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Is it better to simply use dual layer dvd's as opposed to messing around w bitrates?

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Jeff David
Is it better to simply use dual layer dvd's as opposed to messing around w bitrates?
on Mar 12, 2019 at 9:28:56 pm

I have a 8.5 gb project that I want to burn to a dvd.

Is it better to simply use a dual layer dvd or should I mess around w the bitrates?

I was sent instructions on bit rates but it seems easier to simply use a dual layer dvd?

Lenovo quad core i7 16gb of ram, Windows 8.1 MS 13 64 bit Thumbnail is view out of the Olde North Church window where the signal lanterns were hung, as in, "1 if by land 2 if by sea" looking across the Charles River to the Charlestown Naval Yard where rebels awaited the signal April 18th, 1775.


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George Dean
Re: Is it better to simply use dual layer dvd's as opposed to messing around w bitrates?
on Mar 12, 2019 at 9:56:04 pm

Hi Jeff,

I would try the bit rate adjustment and if I could live with the quality I would avoid dual layer, as sometimes players have an issue with dual layer burns.

Best Regards......George


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Graham Bernard
Re: Is it better to simply use dual layer dvd's as opposed to messing around w bitrates?
on Mar 13, 2019 at 7:59:46 am
Last Edited By Graham Bernard on Mar 13, 2019 at 8:01:14 am

[George Dean] "I would try the bit rate adjustment"
In a heart beat... In a heart beat.

Once you’ve experimented with adjusting BitRates, and getting all your Video onto one DVD you’ll have a world of opportunity. What is the total Playtime of your Movie? I can easily get two hours onto a single, single layer DVD, including complex menu structures etc etc....

* Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX60HS Bridge


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Francois Pénzes
Re: Is it better to simply use dual layer dvd's as opposed to messing around w bitrates?
on Mar 13, 2019 at 12:57:51 pm

Hi Jeff

I second my colleagues. You can use this handy calculator to help you figure it out. This is one of many available for free out there.

https://www.videohelp.com/software/Bitrate-calculator

Cheers !

PC Win 10 Pro 64-bit 16gb Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz
Cameras: Canon XF305 + Canon XH-A1
Blackmagic HyperDeck Studio Mini
Vegas Pro 16, User since Vegas 3.0

''When the cutting stops, the editing begins...''


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Jeff David
Re: Is it better to simply use dual layer dvd's as opposed to messing around w bitrates?
on Mar 27, 2019 at 2:09:03 am

Thanks Francois.

I downloaded the calculator but I am somewhat confused.

For the video specs, I know I can look them up under "project properties" and I did except I was unable to find

"TOTAL FRAMES"

I am using Sony Movie Studio Platinum 13. Where do I find the number of frames please?

Also - where do I find the bitrate and size for the audio tracks? I have a voice track and sound track.

Am I correct that on the right hand side under "CALCULATE FROM" I only need to enter the final size I want?

I see that 1,457 is entered in the video bitrate option and 0.001 is entered in the bits/pixel farm field. Do I need to enter anything in those boxes?

I've never had any experience w this type of thing.

Thanks.

Lenovo quad core i7 16gb of ram, Windows 8.1 MS 13 64 bit Thumbnail is view out of the Olde North Church window where the signal lanterns were hung, as in, "1 if by land 2 if by sea" looking across the Charles River to the Charlestown Naval Yard where rebels awaited the signal April 18th, 1775.


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Jeff David
Re: Is it better to simply use dual layer dvd's as opposed to messing around w bitrates?
on Mar 27, 2019 at 1:44:06 am

Thanks! My video is 2 hours long.

Lenovo quad core i7 16gb of ram, Windows 8.1 MS 13 64 bit Thumbnail is view out of the Olde North Church window where the signal lanterns were hung, as in, "1 if by land 2 if by sea" looking across the Charles River to the Charlestown Naval Yard where rebels awaited the signal April 18th, 1775.


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Graham Bernard
Re: Is it better to simply use dual layer dvd's as opposed to messing around w bitrates?
on Mar 27, 2019 at 4:08:01 am

[Jeff David] "My video is 2 hours long."
Totally doable. Now, that BitRate calculator is not one I know. Here’s the one I’ve used over decades of use and found to be both reliable and straightforward. It also gives a graphical suggestion as to the possible Quality you’d get.

It’s part of this “other” COW thread being hosted by a stalwart for VP, John Cline, a chap who I’ve learnt much of my video production, from capture to publishing - here that means DVD production. Thanks John! 🤩 : https://forums.creativecow.net/docs/forums/post.php?forumid=24&postid=93530...

Jeff, if you remember anything recognise the following:

1) Higher BitRates create larger files. If your video contains noisy footage eg Fireworks; dusty effects; sparkles from welding torches and so on, you might need to apply, just for that section, MPEG2 renders for that footage. BUT if your footage is mostly low optical noise or “quiet” then we can contemplate a lower BitRate.

2) Whilst Variable BitRates (VBR), as opposed to a Constant BitRate (CBR), whilst (VBR) allowing us to be “mean” with file size might confuse older DVD players as they could struggle adjusting to decode the bit variations.

Now, also download BitRate Viewer, although old, it still works. What this does is to allow us to see the changes in the bitrates of a file and give us a clue what’s best to use: https://www.videohelp.com/software/Bitrate-Viewer-2

So, with these two tools:

* BitRate Calculator (see the COW link to John Cline site above)
* BitRate Viewer (see the VideoHelp link above)

You can comfortably, subject to any necessary wrangling of optical noise, fit your TWO HOUR material onto a single DVD. No need for Dual Layer DVDs.

* Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX60HS Bridge


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Jeff David
Re: Is it better to simply use dual layer dvd's as opposed to messing around w bitrates?
on Mar 27, 2019 at 7:49:52 pm

Thanks a million! I'm going to study your links now and see if I can figure out how to do it.

I don't understand the one that Francois sent - although it's prob pretty simple if you're not a novice like me.

Wow - I'm glad I don't have any fireworks like stuff as that seems like ti would be difficult to combine mpeg2 in there. Wow. I'm glad I don't have to do that - it seems complicated.

I'll let you know how I make out after studying your links!

Jeff

Lenovo quad core i7 16gb of ram, Windows 8.1 MS 13 64 bit Thumbnail is view out of the Olde North Church window where the signal lanterns were hung, as in, "1 if by land 2 if by sea" looking across the Charles River to the Charlestown Naval Yard where rebels awaited the signal April 18th, 1775.


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Jeff David
Re: Is it better to simply use dual layer dvd's as opposed to messing around w bitrates?
on Mar 27, 2019 at 8:43:02 pm

Thanks Graham,

I downloaded both programs.

I saw where the poster said what to put in some of the fields on the bitrate calculator but what about:

Motion Menus running time
fixed menus
nr of subtitles
total slides
Menu transitions
streams per vts
duration each

do I have to put anyhting in those fields? I have no idea where I would get that info??

Lenovo quad core i7 16gb of ram, Windows 8.1 MS 13 64 bit Thumbnail is view out of the Olde North Church window where the signal lanterns were hung, as in, "1 if by land 2 if by sea" looking across the Charles River to the Charlestown Naval Yard where rebels awaited the signal April 18th, 1775.


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Graham Bernard
Re: Is it better to simply use dual layer dvd's as opposed to messing around w bitrates?
on Mar 27, 2019 at 9:16:27 pm

[Jeff David] "do I have to put anyhting in those fields?"
Quick reply - no. Unless.... you’ve designed a whole bunch from that list. Have you? But, just for starters, let’s get an overall calculation and think about those overheads later, yeah?

Get used to Tweaking your “recipe”, making changes to balance all into that 4.7gb. As you adjust you’ll find you can drive down your overall size to provide some overhead space. It’s great fun!

Oh yes, whenever I’m preparing and doing draft DVD Burns I do it on DVD-RW.

* Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX60HS Bridge


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Jeff David
Re: Is it better to simply use dual layer dvd's as opposed to messing around w bitrates?
on Mar 28, 2019 at 8:08:19 pm

Thanks a million Graham?

I just spent the afternoon training to be able to do the dvd burn.

I would not have been able to figure it out just based on just the bit rate calculator but I found this awesome complimentary training video that is fantastic and covers the entire process!







I've yet to attempt to burn the dvd but that's the next step!

I've burned blu-rays in the past w out any problem but it seems dvd's are more involved.

I only just realized from reading the links that most organizations don't even have blu-rays! Wow- I figured they would all have state of the art but I found out different!

Thanks again!

Lenovo quad core i7 16gb of ram, Windows 8.1 MS 13 64 bit Thumbnail is view out of the Olde North Church window where the signal lanterns were hung, as in, "1 if by land 2 if by sea" looking across the Charles River to the Charlestown Naval Yard where rebels awaited the signal April 18th, 1775.


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Graham Bernard
Re: Is it better to simply use dual layer dvd's as opposed to messing around w bitrates?
on Mar 29, 2019 at 4:20:51 am

[Jeff David] "Thanks a million Graham?"
Jeff, you’re very welcome. Nothing like finding a “complimentary” training video to augment the text written here. The Pointers I’ve written at great length, must’ve given you signposts to “move on”. Once you’ve prepared that MPEG2, either VBR or CBR, do use the BitRate Viewer to actually SEE the way your file fluctuates. If you do get issues with the DVD player you can pinpoint the areas needing a more focussed attention.

* Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX60HS Bridge


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Jeff David
Re: Is it better to simply use dual layer dvd's as opposed to messing around w bitrates?
on Mar 29, 2019 at 8:49:04 pm

Graham,

You have absolutely been crucial and helped me work through roadblocks. I would have been stuck at several points if not for you. I can't tell you how grateful I am that you share your knowledge with me.

Yes - I was able to figure things out based on your tips in those cases where I still was confused. I try to do research on my own before posting here. Yes - I was only able to find that instructional video thanks to you. Your post prompted me to do a search and bingo! That additional training video I found is Hugh! It goes through the entire process including the DVD Architect which I recently got but have not used yet.

Last night - I rendered the video to my hard drive - took about 10 hours. Tonight I'll render the audio. I know the audio render does not take long.

Like I said - I know how to burn the Blu-rays - but the DVD is much more involved. Funny - you would think it would be the opposite.

Most of what I learned - I learned here - or on my own.

I was not able to work on my project for about 6 months as I was tied up w a job I had.

I'm going to send you a 100% discount so you can watch my completed video.

Give me a few days and I'll send it to you as thanks for your coaching!

Jeff

ps. Is Grazie your nickname? I see that listed at the bottom

Lenovo quad core i7 16gb of ram, Windows 8.1 MS 13 64 bit Thumbnail is view out of the Olde North Church window where the signal lanterns were hung, as in, "1 if by land 2 if by sea" looking across the Charles River to the Charlestown Naval Yard where rebels awaited the signal April 18th, 1775.


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Jeff David
Re: Is it better to simply use dual layer dvd's as opposed to messing around w bitrates?
on Mar 29, 2019 at 8:51:45 pm

Graham,

I just saw where I inadvertently put a ? mark after your name in my last post. That was accidental - I did not even know that was in there. My bad! Sorry!

Lenovo quad core i7 16gb of ram, Windows 8.1 MS 13 64 bit Thumbnail is view out of the Olde North Church window where the signal lanterns were hung, as in, "1 if by land 2 if by sea" looking across the Charles River to the Charlestown Naval Yard where rebels awaited the signal April 18th, 1775.


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Graham Bernard
Re: Is it better to simply use dual layer dvd's as opposed to messing around w bitrates?
on Mar 29, 2019 at 9:30:35 pm
Last Edited By Graham Bernard on Mar 29, 2019 at 9:32:59 pm

[Jeff David] "I just saw where I inadvertently put a ? mark after your name in my last post. That was accidental - I did not even know that was in there. My bad! Sorry!"
I was given a very thick skin by my parents and a deep understanding of humans by my one and only Welsh Border collie-dog.

OK, here’s something to ponder on: High Bitrates make for Larger file sizes. Yup, we got that. Any visual noise might require special treatment and here I’m referring to possible Grain or Low light video that had required a high GAIN setting. This in turn generates masses amounts of noise and all that noise, for the purposes of DVD production, has to be tamed if file size and BitRates need to be pulled back. I use small dabs of “Neat Video”. NV is my preferred tool to smooth out GRAINY footage. There are other ways to do this, but not being trained in the arts of programming, NV supplies a User Friedly GUI to allow to look good. NV is quite remarkable and over the years has saved me on more than dozen times.

So, Jeff, to recap, the quantity and the granularity of the Visual Noise works against getting lean mean files sizes. Washing original footage through BitRate Viewer is a great tool to identify areas of your footage that are noisy. Once you know where they are you can take a surgical approach to make “quiet” that noise.

As I said waaaay up there, this DVD Prep is fun. Well I think so. 😂

Oh yeah, your title to this Thread, “Re: Is it better to simply use dual layer dvd's as opposed to messing around w bitrates?” I meant to ask you, is it?

* Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX60HS Bridge


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Jeff David
Re: Is it better to simply use dual layer dvd's as opposed to messing around w bitrates?
on Mar 29, 2019 at 11:29:56 pm

No - it's better to use the bit rate approach. I never doubt the advice of those with vastly more experience than me - especially when I've never done that part of editing before.

This thread had been extremely educational. Over the weekend - I will print this off and follow it closely as well as the training video.

I will definitely run it through the bit-rate viewer. Yes - for sure.

Like mentioned - next up - is for me to do the audio render and then follow the rest of your advice/instructions combined as well with the training video instructions.

Lenovo quad core i7 16gb of ram, Windows 8.1 MS 13 64 bit Thumbnail is view out of the Olde North Church window where the signal lanterns were hung, as in, "1 if by land 2 if by sea" looking across the Charles River to the Charlestown Naval Yard where rebels awaited the signal April 18th, 1775.


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Graham Bernard
Re: Is it better to simply use dual layer dvd's as opposed to messing around w bitrates?
on Mar 30, 2019 at 2:39:34 pm

[Jeff David] "No - it's better to use the bit rate approach."
My work here is done.🤪

* Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX60HS Bridge


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Jeff David
Re: Is it better to simply use dual layer dvd's as opposed to messing around w bitrates?
on Jun 25, 2019 at 6:32:41 pm

Graham - I've been unable to burn the dvd. I'm stuck. Would you be willing to help me by walking me through it? Yes - I have all of the instructions but but I'm missing something. I am willing to pay you for your help.

Lenovo quad core i7 16gb of ram, Windows 8.1 MS 13 64 bit Thumbnail is view out of the Olde North Church window where the signal lanterns were hung, as in, "1 if by land 2 if by sea" looking across the Charles River to the Charlestown Naval Yard where rebels awaited the signal April 18th, 1775.


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Graham Bernard
Re: Is it better to simply use dual layer dvd's as opposed to messing around w bitrates?
on Jun 26, 2019 at 2:02:25 am

[Jeff David] "Graham - I've been unable to burn the dvd. I'm stuck."
Hi Jeff! As this Thread was primarily concerned with the options for utilising BitRate manipulation to achieve size reduction to fit onto one DVD might I suggest you start afresh with a new Thread on the topic of how to prepare a Video for burning to DVD.

From my experience on the COW there are plenty of volunteers willing to assist.

* Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX60HS Bridge


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Jeff David
Re: Is it better to simply use dual layer dvd's as opposed to messing around w bitrates?
on Jun 27, 2019 at 5:34:11 pm

I had another thread already where I got all of the written instructions on burning a dvd but there is something I am not doing right.

Lenovo quad core i7 16gb of ram, Windows 8.1 MS 13 64 bit Thumbnail is view out of the Olde North Church window where the signal lanterns were hung, as in, "1 if by land 2 if by sea" looking across the Charles River to the Charlestown Naval Yard where rebels awaited the signal April 18th, 1775.


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Graham Bernard
Re: Is it better to simply use dual layer dvd's as opposed to messing around w bitrates?
on Jun 27, 2019 at 6:17:20 pm

[Jeff David] "I had another thread already ....but there is something I am not doing right."
Hi Jeff! Give a link to that thread.

* Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX60HS Bridge


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