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Color inconsistencies Resolve vs Quicktime player

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Stepan Ko
Color inconsistencies Resolve vs Quicktime player
on Jan 18, 2014 at 12:06:39 am

Hello Cow

I know there is a lot written about this particular topic and i have tried to read as much as possible but is seems that the problem stills exists. I am working in Resolve Lite 10 on a Eizo ColorEdge CG220 from the viewer. I know this is far from ideal, but this is what I have right now and it looks like the majority of work is going to be sRGB (web) output anyway so I think it's not that bad of a setup,

The problem is that I notice quite big differences between how the footage looks in resolve viewer and how it looks once rendered in Quicktime player (Prores 4444 render so that shouldn't effect the result). It seems that in Resolve the footage looks less saturated and less magenta.

In this thread:http://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=6557#p41049
on Blackmagic forum it seems that the person has had a similar problem and eventually found a way around this, which is to calibrate his monitor to the working space (sRGB in my situation) rather than the monitor native colour space. I have done that, and although the footage looks closer to what it renders out there is still a fair amout of difference which is pretty annoying having in mind Resolve is a colour managed application and things like that that should not happen.

Does anyone have a solution?

Appreciate you answers

Stepan


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Evan Kultangwatana
Re: Color inconsistencies Resolve vs Quicktime player
on Jan 18, 2014 at 3:18:35 pm

I've had this issue while working on facilities that have yet to invest in proper video equipment. Going through it now as a matter of fact.

Decided to give up troubleshooting and accept that, when it comes down to it, there is no acceptable solution beyond a blackmagic interface, an sdi signal, and a calibrated monitor in the right viewing environment. Everything else is an embarrassing headache.

The definition of "web" color is elusive. Too many points where software code interacts with that you're seeing, and what everyone else will be seeing.


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Stepan Ko
Re: Color inconsistencies Resolve vs Quicktime player
on Jan 18, 2014 at 4:35:44 pm

It seems that you are right... Bearing in mind that differences still exist I started to think that the whole calibrate your monitor to sRGB solution outlined in the blackmagic forum is not a solution at all. The differences are just less visible due to a smaller color space, but they still exist.

I am thinking of finding some footage of a chart and running it through davinci exporting and then trying to match the waveform by applying a correction in resolve. Cause then you can just make a lut and apply it on output everytime.

The problem is that even when I import the exported .mov file back into resolve and use the reference wipe to see the differences- THERE ARE NO DIFFERENCES. So this is specifically a davinci viewer problem. So then the only way to match it (cause i can't use the resolves internal waveform) is by making screenshots and checking the values of the colors with a color picker in photoshop until I get them all right. Then again I might never get them right.


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Juan Salvo
Re: Color inconsistencies Resolve vs Quicktime player
on Jan 18, 2014 at 7:34:09 pm

[Stepan Ko] "o this is specifically a davinci viewer problem."
This is an everything viewer problem.

[Stepan Ko] "cause i can't use the resolves internal waveform"
The internal scopes are certainly accurate.

[Stepan Ko] "and checking the values of the colors with a color picker in photoshop until I get them all right. Then again I might never get them right."
You're confusing consistent with right. If the image in qt player and the resolve viewer match... the likelihood is that the one in the resolve viewer is wrong.

Resolve 10 specifically added support for a GUI Lut, so that you could (among other things) calibrate that very viewer window.

The way to go about using that would be to purchase lightspace (or now calman) and use resolve as a pattern generator, position your probe onto the GUI viewer and then proceed to profile and calibrate your display.

Have the software generate a LUT and then load that within Resolve as a GUI viewing LUT. This will prevent it from being applied elsewhere.

This will give you a "more accurate" though perhaps not entirely accurate GUI display. But, QT or other media players could well apply transforms that still make it inconsistent.

Best is a reference display, that gives you the ability to point at an image and say "this high precision, and purpose built device is showing an accurate image, other devices SHOULD, but may not, agree with it, in that case, those devices are wrong"

http://JuanSalvo.com
http://theColourSpace.com


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Stepan Ko
Re: Color inconsistencies Resolve vs Quicktime player
on Jan 18, 2014 at 9:26:05 pm

Hello Juan

Well unfortunately a reference monitor is just not going to happen right now. As much i'd love one, i have to face the facts here. Also I will look into the calman software. I might consider renting a package out. Again, I know how not ideal this is but the price seems a lot more realistic. Thank you for the great info!

All the best

Stepan


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Juan Salvo
Re: Color inconsistencies Resolve vs Quicktime player
on Jan 18, 2014 at 11:31:53 pm
Last Edited By Juan Salvo on Jan 18, 2014 at 11:55:47 pm

"Gotta do what you gotta do. Good luck!"

http://JuanSalvo.com
http://theColourSpace.com


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Margus Voll
Re: Color inconsistencies Resolve vs Quicktime player
on Jan 19, 2014 at 9:00:56 am

You still will be having 1/3 problem left this way i'd say.

Not directly your monitoring issue but i think you have to consider it as well before going nuts.

With web projects you probably will have clients that look at your work god knows
how and give you feedback that is based on variable displays.

So until you are 100% sure of your display and its accuracy no matter what you use
there is some dispute moment possible.

I see this with music videos a lot when clients are "somewhere" and do not visit your suite.

Maybe a bit off topic but this is what i have experienced over some years.

--

Margus

http://iconstudios.eu
https://vimeo.com/iconstudioseu/videos

DaVinci 10, OSX 10.8.5
MacPro 5.1 2x2,93 24GB
GUI 4000 / GPU GTX 780
DL 4K
Eizo Color
Scope Box
Full Ligthspace CMS


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Stepan Ko
Re: Color inconsistencies Resolve vs Quicktime player
on Jan 19, 2014 at 3:24:27 pm

Yes this is what I have with stills as-well. And with stills I have the possibility of saying that the monitor is in fact calibrated and checked. Shame these systems seems to be different from stills to video. Having paid for one software to maintain color consistency for photoshop and proof printing you now have to pay for a whole different package and even a different colorimeter. But then again resolve lite is free which is amazing and one can't expect everything to be free like that. Anyway thanks for the answers!


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Bill Ravens
Re: Color inconsistencies Resolve vs Quicktime player
on Jan 20, 2014 at 7:46:39 pm

FWIW, I contacted the vendor for Calman to get a workflow definition. They're still working on incorporating their cal software in Resolve, even tho' resolve 10.1 is ready for it.



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Stepan Ko
Re: Color inconsistencies Resolve vs Quicktime player
on Jan 20, 2014 at 8:11:59 pm

I've also just tried another poor mans idea. Generating 4 different 1920x1080 jpeg frames in photoshop. 255-0-0 Red 0-255-0 Green 0-0-255 Blue 255-255-255 white. Improting those into resolve and making a target in Eizo Color Navigator. It allows you to pick and option to read from any source you put the probe to (like for example paper). I've put it to the resolve viewer window and displayed the colors accordingly to what it was asking for. Well it seems that the footage still looks different (this time I had to compare to another eizo calibrated to a normal sRGB target standing right next mine). Also the inconsistencies are different in VLC and quicktime.


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Nedeem Al-Astrabadi
Re: Color inconsistencies Resolve vs Quicktime player
on Jan 22, 2014 at 12:21:26 pm

I've had this problem before and as far as I know it's a problem with Quicktime player. Open a file in QT player and VLC and see which one is closest to your Resolve GUI - it's always VLC as QT player desaturates the image (check Youtube and Vimeo and you should get the same result). Now, unfortunately VLC doesn't play Prores 4444, but it does show that you shouldn't put any trust in to the image that QT player is showing you.

http://www.nedeem.com


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