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The end is near for Sony Vegas

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Joel Mielle
The end is near for Sony Vegas
on Jun 9, 2011 at 11:51:54 am

I'm still a big fan (Since version 4.0) and daily user of Sony Vegas Pro, In fact I'm editing a feature film on it right now. But alas I feel the end is near. With Premiere aggressively taking on the world and now Apple releasing Final Cut X at $299, I feel that I'm ready to also switch or get left behind. Magic bullets no longer support Vegas in 64 bit, and others are following suit. I'm unsure how everyone else feels but the other twosome are starting to look pretty awesome. It's been a good 10 years but all good things come to an end. Now which one? Premier or FCX?

Filmmaker http://www.sixlovers.com


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Scott Francis
Re: The end is near for Sony Vegas
on Jun 9, 2011 at 12:28:17 pm

I think it's demise is not gonna happen, especially with working in conjunction with AMD, Boris, NewBlueFX, and Prodad....there are more than just Magic Bullets...Just my 2 cents.

Scott Francis
Mind's Eye Audio/Video Productions


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Steve Rhoden
Re: The end is near for Sony Vegas
on Jun 9, 2011 at 1:07:29 pm

Will you guys give the doom and destruction of Sony Vegas
a rest..If someone wants to switch that's entirely their business.
Vegas aint going nowhere, how many times are we gonna go down this road.

Steve Rhoden
(Cow Leader)
Film Maker
Filmex Creative Media.
1-876-832-4956





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Joel Mielle
Re: The end is near for Sony Vegas
on Jun 10, 2011 at 1:38:51 am

It's not a matter of doom and destruction of Vegas, Vegas is part of my anatomy! it's a matter of facing the facts. Apple can afford to charge $299 for FCPX, it's the industry standard, Sony could never compete with so little sales in comparison. Vegas was always easier to use and had great features that made it into an easy to learn and fast to use package. That was its edge, plus resonably priced. FCPX does all that plus a lot more now and it's industry standard. I see the future of Vegas becoming a small time editor for home use at $99 if its to even exist. But professionally I can't see it surviving unless Sony has some sort of magic bullet.

Filmmaker http://www.sixlovers.com


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Chuck Pullen
Re: The end is near for Sony Vegas
on Jun 9, 2011 at 1:19:54 pm

Joel, if you haven't already, please read the thread from a couple of days ago "Painful day with multicamera" Whenever I talk about Sony Vegas at this point, I feel like Dr. Bruce trying to keep myself from turning green and flipping cars over. People like Al and I have been having more issues than we can count, been dealing with the same "reproducible" bugs over and over again, and have gotten zero response from Sony for the past couple of years besides "Clean out your registry"

If you go over to the AJA Ki Pro forum for instance, AJA support answers just about EVERY ISSUE that anyone has with their products within hours if not minutes. Dozens of people have been reporting the exact same errors, and we all have to quote Al "The system of mine is immensely stable" top of the line systems with ZERO issues outside of Vegas.

My personal issues started getting out of hand when I built a 64 bit system and purchased version 9. I have post-it notes with things I CANNOT DO with Vegas, and my workarounds using Premiere and other third party software to do the dirty work for Vegas just so that I can cut a quick multicamera video. I purchased version 10 A, B, C, and now D all have the exact same bugs... SOME OF THE BUGS HAVE GOTTEN WORSE IMHO!

Here's my plan Joel if you are interested. I purchased a Quadro card for the Adobe Suite, and plan on building a dual boot rig so I can run both FCP X. Between the two I can totally eliminate Vegas from my workflow. Will I miss it? Sure! I miss what Vegas USED TO do well, I will miss what it is SUPPOSED to be able to do.

Will I miss submitting LITERALLY DOZENS of crash reports on a daily basis? HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Bob Peterson
Re: The end is near for Sony Vegas
on Jun 9, 2011 at 2:00:42 pm

I am curious how you plan to build a dual boot system to run FCP. The last I heard, Apple won't sell you their OS, or allow you to use it on anything except a machine that Apple makes. Am I missing something?


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Chuck Pullen
Re: The end is near for Sony Vegas
on Jun 9, 2011 at 2:21:26 pm

[Bob Peterson] "I am curious how you plan to build a dual boot system to run FCP. The last I heard, Apple won't sell you their OS, or allow you to use it on anything except a machine that Apple makes. Am I missing something?"

I didn't know it was possible either until recently Bob. I can't tell you how to do it, but Google can. This isn't some hacker thing, and it seemed surprisingly stable. I actually first saw this in practice on several machines at a network affiliate in a major market. They cut with FCP on the Mac drive, then would reboot in Windows to work with the Adobe Suite.

Chuck


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Stephen Mann
Re: The end is near for Sony Vegas
on Jun 9, 2011 at 4:52:40 pm

As I've said before, unless you can provide step-by-step instructions for someone else to independently reproduce your issue, then the problem is more likely a problem in your PC, not in Vegas.

If Tech Support cannot reproduce your issue, they can't fix it. And they aren't there to fix your PC.

Steve Mann
MannMade Digital Video
http://www.mmdv.com


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Jay Allen
Re: The end is near for Sony Vegas
on Jun 10, 2011 at 12:00:21 am

I feel your pain! I have been a vegas user since version 3,and yes each version gets more bugs.
With that said, all nle's have more bugs with each release.just as the news today can only talk about wiener,
NLE's can only talk about 3d and the next new add on we don't want. So what I'm saying is as much as I hate the crashes and bugs there is not a great nle to switch to.



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John Rofrano
Re: The end is near for Sony Vegas
on Jun 9, 2011 at 2:00:19 pm

[Joel Mielle] " With Premiere aggressively taking on the world and now Apple releasing Final Cut X at $299, I feel that I'm ready to also switch or get left behind."
I have Premiere Pro CS5 just because I bought the CS5 Suite because I wanted After Effects, Illustrator, and Photoshop and I never use Premiere. It is totally unintuitive to me and I could never do the audio work in Premiere that I do in Vegas so I don't see how it's taking on anything.

FCP X is finally getting some of the features that Vegas has had for years. I don't see any need to switch to it since Vegas already does it better. Besides, FCP X requires a Mac so that's not an option for PC users.
[Joel Mielle] "Magic bullets no longer support Vegas in 64 bit, and others are following suit."
Who is following suit? Can you name anyone?

I don't see anyone else dropping support for Vegas in fact I see more plug-in support coming with Boris Continuum Complete 7, and updated Boris RED 5 and GenArts Saphire Edge, etc. GenArts is a huge special FX company that is making more of their plug-ins available for Vegas Pro. If anything Vegas Pro 10 has MORE plug-in support that any other version of Vegas. Magic Bullet is a very specialized plug-in that not many Vegas users bought (perhaps because it was so slow to render) so they dropped support. That's hardly reason for alarm. It was a simple business decision based on lack of sales.

I'm sorry I'm just not seeing any end being near. Vegas remains on the cutting edge. They were the first to support HD. The first to support the RED camera. The first to support 3D. Vegas remains the leader IMHO. The fact that FCP X is now mimicking Vegas' look and feel says a lot about how out in front Vegas really is.

I know that Vegas Pro 10 has not been as stable as previous versions but sometimes that comes with adding so much new functionality like the entirely new OFX plug-in framework, 3D, etc. I don't like it anymore than you do and I do hope Sony gets it more stable quickly.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Gilles Gagnon
Re: The end is near for Sony Vegas
on Jun 9, 2011 at 2:18:28 pm

Great Thread! Great input!

I can somewhat see where Joel is coming from.

A concern of mine has been that Vegas is not the industry standard. This has caused a bit of hassles in working with the masses (FCP) in our industry.

Since Vegas is not the standard, sometimes, very good software, such as Sonic Fire Pro for music scoring, do not develop plugins for Vegas... which is unfortunate for us. From what I gather, because FC has such proliferation, community support and plugins development is far and wide... another bonus.

I'm not switching yet but I must admit, I'm increasingly interested in FCP especially since they're adapting many of the wonderful functions of Vegas. Also... I'm tempted by the stability of Macs VS Windows/PCs (better OS architecture IMO).

I realise that switching is not a simple task, therefore... I'm not quick to draw my gun.

I'm really looking forward to seeing the progress in SVP 11. I think this will tell us much as to Sony's dedication to SVP.

Cheers,

Gilles


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Monty Wentzel
Re: The end is near for Sony Vegas
on Oct 15, 2011 at 1:42:06 am

I'm seriously considering S vegas as I am SO TIRED of fcpx. I hate apple and always have, I like pc's, but everyone said fcp 7 is the way to go and yes maybe it was. Now that apple canned fcp 7 I bought X the day it came out. It's good but slows down, crashes etc.

So I'm thinking vegas. I do simple interviews but have plans to do a feature real soon. Can't do a feature on fcpx, it would die.

I read vegas is fast to learn and fast to edit with...

Tell me some good stuff about vegas

Monty


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John Rofrano
Re: The end is near for Sony Vegas
on Oct 16, 2011 at 4:09:14 pm

[Monty Wentzel] "Tell me some good stuff about vegas"
Download the 30-day free trial and use it for 30 days. That should convince you of how easy it is. Many things are done right on the timeline so if you are use to other apps that make you hunt for menu items it may seem odd at first, but once you get use to directly manipulating video on the timeline as if it were "clay" you'll come to understand what a time saver this is.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Monty Wentzel
Re: The end is near for Sony Vegas
on Oct 16, 2011 at 6:46:24 pm

I will thanks...

Monty


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Seth Estrada
Re: The end is near for Sony Vegas
on Jun 9, 2011 at 4:37:02 pm

This is an old sentiment, shared by many. However, it's not true. Vegas has been a pioneer in so many areas, not the least of which is the YouTube generation, which will out-buy any number of post houses combined. That cash is furthering development of Vegas Pro. I have yet to read as much for Premier or FCP.

But speaking of post-houses, have you heard that Vegas supports the OFX plugin standard? Did you know that numerous high-end FX plugin manufacturers already have OFX plugins that can be used in Vegas? Did you know that Magic Bullet isn't the only FX game in town?

No, the sky is not falling. Just make your choice, and try to be as happy as you can with the next suite of problems you purchase, whether it be Apple or Adobe. Non are perfect, and none are going away.


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Brett Cole
Re: The end is near for Sony Vegas
on Jun 9, 2011 at 10:35:14 pm

Premiere is an abomination, right up there with Blender as one of the worst UI's ever. I love Adobe in general, PS? Dreamweaver? InDesign? - all brilliant, but next to Premiere, Vegas is like the Holy Grail.


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Greg Barringer
Re: The end is near for Sony Vegas
on Jun 10, 2011 at 3:48:57 am

This past winter I gave up on FCP 7 and now use Vegas exclusively. I have a Mac Pro running both OSX and Win7. Final Cut Studio 7 vs Vegas; IMHO Vegas wins.


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Gilles Gagnon
Re: The end is near for Sony Vegas
on Jun 10, 2011 at 11:23:53 am

Hi Greg,

I'm with you with FCP7. Although I don't have it, I've used it and have taken editing/filmin courses that use it. I also found it a real pain and unintuitive to use compared to Vegas. And so slow to use... this whole render thing.

However, it's the advancements in FCPX that prompted Joel to start this thread...and may make me switch. and the price.... can't beat it. $300 for an industry standard/professional NLE.

by the way, I've never taken a course which featured Vegas as the editing suite. Always FCP. again, for obvious reasons.

Don't get me wrong, I've loved Vegas but FCPX seems to promise to close the gap for me and negate my previous reservations from migrating to it.

Gilles


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Greg Barringer
Re: The end is near for Sony Vegas
on Jun 10, 2011 at 12:03:16 pm

Thanks Gilles, I wonder if the new DVD Studio Pro will support and burn BD?


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Gilles Gagnon
Re: The end is near for Sony Vegas
on Jun 10, 2011 at 12:49:48 pm

Hi Greg,

I would be surprised if it didn't.

Gilles


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John Rofrano
Re: The end is near for Sony Vegas
on Jun 10, 2011 at 1:49:32 pm

[Gilles Gagnon] "can't beat it. $300 for an industry standard/professional NLE."
You forgot to add the $2,000 dongle called a "Mac"... lol ;-)

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Gilles Gagnon
Re: The end is near for Sony Vegas
on Jun 10, 2011 at 1:54:22 pm

That's funny John :)

Love your sense of humour!

Well engineered dongle though... doesn't start to slow down over time and apps are not installed all over the hd but compartmentalized. :)

Gilles


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Greg Barringer
Re: The end is near for Sony Vegas
on Jun 10, 2011 at 3:28:36 pm

Lack of professional BD authoring is my largest frustration with Apple products.


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John Rofrano
Re: The end is near for Sony Vegas
on Jun 10, 2011 at 5:50:41 pm

[Gilles Gagnon] "Well engineered dongle though... doesn't start to slow down over time and apps are not installed all over the hd but compartmentalized. :)"
I can't argue with you there. I run Ubuntu Linux on my laptop because I hate Windows with a passion. I run it in a virtual machine only when needed. It is the worst OS design I've ever seen but it's a necessary evil. Windows 7 has gotten better, but it's no match for a Unix based OS like Linux or Mac OS.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Steve Rhoden
Re: The end is near for Sony Vegas
on Jun 10, 2011 at 7:20:41 pm

Also John, Windows Vista made me nauseous, what a mess
that was....Though Windows 7 isn't perfect, i breathe a sigh of
relief when it came.

Anyway, Now back to this Final Cut X Forum.......



......OHH, I meant Vegas.

Steve Rhoden
(Cow Leader)
Film Maker
Filmex Creative Media.
1-876-832-4956





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Joe Mantaratz
Re: The end is near for Sony Vegas
on Jun 11, 2011 at 6:38:17 pm

I think the $2000 probably is on the low end when you have to consider that Apple only really plays nice with Apple. Of course by design and to encapsulate the market and pass out the Kool Aid for the masses.

This discussion is such a hot topic one would think a world peace solution would be easier to solve than this. Bottom line is Apple markets heavier than anyone and are in the schools and in almost every TV show that I have ever seen,,,etc. Of course we all believe it is a better product. Why not? They have told us as such a million times over so it must be true.

For most of us we use what elements work for us not matter where they come from. I too have Apple and PC...a switch between both...some things I like on one and not the other...vice versa.

Now What About Osama???


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Dave Haynie
Re: The end is near for Sony Vegas
on Jun 15, 2011 at 6:32:18 am

Apple can charge less for the NLE, because they seriously overcharge for the PC. That $2,000 isn't quite enough to get you an iMac with 21.5" screen with enough features for basic editing (eg, i7 quad, 8GB, 2TB HDD)... and I would honestly go bonkers doing any kind of real work on a single screen that small. If you want the 27" screen, you're already over $2500.

I paid only about $450 for my last PC upgrade, which included 8GB DRAM and an AMD 6-core processor... largely because I could keep every other piece of the system, I didn't need to upgrade everything.

And what you really want for serious video work is a Mac Pro.. which starts at $2500, without the monitor. And neither will do Blu-ray... you still need to buy Adobe CS if you need to do BDs. And a drive.

It's also interesting that, even after they announced FCP Pro X at $299 (via the Mac App Store only, and just FCP alone, none of the other tools in the usual Studio bundle: Soundtrack Pro, Motion, Color, Compressor, and DVD Studio Pro), they're still bundling Final Cut Express 4 for $199 with new Macs. At least Final Cut X is FINALLY 64-bit.. even Adobe there already. They're also now supporting 4K editing, another thing Vegas has done for awhile. This is the first time since 2007 that FCP was available outside the bundle... I think that's the real news.

Also, consider that currently at least, the App Store doesn't have an upgrade option -- you buy each version completely new, at the full list price. Apple's move to the App Store is more than likely a permanent one; they're taking FCP out of the traditional retail chain, and thus, Apple's getting 100% of the profit on it, with zero materials cost, zero stocking issues, etc. So some of the savings pass on to the user, at least for the first buy. For the future... who knows? And given the unbundling, I do wonder if this is really much of a price drop at all, though certainly compelling to an editor lusting after FCP but not concerned about the other "Studio" components... it was $999 for the whole Studio package, now $299 just for FCP.

Interesting viewpoint from an FCP user here: http://www.mikejones.tv/journal/2011/4/13/new-fcp-x-is-really-not-so-new.ht.... He's basically suggesting that FCP has finally caught up, and thus, he won't have to dump it. May well be that the grass is always greener... well, somewhere else.

-Dave


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Marie-Claude Sauvé
Re: The end is near for Sony Vegas
on Jul 8, 2011 at 6:56:03 pm

''This past winter I gave up on FCP 7 and now use Vegas exclusively. I have a Mac Pro running both OSX and Win7. Final Cut Studio 7 vs Vegas; IMHO Vegas wins.''


Hi Greg,

I'm in PC but plan to change for a iMac Intel quad-Core i-7.
Can you tell me what you use for running sony vegas on your Mac?
I need to keep Vegas 9.0 for editing and rendering 30 min. HD magazine for a local TV.
What do you recommand? Parralels?

Your advice is important for me, because I have to decide if I stay in PC or go for Mac.
Thank you

Marie-Claude http://www.deve.ca


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Greg Barringer
Re: The end is near for Sony Vegas
on Jul 8, 2011 at 9:46:57 pm

I'm using a Mac Pro, eight core. I have an internal 2TB Western Digital Black Caviar HDD dedicated to Win7 Pro 64 bit and Vegas 10d. Windows is installed using Boot Camp. I'm happy with it. Parralels runs both operating systems at the same time so it's not going to be as fast.


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Larry Brewer
Re: The end is near for Sony Vegas
on Aug 26, 2011 at 4:22:09 pm

As a video professional, I can't see the price difference of a mere $200 between the 2 editing platforms being much of an incentive to drop one and go with the other. The initial cost of the NLE software has been a non-factor for quite some time.

And if I had ever been tempted to move from Vegas to FCP it certainly wouldn't have been after the release of FCPx. Or haven't you read the reviews?


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Joel Mielle
Re: The end is near for Sony Vegas
on Aug 26, 2011 at 9:53:45 pm

This announcement was posted prior to the release of FCPX, I'm a long time fan of Sony Vegas but he fact that they have removed the XML export options in the 64bit version indicates to me that they are not serious in pursuing this as a pro package. I hope I'm wrong but they're doing the same as Apple. Just in case, I've recently taken up the Adobe offer of creative suite. I must say that Premiere is so much harder to use than Vegas at first glance but it does appear more professional, but I'm not a big fan so far. This may change but I would prefer that Sony can get it together as color grading in Vegas is hopeless, and Resolve doesn't support PCs, Magic Bullets doesn't support Vegas any longer and I can't export my projects to colorise in external pro packages, then unless there's a super update, I cannot continue with Vegas purely for that one reason.

Filmmaker http://www.sixlovers.com


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Dave Haynie
Re: The end is near for Sony Vegas
on Aug 27, 2011 at 6:40:10 am

I had not even noticed that until now... what IS the deal with AAF export being gone from Vegas 64-bit. This isn't a Vegas 9/10 thing... it follows the 64-bit version of the program.

So, that got me curious. I looked up the AAF stuff. The Advanced Authoring Format is a project of the Advanced Media Workflow Association. The AAF support libraries live over top the Microsoft Structured Storage System, but the main APIs are managed as a project on SourceForge by the AMWA.

And guess what... they don't have a 64-bit version of the AAF libraries yet. Last year, they had targeted this for November, but as of this June, they still did not have a supported 64-bit version, for Windows or for MacOS. I'm fairly certain this is the only reason Vegas 64-bit doesn't have AAF support.

Sure, Sony could do the work themselves, but it's less critical, given that I can load up any Vegas project in 32-bit Vegas as produce the AAF file I need. Presumably, this is just what Adobe did for AAF support in Premiere CS5/CS5.5, which has no 32-bit alternative. The AAF SDK is distributed under what looks like a version of the Apache license. If Adobe made changes to the code, they have to supply that code back to the AMWA, but they don't have to post it themselves.

So this is very clearly NOT anything like "let's remove all professional features and concentrate on the prosumer" as we've seen in FCP-X. I used Premiere in the past... not a fan, not even remotely. And it's only Premiere that's evil... I love Photoshop.

However, I think Sony needs to get their act together on some things Premiere does very well -- in particular, Premiere's high speed "Mercury Playback Engine", which puts Vegas editing speed to shame on MPEG and AVC native edits. And this, from a program that didn't even handle native edits, not too long ago.

-Dave


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John Rofrano
Re: The end is near for Sony Vegas
on Aug 27, 2011 at 3:33:54 pm

[Joel Mielle] "Magic Bullets doesn't support Vegas any longer and I can't export my projects to colorise in external pro packages, then unless there's a super update, I cannot continue with Vegas purely for that one reason."
Magic Bullet Looks 1.4 works perfectly fine in Vegas Pro 10 32-bit. It's just not supported by Red Giant. Go complain to Red Giant about abandoning their customers. Sony had nothing to do with this. They brought it on themselves by ignoring 64-bit Vegas for 3 years and then complaining that no one was buying their plug-in. Well... duh... we all moved on to 64-bit three years ago and can't use it anymore.

If you want film looks in Vegas Pro 64-bit try Boris BCC7 Film Process, or GenArts Sapphire Edge Film Style, or VASST ReelPaks. If you can't live without Magic Bullet then switch to an NLE that they support.

The bottom line is that the pretense of this thread is bogus. Just because one plug-in maker dropped support for Vegas because they couldn't sell enough copies of one plug-in does not signal the end of anything. As I stated earlier, several more plug-in makers have joined Vegas with an exceptional collection of new plug-ins. I'm sorry to see Red Giant leave because they really do have a very intuitive product, but I'm not switching NLE's over of it.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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