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Chris Tomberlin
Prores encoding available on windows but not supported by Resolve - FEATURE REQUEST
on Jun 9, 2014 at 1:19:40 am

Dear BMD,

Please either allow the ProRes encoder for windows from Miraizon http://www.miraizon.com/products/codecsoverview.html
to show up in resolve or license the codec from Apple for the windows version. We professionals would pay extra for it.

Thanks

Chris Tomberlin
Color/Finishing
Outpost Pictures


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Juan Salvo
Re: Prores encoding available on windows but not supported by Resolve - FEATURE REQUEST
on Jun 9, 2014 at 2:15:47 am

Miraizon is reverse engineered prores (ffmpeg) as such not actually fully qualified prores. Official licensing from Apple requires permission from Apple and as such isn't at BMDs discretion. Maybe take it up with apple?

http://JuanSalvo.com
http://theColourSpace.com


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Lance Bachelder
Re: Prores encoding available on windows but not supported by Resolve - FEATURE REQUEST
on Jun 9, 2014 at 5:57:32 am

I've rendered from Miraizon and it shows as Pro Res in FCPX no prob. BMD should include full cross-platform Pro Res support on their paid version - bet it would help sales...

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Bill Ravens
Re: Prores encoding available on windows but not supported by Resolve - FEATURE REQUEST
on Jun 9, 2014 at 11:22:43 am

NOT! The Mirizon codec overwrites the authentic Apple ProRes codec when it installs. Certain features, not available in the Mirizon version, become disabled. Not a good suggestion.



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Ryan Holmes
Re: Prores encoding available on windows but not supported by Resolve - FEATURE REQUEST
on Jun 9, 2014 at 3:50:33 pm

[Bill Ravens] "OT! The Mirizon codec overwrites the authentic Apple ProRes codec when it installs. Certain features, not available in the Mirizon version, become disabled. Not a good suggestion."

[Juan Salvo] "Miraizon is reverse engineered prores (ffmpeg) as such not actually fully qualified prores. Official licensing from Apple requires permission from Apple and as such isn't at BMDs discretion."

I believe the CineMartin ProRes codec falls into the same problem listed by Bill and Juan. It's a buyer-beware situation since they are not officially supported codecs from Apple on the Windows platform.

Ryan Holmes
http://www.ryanholmes.me
@CutColorPost


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Chris Tomberlin
Re: Prores encoding available on windows but not supported by Resolve - FEATURE REQUEST
on Jun 9, 2014 at 3:57:50 pm

It's a buyer-beware situation since they are not officially supported codecs from Apple on the Windows platform.

Well that's the problem isn't it? There IS NO officially supported ProRes codec (for writing) on the Windows platform. I appreciate these companies trying to solve a problem that Apple has no incentive to solve.

Chris Tomberlin
Color/Finishing
Outpost Pictures


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Ryan Holmes
Re: Prores encoding available on windows but not supported by Resolve - FEATURE REQUEST
on Jun 9, 2014 at 4:05:10 pm
Last Edited By Ryan Holmes on Jun 9, 2014 at 4:47:00 pm

[Chris Tomberlin] "Well that's the problem isn't it? There IS NO officially supported ProRes codec (for writing) on the Windows platform."

Completely agree. But as you say this is an Apple problem, not a BMD/Avid/Adobe problem. If a company supplies one of these "work-arounds" as a certified solution for Windows users they'd be on the line for if/when that codec fails to meet QC standards (as has been a problem with previous reverse-engineered ProRes attempts). It's a bag of hurt to be sure.

Ryan Holmes
http://www.ryanholmes.me
@CutColorPost


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Juan Salvo
Re: Prores encoding available on windows but not supported by Resolve - FEATURE REQUEST
on Jun 9, 2014 at 4:45:08 pm
Last Edited By Juan Salvo on Jun 9, 2014 at 4:51:11 pm

[Chris Tomberlin] "There IS NO officially supported ProRes codec (for writing) on the Windows platform."

Sure there is. Scratch, DVS Clipster, Episode Server, Quantel Pablo, all have official prores on Windows.

Full list (not categorized unfortunately) here:
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5959

The question of who gets to license the codec, in what way is entirely at Apple's discretion though. Take it up with them.

It's worth noting that in the last year we've gone from almost no officially licensed solutions to now several. So certainly the general direction is positive.

http://JuanSalvo.com
http://theColourSpace.com


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Chris Tomberlin
Re: Prores encoding available on windows but not supported by Resolve - FEATURE REQUEST
on Jun 9, 2014 at 8:55:49 pm

Glad we are generally moving in a positive direction. You say take it up with Apple, but they're not going to listen to me. Otherwise there would be a FCP 8 and the newest Mac Pro would have PCI slots. I guess I was hoping BMD could make it happen since their customers are asking for it.

Chris Tomberlin
Color/Finishing
Outpost Pictures


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Juan Salvo
Re: Prores encoding available on windows but not supported by Resolve - FEATURE REQUEST
on Jun 9, 2014 at 10:11:35 pm

[Chris Tomberlin] " I guess I was hoping BMD could make it happen since their customers are asking for it."
I'd like HP to start making OS X workstations... but it's not up to HP.

http://JuanSalvo.com
http://theColourSpace.com


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Chris Tomberlin
Re: Prores encoding available on windows but not supported by Resolve - FEATURE REQUEST
on Jun 10, 2014 at 12:33:01 am

Yes that's another whole discussion. Wouldn't it be great if Apple licensed OSX for other hardware? Anyway, what's your best guess as to why Apple sees fit to license the ProRes codec for use in Scratch but not Resolve? Did the Scratch guys just ask more politely? Or does the Scratch price point just allow them to cover the licensing expense where a $1K resolve price would not?

Chris Tomberlin
Color/Finishing
Outpost Pictures


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Alan Gordon
Re: Prores encoding available on windows but not supported by Resolve - FEATURE REQUEST
on Jun 11, 2014 at 3:59:10 pm

I've said time and again, I'd pay for an additional license for Prores encoding on Windows--Hell even if it meant having another damn dongle. Or maybe Avid just needs to step up and deliver DNX4k.


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Joakim Ziegler
Re: Prores encoding available on windows but not supported by Resolve - FEATURE REQUEST
on Jun 14, 2014 at 12:46:22 am

We pestered BMD for ProRes support in Resolve for Linux for about three years, and we finally got it now.

As far as I understand, none of these products (Resolve for Linux or other non-Apple products on non-Apple platforms) license and use the actual Apple code. Instead, the 3rd party vendor (like BMD) has to write their own ProRes implementation, according to Apple's specifications, which Apple will then test and certify, the vendor pays Apple licensing fees for the patents, etc., and then they're free to use it in their product.

This is, I think, why there are so few third party products on non-Apple platforms with ProRes support. On the other hand, BMD now already has a certified ProRes implementation on Linux, so I guess they could use that for Windows if they wanted, and if Apple would let them...

So, in conclusion, the solution that worked for us on Linux was to corner and pester BMD, specifically Peter Chamberlain, at NAB, some three or four consecutive years, and you might get lucky. :)

--
Joakim Ziegler - Postproduction Supervisor


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Bill Ravens
Re: Prores encoding available on windows but not supported by Resolve - FEATURE REQUEST
on Jun 11, 2014 at 6:33:22 pm

[Chris Tomberlin] " I guess I was hoping BMD could make it happen since their customers are asking for it."

BMD can't even agree to feed an RGB signal instead of YUV, unless one pays for HDLink. So, I rather doubt they can negotiate ProRes with Apple.



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Ryan Holmes
Re: Prores encoding available on windows but not supported by Resolve - FEATURE REQUEST
on Jun 11, 2014 at 8:10:14 pm

[Bill Ravens] "BMD can't even agree to feed an RGB signal instead of YUV, unless one pays for HDLink. So, I rather doubt they can negotiate ProRes with Apple."

^^ This! So true...

Ryan Holmes
http://www.ryanholmes.me
@CutColorPost


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Lance Bachelder
Re: Prores encoding available on windows but not supported by Resolve - FEATURE REQUEST
on Jun 11, 2014 at 8:45:47 pm

NOT? Just reporting the facts. It shows up fine in FCPX as Pro Res - no optimization needed. Sorry you can't believe that.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Bill Ravens
Re: Prores encoding available on windows but not supported by Resolve - FEATURE REQUEST
on Jun 11, 2014 at 10:38:27 pm
Last Edited By Bill Ravens on Jun 11, 2014 at 10:40:51 pm

In all fairness, I felt I had to define the specifics of what was experienced with the Miraizon codec. It is possible to record to ProRes with a Convergent Design O7Q. Before loading the Miraizon codec, O7Q files playback without a problem. After installation of the Miraizon codec, O7Q files won't play back. Not sure about other problems, if any. Perhaps this is a very specific problem.

Since Apple certifies all uses of its Prores codec, and the Miraizon codec is a reverse engineered, no approved or certified version, I remain dubious and I would urge caution.



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