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Do Sony Want Vegas to be taken seriously?

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Ben Edwards
Do Sony Want Vegas to be taken seriously?
on Jan 7, 2011 at 1:22:05 pm

I should first state that I am a (I was going to say Avid) Vegas Pro User. I don't quite understand why they don't add the features that are missing for Film and collaboration, instead they seem to think we all want 3D. There seems to be a consensus that Vegas is the best NLE for Solo Video Projects but FCP/Avid are much better for Film/Large Collaborations. Is this what Sony want? Whay dont they add the feture that film cutters want.

What I don't quite get is that even from a marketing perspective this would make seance as cutting films can be used very positively from a marketing perceptive. The only film I have come across with a cinematic release is Paranormal Activity and this hardly counts as it was suposed to look like amitor video.

Would be interested in peoples think,
Ben


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Ben Edwards
Would we rather 3D or EDL etc.
on Jan 7, 2011 at 4:02:54 pm

This is probably a better subject, previous one was a little reactionary;).


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John Rofrano
Re: Would we rather 3D or EDL etc.
on Jan 7, 2011 at 5:01:58 pm

[Ben Edwards] " There seems to be a consensus that Vegas is the best NLE for Solo Video Projects but FCP/Avid are much better for Film/Large Collaborations. Is this what Sony want?"
Are you suggesting that FCP & Avid can interchange files better than Vegas? From what I've read, no NLE makes it easy to transfer footage to another NLE. There are 3rd party programs like Automatic Duck that do this but the NLE's themselves don't take kindly to each other.

Or were you referring to something else?

BTW, as far as I can tell, 3D is aimed squarely at film makers because no one else is doing 3D. So the whole 3D strategy is to attract more film makers.

[Ben Edwards] "Whay dont they add the feture that film cutters want."
What features are those?

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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John Rofrano
Re: Would we rather 3D or EDL etc.
on Jan 7, 2011 at 10:18:02 pm

BTW, this is a story from the CES show that I read today:
January 7, 2011
Consumer Camcorders Proliferate in Stereo at CES
News reports from the Consumer Electronics Show indicate that 3D is a big topic of discussion this year, although sales of 3D TV sets are disappointing. What is getting the attention in 3D? 3D cameras, of course. Sony, Panasonic, and JVC all showed consumer-friendly 3D cameras at the show...
Apparently Sony might be on to something even in the consumer space (even though you and I could care less). ;-)

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Ben Edwards
Re: Would we rather 3D or EDL etc.
on Jan 7, 2011 at 10:37:03 pm

John,

I think being able to create EDLs to transfer to other systems like Avid and FCP. I believe it is possible to move between FCP and Avid. I think the collaboration tools may be more of an issue. I am no workflow but it seems FCP/Avid are a lot better at this.

I know there is a lot of politics around using Vegas feature films but is this the only reason. I have noticed that as the amount of footage increased things do slow down a lot. Not sure how long it would take to load a project with 30-100 hours footage.

I am not sure when 3D will hit the indy market. Personally I am interested in documentary so it is a long way off.

Vegas not being ideal for large collaborative projects was something I have herd several times.

Personaly the only thing I find lacking is the title tool. I remember it being a breeze to do rolling credits with fetherd edges in FCP 5 years ago. I found Vegas verry fidely and did not find a strightforward way or fethering credit roll.

Ben


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John Rofrano
Re: Would we rather 3D or EDL etc.
on Jan 7, 2011 at 10:57:53 pm

Well... Vegas can create Edit Protocol Compliant AAF files and Avid Legacy AAF files. I don't know how many protocols people expect it to support. I think people say that it's not good for collaboration because they all use FCP or the all use Avid (or a little of both) and there isn't enough shops that use Vegas to collaborate with. If Avid and FCP were so good at collaboration, companies like Automatic Duck would be out of business, but they are not and their tools are not cheap so I've got to believe that Avid and FCP are no better than Vegas. It's just that everyone already uses FCP and Avid.

I run into a lot of post houses that use FCP and they have an extremely difficult time working with anything except other FCP users (i.e., if you can give them an Apple ProRes file they can't work with you). There was just a post in the Sony forum today where Avid was telling customers to download the trial of Vegas to import some AVCHD files and convert them! I think the grass looks greener to you but it really isn't when you get over there.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Steve Rhoden
Re: Would we rather 3D or EDL etc.
on Jan 7, 2011 at 11:45:21 pm

Rofrano: (I think the grass looks greener to you but it really isn't when you get over there)....Trust me Ben, that is true.

Steve Rhoden
(Cow Leader)
Creative Arts Director and Film Maker.
Project Samples at:
http://www.youtube.com/hentys



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Rob Franks
Re: Would we rather 3D or EDL etc.
on Jan 8, 2011 at 12:12:56 am

I have Avid MC5 and while it edits video extremely well... that's about all it does. Its input/output is hideous to say the best.

There is a thread going on right now on the Avid forums on how to get avchd into MC. The thread is nothing short of comical. One suggestion in fact is to download the trial of Vegas, import your mts files then export as mxf for import to MC. They seem to be impressed with the fact that through a lot of trial and error they have narrowed the avchd import time down to 3 to 1. In other words 3 times real time... or 3 times SLOWER than capturing hdv. Now imagine that... a $2500 program and people are talking about picking up Vegas in order to complete MC.

Did you know that you can't even import a native mpeg without transcoding or running through AMA?

MC's audio section pales in comparison to Vegas's

Avid DVD which comes with MC is done by Sonic as is the same as Roxio's DVDit Pro HD. Support has all but evaporated on it. It's no where near as good as Sony's DVDa either

Don't get me wrong.... MC is an excellent cutting tool... but that's all you're getting for your $2500.

Now I sure do wish Sony would have added something like motion tracking long before they added 3D abilities but then on the other hand (and just for example), Vegas is the only NLE that comes with a CERTIFIED pro level Dolby Digital encoder right out of the box... and that's not cheap.

While MC can run circles around Vegas on the cutting field, Vegas outdoes MC on just about every other front. That's pretty good for a program that's 5 times as cheap.


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Steve Rhoden
Re: Would we rather 3D or EDL etc.
on Jan 8, 2011 at 4:27:40 am

Thanks for that clear cut comparison Rob....i could add a bit more,
but i guess thats enough for the moment.

Steve Rhoden
(Cow Leader)
Creative Arts Director and Film Maker.
Project Samples at:
http://www.youtube.com/hentys



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Bob Peterson
Re: Would we rather 3D or EDL etc.
on Jan 8, 2011 at 11:18:27 pm

Chuckle. I took an intro FCP course about a year ago. The teacher, a bright young documentary maker, suggested that we download some public domain clips for use in our projects. She had no idea that FCP cannot use mpeg files. That option was quickly dropped with no explanation. She was, however, quite sure that FCP is superior to Vegas. After all, it runs on the Mac and everyone she knew was quite sure that FCP is the king of the hill.

I found FCP cumbersome and VERY wanting in both video and audio capabilities.


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Alf Hanna
Re: Would we rather 3D or EDL etc.
on Jan 14, 2011 at 10:27:51 am

Ah, sleepless in the NW. I use both Vegas and FCP, and would add to this thread that collaboration is overrated. From what I've seen, you either are all one thing in your project or the other. Perhaps down in Hollywood you find large teams cutting with different tools,blythly using EDL, but up here, people buy one product and stick with it during projects. The real agravation is from the 'demand' in the FCP world to get everything to ProRes. However, I've got friends who are envious of my ability to throw a variety of things on the timeline and get the project done faster than they do. Hours matter in small work and large. Some are right now trialing CS5 for just that reason and seriously looking to leave FCP. Long term users that is. I currently had to edit in FCP because my hired second cameraman was using a JVC and his format was native to FCP. It was easier to just fire up the Apple than transcode everything he shot. I don't think EDL would help many people, and from what I've read, it's prone to it's own incompatabilities. Whatever....it's not a requirement for my work, it's just easier to work on whatever is needed. Its no sin to have two different tools for whatever job comes your way. Most of us have two different cameras...their just tools. nite all..

Alf


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John Rofrano
Re: Would we rather 3D or EDL etc.
on Jan 14, 2011 at 11:52:13 am

[Alf Hanna] " The real agravation is from the 'demand' in the FCP world to get everything to ProRes."
I second that statement. It is extremely bold and arrogant to demand that everyone supply their footage in a proprietary format that can only be created in FCP on a Mac. Apple is the most uncollaborative platform I have ever seen. You can collaborate as long as everyone else has a Mac and uses FCP. That's not collaboration in my book.
[Alf Hanna] " I don't think EDL would help many people, and from what I've read, it's prone to it's own incompatabilities."
As the name implies, it is only an Edit Decision List and only transfers edits to the source. No FX or anything else. So it is of minimal value very early in the editing stage before any color correction or any other FX.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Carlton Rahmani
Re: Would we rather 3D or EDL etc.
on Mar 10, 2011 at 2:30:39 am

I'm a big Vegas fan--versions 7, 9, & 10, which I only got because it uses the GPU; I don't care for 3D myself--and personally aspire to one day break the FCP/Avid panopoly on cinema using Vegas (but that's another story). But something quick I want to chime in on, here, is not recently I checked in on one of Sony's media websites for curiosity's sake. Basically I wanted to see if ANYTHING media created by Sony uses Sony Vegas. Only position I saw looking for an editor--something with commercials or something--required FCP.
Now, I'm not one to say that corporate mentality HAS to be incestuous, but. . .man!
That is all. . .


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