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Lagarith - Cineform - Uncompressed - WMV tests

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David Timar
Lagarith - Cineform - Uncompressed - WMV tests
on Aug 7, 2007 at 10:39:44 pm

Hello everybody!

During the last months I did many tests for conversion/cross-conversion reasons, and I thought I would share all my facts with those looking for such

information.

The original sources were raw M2T files, recorded at 720p@50fps with a JVC GY-HD201E.
Software used: Sony Vegas 7.0d, Lagarith codec, Cineform NEO 2K, Windows XP 32bit PRO

GENERAL INFO
Lagarith stores 24bit images
Cineform and Uncompressed stores 32bits

COLOR VALUE CHANGES
I took the M2T and converted/cross-converted it into various formats, then comparing the images and the color values on the video scope in Vegas.
Since Uncompressed and Lagarith are considered lossless, it was Cineform's compression I was interested in.


1. BETWEEN Lagarith AND Lagarith->Uncompressed (0.01% color difference)

2. BETWEEN Uncompressed AND Lagarith->Uncompressed (0.01% color difference)

3. BETWEEN Lagarith AND Uncompressed->Uncompressed (0.01% color difference)

4. BETWEEN Uncompressed AND Uncompressed->Lagarith (0.01% color difference)

5. BETWEEN Lagarith AND Cineform (0.20% color difference)
(DIFFERENCE WHEN VIEWING THE VIDEO IS NOT VISIBLE TO THE VIEWER)

6. BETWEEN Uncompressed AND Cineform (0.20% color difference)
(DIFFERENCE WHEN VIEWING THE VIDEO IS NOT VISIBLE TO THE VIEWER)

7. BETWEEN Cineform->Lagarith AND Cineform->Uncompressed (0.03% color difference)

8. BETWEEN Cineform->Lagarith AND Lagarith->Uncompressed (0.20% color difference)

9. BETWEEN Cineform->Uncompressed AND Lagarith->Uncompressed (0.20% color difference)

Conclusion: there is no visual difference between any of the above cross-conversions from M2T.

----------------------
FILE SIZES

30 sec raw m2t=72MB
30 sec raw m2t converted into cineform in sony vegas = 319MB (setting Medium HD)
30 sec raw m2t converted into lagarith in sony vegas = 659MB

-------------------------
SMALL FILE CINEFORM TEST
I converted a 5 sec raw M2T file to Cineform AVI in Sony Vegas and got the following file sizes with these settings in Cineform:
- Low: 134MB
- Medium: 139MB
- High: 151MB
- Higher: 85.7MB

Exported the same M2T file from Sony Vegas to Lagarith, and it came to 148MB.
Visually, there are no differences between any of the above formats.

-----------------
NEO 2K test


I had another 30 sec M2T file. It was 72MB RAW.
I converted this to:
- Cineform (Higher HD) in Sony Vegas: 384MB
- Cineform (High) AVI in HDLINK: 327MB
- Cineform (High) MOV in HDLINK: 326MB
- Cineform (FilmScan) AVI in HDLINK: 327MB

------------------
PROBLEMS WITH NEO2K

As soon as anything passes through HDLINK, the colors change dramatically, as if it jumped from Studio RGB to Computer RGB. I found no solution to this.

------------------------

ARCHIVING SOLUTION

After all these, due to the software (Sorenson Squeeze) used by my client, we had to revert to WMV to archiving.

I did a Windows Media test:
RAW M2T: 76MB (30sec)
Converted to Lagarith: 664MB (frame size 1280x860px)
Converted to Cineform (Higher HD): 435MB (frame size 1280x860px)
WMV 10MBPS (CBR 2 PASS): 43MB
WMV 20MBPS (CBR 2 PASS): 85MB
WMV 30MBPS (CBR 2 PASS): 126MB
WMV 30MBPS (CBR 2 PASS): 154MB
WMV 50MBPS (CBR 2 PASS): 178MB

We decided that a 20MBPS WMV is ideal for archiving, as there seem to be no visual deterioration from M2T to WMV.



I am kind of a test freak, so I will be posting more of my tests later on, hopefully with more explanation...


:)

David



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TerryAdrian
Re: Lagarith - Cineform - Uncompressed - WMV tests
on Aug 7, 2007 at 11:12:40 pm

David thankyou for the post!! That helps me today. I just did more test burns using Vegas capture vs. Cineform conversion and found no difference to my eye. The Cineform files were huge and my laptop did not like them in Vegas 7e. I'm not nearly convinced about Cineform at this point -unless anyone can figure out why it's not working for me.
Thanks again for the post David and love to hear more of your tests!!
t.


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DSE/Spot
Re: Lagarith - Cineform - Uncompressed - WMV tests
on Aug 8, 2007 at 12:13:05 am

You'll find a bigger difference with CineForm when you go to push color, composite, etc. If you're merely doing cuts only or light transitions, then CineForm vs native HDV likely isn't of serious value to you.

Douglas Spotted Eagle
VASST
Aerial Camera


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TerryAdrian
Re: Lagarith - Cineform - Uncompressed - WMV tests
on Aug 8, 2007 at 12:34:57 am

I'll do some tests on that now DSE, tks.


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Zarxrax
Re: Lagarith - Cineform - Uncompressed - WMV tests
on Aug 8, 2007 at 2:04:20 am

If there is even a 0.01% difference in Lagarith -> Lagarith or uncompressed -> Lagarith, then there must be some sort of bug in whatever software you are using for the conversion or the measurement :p

Lossless means lossless. 0% difference.


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