to me" Oscar Wilde.


Return to posts index


Hector berrebi
Re: Conform hell...
on Jan 30, 2017 at 4:26:20 pm

[Joseph Owens] "Letter-opener."

lol...

Indeed..

Did you try to use it for anything other than basic stuff?
You'd think after bombing it with Speedgrade and given their new catfight with BMD, that Adobe would pull out something nice and worthwhile grading-wise. Apple Color wasn't amazing, but was definitely usable.. and that was 2009.


Return to posts index

Joseph Owens
Re: Conform hell...
on Jan 30, 2017 at 7:50:18 pm

[Hector berrebi] "Did you try to use it for anything other than basic stuff? "

I've been grading with daVinci (Renaissance, 8:8:8) since 1994, started NLE grade with Silicon Graphics "Final Touch" (purchased by Apple and re-released as "COLOR"). Switched back to DaVinci with release 9 (multi-layer) and basically snuck a peek at SpeedGrade when it came in the Crackerjack box with Premiere. Closed it and never opened it again.

Haven't been interested in anything else. Previewed Baselight. Couldn't afford the $125,000 license, or the economy offering ...another plugin for layering on top of an NLE timeline.... really???. Pablo, Mistika... always interesting to get opinions when demoing at shows....

jPo, CSI

"I always pass on free advice -- its never of any use to me" Oscar Wilde.


Return to posts index

Marc Wielage
Re: Conform hell...
on Jan 31, 2017 at 7:03:32 am

[Hector berrebi] "People often ask what's conforming, the process of bringing a timeline from an NLE into a grading tool, which in most cases became a relatively simple task in recent years. "
I have a standard 2-page document I send clients that outlines how I need the edit timelines prepped for color before I get them. For something this complicated, I'd just put my foot down and say, "render a flattened ProRes 444 file and I'll color-correct that." The moment source files are renamed, it goes south very quickly.

Speed changes are not 100% interchangeable between Avid, FCP, FCPX, Resolve, Premiere, or anything else. They can work to a degree in some cases, provided they're fixed speed. When Avid 8.x came out, I noticed that suddenly resizing also started to work, including dynamic resizes, which was a welcome surprise.

A lot of this stuff happens because of the limitations of XML. They probably should develop an "XML2" that includes more parameters for stuff like sizing and color and speed and all that other stuff, and do it in a way that's 100% compatible with all software. But getting everybody to agree with those standards will be problematic.


Return to posts index


Joseph Owens
Re: Conform hell...
on Jan 31, 2017 at 3:53:19 pm

[Marc Wielage] "getting everybody to agree with those standards will be problematic."

If not proprietary in some cases.

And then there is politics. This is received and experiential knowledge spanning from a time when there were only three standards for television production, and they just keep multiplying.

jPo, CSI

"I always pass on free advice -- its never of any use to me" Oscar Wilde.


Return to posts index

Hector berrebi
Re: Conform hell...
on Feb 3, 2017 at 3:38:01 pm

[Marc Wielage] "Speed changes are not 100% interchangeable between Avid, FCP, FCPX, Resolve, Premiere, or anything else. They can work to a degree in some cases, provided they're fixed speed. When Avid 8.x came out, I noticed that suddenly resizing also started to work, including dynamic resizes, which was a welcome surprise.

A lot of this stuff happens because of the limitations of XML. They probably should develop an "XML2" that includes more parameters for stuff like sizing and color and speed and all that other stuff, and do it in a way that's 100% compatible with all software. But getting everybody to agree with those standards will be problematic."


I agree, especially since different interpolations can be involved, or files shot on HFR formats interpreted to 30/25 for slomo, then manipulated, and of course speed curves. Sometimes it works perfectly, but many times it doesn't or almost matches with frames off on speed change points etc'. I noticed some clients are OK with these minor changes, others insist on frame2frame accuracy, then flattening remains only decent option.

They definitely should work some on XML (Adobe)... and Avid should probably adopt it. I think XML is open source which should make it easier for them to improve on... FCPX's XML is quite impressive in comparison.

Unless Adobe doesn't want easy way out of its ecosystem to free, competing programs...

[Joseph Owens] "Haven't been interested in anything else. Previewed Baselight. Couldn't afford the $125,000 license, or the economy offering ...another plugin for layering on top of an NLE timeline.... really???. Pablo, Mistika... always interesting to get opinions when demoing at shows..."

I can relate ☺ add Luster to that pile of very-impressive-color-tools-for-people-that-work-for-a-boss-who-has-a-budget

I did try the Baselight plugin for Avid (was on Beta for a while). I found it odd and clumsy (though at some points impressive ) and did not feel I want to use it daily.


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]