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Remote editing- cloud or otherwise

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Oliver Peters
Remote editing- cloud or otherwise
on Mar 12, 2020 at 12:00:17 am

The NAB and COVID-19 issues have brought up the idea of remote editing from the home or elsewhere via "the cloud." Here and in other forums, BeBop, Frame, Blackbird, and others have been mentioned as the wave of the future. But in reality, who here thinks that will work?

Long-distance off-line/proxy-res editing has been done for a long time, both in the cloud and other ways. Ultimately you have to deal with native master files. No one is realistically going to put 40TB (or more) of 4K ProRes4444 or HQ media in the cloud. So unless you simply want to work with a specific editor in another locale - or you have a team spread around different cities - how do you see that working?

On top of that, the idea of an offline/online workflow where someone else does your finishing is so far removed from the majority of the industry today. What are the thoughts here?

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Neil Goodman
Re: Remote editing- cloud or otherwise
on Mar 12, 2020 at 7:28:46 pm

i think it could theoretically work for us. we send out to another building down the street for finishing and all the computers and storage are already in that building so we are already on a remote-ish type setup.. we do dnx36 for everything already. Wether anyone will be able to acess that from home is another story.

What i think will be a more complicated issue for my industry is security. MPAA would have to install security in, and audit every home where an editor may be working remotely. Because we at times we will work on Marvel stuff, I have a keycard just to get into my editbay. There not going to let all these unrelesed films and tv shows out into thewild - thats for sure.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Remote editing- cloud or otherwise
on Mar 12, 2020 at 7:43:25 pm

[Neil Goodman] "What i think will be a more complicated issue for my industry is security. "

I've had acquaintances in the music industry and working at defense contractor sites. This goes back a few years, but it was not uncommon for them to remove and lock up system and media hard drives at the end of each day.

[Neil Goodman] "we do dnx36 for everything already."

Aside from the security issue, moving media around and remotely collaborating is easy when proxy media is involved. PostLab is an option for FCPX, but for now their media still has to be local.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Remote editing- cloud or otherwise
on Mar 12, 2020 at 9:31:24 pm

If you have SNS EVO storage they have written a utility to collect the proxies generated by the server for editing use.

https://support.studionetworksolutions.com/hc/en-us/articles/360040845811


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Brett Sherman
Re: Remote editing- cloud or otherwise
on Mar 14, 2020 at 5:21:28 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "If you have SNS EVO storage they have written a utility to collect the proxies generated by the server for editing use."

FCP X Proxies are still rather large in file size. I would love if Frame.IO ACTUALLY decided to become a collaboration tool and not just a client comment tool. This is what I would want from a online collaboration tool:

Take FCP X Project and generate highly compressed proxy media (H.264) with customizable trim handles. Automated upload and download of proxy media. Generate an XML file that automatically relinks media files to proxy media. And when returning project, XML relinks to original media. Package Motion Templates used. I don't know why this isn't within the realm of possible.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Remote editing- cloud or otherwise
on Mar 14, 2020 at 6:37:57 pm

[Brett Sherman] "FCP X Proxies are still rather large in file size."

Indeed, but this is not FCPX ProRes Proxy, this is small proxy files generated by the server itself for the built in asset viewer the EVO provides (it's called ShareBrowser). They are really small, our entire current 50+TBs has a total proxy file size of around 400GBs.

[Brett Sherman] "Take FCP X Project and generate highly compressed proxy media (H.264) with customizable trim handles. Automated upload and download of proxy media. Generate an XML file that automatically relinks media files to proxy media. And when returning project, XML relinks to original media. Package Motion Templates used. I don't know why this isn't within the realm of possible."

Something like this is available with Postlab. You would have to create the proxies, though, with Compressor using a setting that is efficient enough for you and passthrough audio. It's too bad you can't compress the audio as well.


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Neil Goodman
Re: Remote editing- cloud or otherwise
on Mar 12, 2020 at 11:34:30 pm

Yea, i think we'd be fine if not for the security aspects.


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Rich Rubasch
Re: Remote editing- cloud or otherwise
on Mar 14, 2020 at 6:21:26 pm

Where is H265 or other codec in all this? Have we reached the limit of what compression techniques can net on watchable proxy or offline clips? It seems like the solution is more like a simple controller. All media and processing takes place at a remote system with lots of horsepower. The connecting to it remotely the only thing I am doing is sending keystrokes, the remote system does the heavy lifting, encodes the resulting clip on the fly and sends me a very low rez streaming output in realtime. In other words I'm just controlling the remote system. I need enough bandwidth to send my keyboard or mouse commands, the remote system handles all processing and footage I/O and the remote system also sends me a highly compressed streaming clip to see my results.

Is there any system that works this way?

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production, Post, Studio Sound Stage
Founder/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
http://www.tiltmedia.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Remote editing- cloud or otherwise
on Mar 14, 2020 at 6:57:30 pm

[Rich Rubasch] "Where is H265 or other codec in all this?"

H265 is generally used when you exceed UHD sizes.

[Rich Rubasch] "Is there any system that works this way?"

Both Adobe Anywhere and Avid's remote solutions work this way. The hitch is that you have to purchase the infrastructure hardware. The "cloud" is made up of several servers and storage at some plant/facility that you control. Remember that if you have a multicam stream of 4 UHD camera feeds, you need server hardware at the head-end that does the real-time composite in order to send you a single stream of compressed media. So it's not just storage or the data rate of the stream.

The second hitch is how do you get that high-res material there?

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Bill Davis
Re: Remote editing- cloud or otherwise
on Mar 16, 2020 at 5:34:24 pm

I've been 100% "remote home based editing" for ALL my clients for about 5 year now.

Up until this week, maybe 10 folks used to come to me regularly to work out of my home shop as part of a virtualization of an in-person traditional production team. Now nobody does, but the work is ALL proceeding as normal.

Before, some of my typical sessions featured bouncing ideas around between the client rep, a project manager and maybe an art director here on-site.

But it's stupid simple to virtualize even that. For just a couple of collaborators, I set up one or two iDevices running FaceTime. They are on swivel arms, so I can talk to people directly, but then point the cameras at my monitor array. The res on idevices is FINE for this. In fact, if the art director needs to make a decision on something minute like type kerning or ledding, I either zoom up my screen as with any presentation situation, or just swing the "art director" device's camera in for a close-up if that works better.

If more people need to participate, I switch to Google Hangouts or Zoom.

One factor I'm extremely greatful for is that I did a significant sound treatment to my home office so that the open mics from these devices don't sound like I'm stuck in reverb city.

Basically, tho - all this has allowed me to work utterly uninterrupted.

Just my 2 cents.

Stay safe out there.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Remote editing- cloud or otherwise
on Mar 16, 2020 at 5:45:02 pm

[Bill Davis] "I've been 100% "remote home based editing" for ALL my clients for about 5 year now."

That's easy because you are a "one man band" operation (no offense meant by that description). I don't think you are the only one that works this way. Clients can send/ship you drives with original, native media and you can upload review and final copies. And of course, this isn't cloud-based editing. But what about shops working with multiple editors, graphics, sound, etc in a fixed facility? Even if that's just 2 or 3 people. How do they shift to working off-site?

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Rich Rubasch
Re: Remote editing- cloud or otherwise
on Mar 17, 2020 at 12:56:29 am

Another scenario is I have clients who work with several editors at a time on a project that uses the same footage (years of archived footage) and we are all using the same footage. Several editors that live in different parts of the same city. We hand off hard drives, all have the same footage and our own project files etc.

I think the issue of sharing projects and media and sequences is the myriad of ways to configure systems, Mac and PC OS and plugins.

We are a long way off.

Bill's not, apparently.

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production, Post, Studio Sound Stage
Founder/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
http://www.tiltmedia.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Remote editing- cloud or otherwise
on Mar 17, 2020 at 1:15:56 am

[Rich Rubasch] "We hand off hard drives, all have the same footage and our own project files etc."

If all they are doing is creative cutting and then only one person handles the finishing with high-res media, you can use something like Frame to move low-res proxies between you and them. Saves the time it takes to copy multiple sets of drives.

[Rich Rubasch] "I think the issue of sharing projects and media and sequences is the myriad of ways to configure systems, Mac and PC OS and plugins."

Yep. Plug-ins are usually the issue. The best way is to limit everyone to a stock set of common plug-ins, such as the stock install, or a build of BCC or similar. The best set of stock plug-ins comes with Resolve.

[Rich Rubasch] "Bill's not, apparently."

Bill is self-contained. He's not collaborating with other editors that I know of. Just R&A with the client.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Remote editing- cloud or otherwise
on Mar 17, 2020 at 12:30:51 pm
Last Edited By Oliver Peters on Mar 17, 2020 at 2:30:29 pm

Bunch of resources and links - see new thread above

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Morten Carlsen
Re: Remote editing- cloud or otherwise
on Mar 18, 2020 at 11:36:18 am

[Oliver Peters] "But in reality, who here thinks that will work?"

I don't.


Aside from the Video Size Factor the social factor plays a part. If we all do home office we might as well never leave home and all the momentum coming from working live with other people will vanish....

Been doing lots of remote stuff in the audio branch and although the files are smaller I HATE it.
Being in the studio with talent is so much more rewarding than seeing them on a CPU monitor because they are half-way across the world -)

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