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IVTC Film and PAL

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john williams
IVTC Film and PAL
on Nov 23, 2019 at 7:54:48 pm

I shoot with a Nikon D3200 set 1920 1080 24fps PAL but when i say yes to allow all media to match the first then it becomes 23.976 IVTC Film in the properties. I am trying to have a somewhat film look so that is why i am set to 24fps PAL. What is this IVTC Film? As far as I understand it is for NTSC


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Mike Kujbida
Re: IVTC Film and PAL
on Nov 30, 2019 at 4:29:02 pm

IVTC stands for Inverse Telecine.
From Techopedia:
IVTC is a procedure where the telecine process is reversed with the help of video editing tools. It is a process of transforming a film back to its original frame rate from 24 fixtures per second to video, which consists of 60 fields per second.
These days it's actually 59.94 (thanks to the NTSC colour standard) which doesn't affect you as a PAL user.

Why 23.976 instead of 24?
Here's a great thread on the issue. Pay attention to the reply (the 5th one) from David Mullen ASC as he does an excellent job of explaining things.
https://cinematography.com/index.php?/topic/71346-why-23976-and-not-24-fps/

I hope this helps to clarify things for you.


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john williams
Re: IVTC Film and PAL
on Dec 8, 2019 at 4:24:02 pm

But i shoot PAL so why, if i click yes to match, why would it be ntsc?


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john williams
Re: IVTC Film and PAL
on Dec 8, 2019 at 4:29:52 pm

When i allow all media to match the first why would it habe NTSC on properties

Is there no edit here


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Mike Kujbida
Re: IVTC Film and PAL
on Dec 8, 2019 at 6:02:53 pm

Because 24 fps (actually 23.976 or 23.98 for rounding) is NTSC, not PAL.
Here's one answer I came across that summarizes it.

Is 23.98 NTSC or PAL?
23.976fps, rounded up to 23.98fps, started out as the format for dealing with 24fps film in a NTSC post environment. 23.98fps now exists as a standalone HD video format. But logically it's only used in NTSC countries so you wouldn't find it in a PAL 25fps country.


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john williams
Re: IVTC Film and PAL
on Dec 8, 2019 at 6:40:11 pm

Hi Mike

But I am not NTSC. I am in a PAL country and my camera is set to PAL. Yet if i say yes to vegas suggestion to have all clips like the first it goes to NTSC. But the first is PAL


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Mike Kujbida
Re: IVTC Film and PAL
on Dec 8, 2019 at 6:49:42 pm

John, I realize you're in a PAL country and have your camera set to PAL but as far as Vegas (and most other NLEs) is concerned, 23.976/23.98/24 is NTSC. That's just the way it is.


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john williams
Re: IVTC Film and PAL
on Dec 8, 2019 at 6:54:36 pm

vegas is wrong as it reads my camera as NTSC. and that is the way vegas is. wrong


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Mike Kujbida
Re: IVTC Film and PAL
on Dec 8, 2019 at 6:57:39 pm

Vegas is reading the file as NTSC because 24 fps or any slight variation thereof is NTSC, not PAL.


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Ole Kristiansen
Re: IVTC Film and PAL
on Dec 8, 2019 at 7:50:57 pm

Vegas is not wrong !

It is the way the menu is in your camera !

Your options depend on whether you select NTSC or PAL !

NTSC: 24, 30, 60fps
PAL: 24, 25, 50fps


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john williams
Re: IVTC Film and PAL
on Dec 8, 2019 at 8:04:36 pm

my video mode is set to PAL so vegas is wrong


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john williams
Re: IVTC Film and PAL
on Dec 8, 2019 at 8:07:19 pm

my video mode is set PAL and my frame rate is set to 24 fps


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john williams
Re: IVTC Film and PAL
on Dec 8, 2019 at 8:21:43 pm

i just shot a few seconds now. Video mode is PAL. fp is 24. on loading to vegas 15 it give is at ivct
I change to start all projects with 24PAL but it goes back to IVTC Film when opened again


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Ole Kristiansen
Re: IVTC Film and PAL
on Dec 8, 2019 at 8:28:58 pm

Hi John

"Video mode is PAL. fp is 24" That is wrong - 24fps is not PAL - 25, 50fps is PAL !

Please tell me why you set your camera to record 24fps ?


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john williams
Re: IVTC Film and PAL
on Dec 8, 2019 at 8:36:38 pm

there is a 24 fps option under PAL in my camera

When i say start all projecs with these settings it does not keep the setting when closed and started again. Have to change every time


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Ole Kristiansen
Re: IVTC Film and PAL
on Dec 8, 2019 at 8:47:07 pm

"there is a 24 fps option under PAL in my camera" Yes - 24fps is cinema mode - 25, 50 fps is PAL !

If you look in the manual for your camera - you also need the 24fps cinema - 25, 50fps PAL mode if you connect your camera to a PAL tv !

But still 24fps is not PAL - is is just the way Nikon have made your camera menu ! If you want PAL set the fps to 25 or 50 !


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john williams
Re: IVTC Film and PAL
on Dec 8, 2019 at 8:56:51 pm

@Ole Kristiansen

Thanks. What is cinema mode is that NTSC.? . I will set the camera to 25 and see what happens thank you. Strange to put an
NTSC option under PAL in the menu


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Ole Kristiansen
Re: IVTC Film and PAL
on Dec 8, 2019 at 9:18:17 pm

Hi John

"What is cinema mode is that NTSC.? No, cinema mode on your camera is 24fps !

Your camera can be used in NTSC 60Hz countries and in PAL 50Hz countries ! In the NTSC mode 24fps, 30, 60fps ! In the PAL mode 24fps, 25, 50fps !

You got a 24fps "cinema look" in NTSC and PAL video mode - so if you want to see 24fps on a PAL tv - you need to record in PAL video mode - if you want to see 24fps on a NTSC tv - you need to record in NTSC video mode !


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john williams
Re: IVTC Film and PAL
on Dec 8, 2019 at 9:27:47 pm

In the PAL mode 24fps, 25, 50fps !

But you said PAL does not do 24fps.

"In the PAL mode 24fps, 25, 50fps !" when i do that vegas says ivct which is ntsc

"if you want to see 24fps on a PAL tv - you need to record in PAL video mode" you also said "need the 24fps cinema - 25, 50fps PAL mode if you connect your camera to a PAL tv !"

I do not understand.

I want cinema mode 24 fps in pal

but vegas to say fps 24 pal is ivct which is ntsc not pal.


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Ole Kristiansen
Re: IVTC Film and PAL
on Dec 8, 2019 at 9:50:05 pm

Hi John !

Your camera can be used in both NTSC and PAL countries! 24fps is not PAL and PAL is not 24fps! Whether you use NTSC video mode or PAL video mode - you also have the option of recording 24fps which is cinema mode! Why Nikon made it this way - only Nikon can answer!

"I want cinema mode 24 fps in pal" There is no PAL 24fps - PAL is 25, 50fps !

I try again - In PAL video mode - you can record cinema 24fps and PAL 25, 50 fps ! Then you can connect your camera to a PAL tv and play cinema 24fps recordings and PAL 25, 50fps recordings !

If you live in USA you need to set to NTSC video mode - then you can record cinema 24fps and NTSC 30, 60fps ! If you connect you camera to a NTSC tv - you can play cinema 24fps, and NTSC 30 , 60fps recordings !


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john williams
Re: IVTC Film and PAL
on Dec 8, 2019 at 10:14:55 pm

Hi Ole

Thanks i appreciate it but i do not understand at all!

"you also have the option of recording 24fps which is cinema mode!" so is this NTSC?

What I should have said in OP is that it is cinema mode 24 fps that vegas says is ivct

I wanted cinema mode because i like that look

Thanks again !


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Ole Kristiansen
Re: IVTC Film and PAL
on Dec 8, 2019 at 10:40:46 pm

Your camera has 2 different system frequencies! NTSC 60Hz and PAL 50Hz! You have chosen PAL 50Hz - because you live in a country where you use 50Hz !

Now you set your camera to PAL video mode/system frequency ! in PAL video mode - you can record 24fps it is 24Hz and 25, 50fps named PAL !

If you like the look of 24fps - then use it - Vegas will not list it as PAL because it is 24Hz !


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john williams
Re: IVTC Film and PAL
on Dec 8, 2019 at 10:58:36 pm

Hi Ole

Thanks for your patience -:).

"If you like the look of 24fps - then use it - Vegas will not list it as PAL because it is 24Hz "
OK

J


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Francois Pénzes
Re: IVTC Film and PAL
on Dec 8, 2019 at 11:00:16 pm

Hi John

NTSC stand for National Television System Committee and this system is used in countries that have an electrical grid that is supplied with 120V at 60Hz. (see this link for the list of countries that use NTSC) Frame rate is typically 29.97 fps. (half of 60Hz) and multiples of it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTSC

PAL stands for Phase Alternating Line and this system is used in countries that have an electrical grid that is supplied with 220V at 50Hz. (see this link for the list of countries that use PAL) Frame rate is typically 25 fps. (half of 50Hz) and multiples of it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAL

Now, what about 24 fps. That is a whole different story. It was for the longest time the standard for film. Best you read these very well written articles about the history of it on top of the one recommended by Mike Kujbida.

https://www.filmindependent.org/blog/hacking-film-24-frames-per-second/

https://aframe.com/blog/2013/07/a-beginners-guide-to-frame-rates/

Cheers !

PC Win 10 Pro 64-bit 16gb
Ryzen 9 3900X 12 Core 4.60GHz
Radeon RX 5700 XT
Cameras: Canon XF305 + Canon XH-A1
Vegas Pro 16, User since Vegas 3.0

''When the cutting stops, the editing begins...''


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