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Vegas Pro 16 can't handle 2.7K?

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Alberto Poli
Vegas Pro 16 can't handle 2.7K?
on Feb 19, 2019 at 11:16:34 pm
Last Edited By Alberto Poli on Feb 19, 2019 at 11:17:13 pm

Hello again everybody!
I'm having a new issue on SV:
I dragged around 40 min of footage from my new Sony Alpha 7s (1280X720 AVC 120fps progressive) and from my new Gopro Hero 7 (2704x2032 HEVC 60fps progressive) on this project that I have set at 1920x1080 29,936fps progressive interpolate fields.
The issue is that initially it took forever to import all files (sometimes SV crashed even while waiting to drop one clip at a time on the timeline) and now it takes ages everytime I have to open the project.
Also, if I switch to any other application running on my computer and I try to come back to SV, it takes an exagerated long loading time before I can use the software again.
Worst thing is that sometimes my screen kinda shut down while editing and there is nothing I can do but rebooting my laptop with the restart button.
I had to create video proxies for each file in order to be able to preview anything, and obviously I wouldn't have so many problems if I only edited a few clips together. I'm wondering if it's just a matter of excessive amount of footage or I'm missing something on my computer (more likely).

Here are my specs:
Vegas pro 16 Build 352
Win 10.0 64 bit
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-7700HQ CPU @ 2.80GHz
NVIDIA GEForce gtx 1050 driver 25.21.14.1735 (either latest or previous driver version has the same result);
GPU acceleration on Vegas either OFF (won't work on ON either though);
so4compoundplug is disabled;

Anybody has opinions to share with me?
Thank you for your time!


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George Dean
Re: Vegas Pro 16 can't handle 2.7K?
on Feb 19, 2019 at 11:51:21 pm

I'm not suggesting a fix, but will contribute to your discussion in hopes there will be something of satisfaction oncoming.

As you may know, the HEVC from the Hero 7 and the 120 fps from the Sony are going to labor your system (although your project setting of 29.970 should help).

Question: you are using Vegas proxies from the Hero footage correct? Is you preview set on 'Preview' or 'draft' quality? Otherwise the proxy is not being used.

If you bring in the HEVC footage into Vegas by itself and render it to 'Magix Intermediate' and use that intermediate file in place of the original source in your project, does it play better?


Best Regards......George


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Ole Kristiansen
Re: Vegas Pro 16 can't handle 2.7K?
on Feb 20, 2019 at 12:24:39 am

Hi Alberto


I don't think your CPU is powerful for such tasks!

You need to create intermediate files before starting your editing!

best,
Ole


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Alberto Poli
Re: Vegas Pro 16 can't handle 2.7K?
on Feb 20, 2019 at 7:13:36 am

Thank you very much George and Ole!
yes my preview is set to Preview (auto)!
So, if I'm getting this correctly, I should try to render each clip of the project as "Magix intermediate" an then replace all of them (or can I render multiple clips togheter?), right?

Could you please tell me what kind of specs should my computer have in order to process such tasks?


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Alberto Poli
Re: Vegas Pro 16 can't handle 2.7K?
on Feb 20, 2019 at 7:15:09 am

I forgot to add my RAM, which is 16gb


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Ole Kristiansen
Re: Vegas Pro 16 can't handle 2.7K?
on Feb 20, 2019 at 8:14:17 am

What is your timeline settings - is it 1280X720 or 1920x1080 ?


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Alberto Poli
Re: Vegas Pro 16 can't handle 2.7K?
on Feb 20, 2019 at 8:26:03 am

Ole where do I find my timeline settings, which I assume are not the project properties?

I tried to render an intermediate file but it loses in quality and smoothness, am I getting the render settings wrong?


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Ole Kristiansen
Re: Vegas Pro 16 can't handle 2.7K?
on Feb 20, 2019 at 8:36:48 am

Your project properties is your timeline settings !

What is the bit rate of your footage ?

If you only put the Sony Alpha 7s (1280X720 AVC 120fps progressive on the timeline - can they play without problems ?


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Alberto Poli
Re: Vegas Pro 16 can't handle 2.7K?
on Feb 20, 2019 at 9:13:57 am

sorry, I had written the project properties in my first post that's why I thought they were 2 different things:
1920x1080 29,970fps progressive interpolate fields.

If I only drag a few clips on the timeline (either from the sony alpha or the hero7) they run fairly smooth. Problem is when it starts to be more minutes of footage


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Ole Kristiansen
Re: Vegas Pro 16 can't handle 2.7K?
on Feb 20, 2019 at 9:36:38 am

Okay !

Your footage is progressive so I will set Deinterlace method: None and Resample mode: Disable resample !

What is the bit rate of your footage ?



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Alberto Poli
Re: Vegas Pro 16 can't handle 2.7K?
on Feb 20, 2019 at 9:44:58 am

most of the videos from the Sony a7s are 47192kbps, 77740kbps and 59071kbps for the Hero7.
Are you changing the framerate to 25?


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Ole Kristiansen
Re: Vegas Pro 16 can't handle 2.7K?
on Feb 20, 2019 at 9:52:15 am

Are you changing the framerate to 25? No, is was from one of my footage !


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Alberto Poli
Re: Vegas Pro 16 can't handle 2.7K?
on Feb 20, 2019 at 9:56:11 am

ok, apart from the deinterlace mode I am using your same settings. Even on "none" nothing changes.


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Ole Kristiansen
Re: Vegas Pro 16 can't handle 2.7K?
on Feb 20, 2019 at 10:10:06 am

How is the quality if you try to convert one of your GoPro recordings to Sony MXF, HD422 1920x1080 - 59,940P


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Alberto Poli
Re: Vegas Pro 16 can't handle 2.7K?
on Feb 20, 2019 at 10:16:32 am

quality stays fine (although Sv automatically changes frame size to 1280x720 when I set 59.940p)


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Ole Kristiansen
Re: Vegas Pro 16 can't handle 2.7K?
on Feb 20, 2019 at 10:49:11 am

I assume you recorded with 59.940p - because you want to use the footage for slow motion!

Usually I use Avid DNxHR - but it first requires downloading the DNxHR codec from Avid and installing the codec and restarting the computer! Then you can find the DNxHR codec in Vegas Pro under Quick Time 7 - when you have to Render your recordings!

You can also convert GoPro HEVC Videos to H.264 using HandBrake - but I don't know if your computer can play H.264 without any problems!

https://gopro.com/help/articles/how_to/how-to-convert-gopro-hevc-videos-to-...


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Alberto Poli
Re: Vegas Pro 16 can't handle 2.7K?
on Feb 20, 2019 at 10:58:53 am

Thank you Ole, I'll give HandBreak a try!
About the DNxHR, what does Avid do exactly and how is it supposed to help reducing the abnormous loading time?


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Ole Kristiansen
Re: Vegas Pro 16 can't handle 2.7K?
on Feb 20, 2019 at 11:10:40 am

Why you should use Avid DNxHD (read all 3 pages)

https://www.redsharknews.com/post/item/88-why-you-should-use-dnxhd-and-pror...


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George Dean
Re: Vegas Pro 16 can't handle 2.7K?
on Feb 20, 2019 at 4:08:14 pm

Alberto, how many unique clips from the Hero 7, that you place in the Project Media bin, will you be adding to the timeline for this project? 5, 10, 20, 40, 60, etc?


Best Regards......George


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Alberto Poli
Re: Vegas Pro 16 can't handle 2.7K?
on Feb 20, 2019 at 4:10:36 pm

George let's say around 15


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Alberto Poli
Re: Vegas Pro 16 can't handle 2.7K?
on Feb 20, 2019 at 4:23:24 pm

Ole thank you for the link, it sounds like an easy way to lighten up the amount of work of the computer to deal with the timeline although it may take a lot more storage space.
What's the procedure then, after downloading the DNxHR codec?


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George Dean
Re: Vegas Pro 16 can't handle 2.7K?
on Feb 20, 2019 at 4:54:06 pm

Alberto, can you upload a sample clip from your Hero 7. Something like 2-3 seconds to keep the file size down should be adequate.

As far as I know the footage from the Hero 7 HEVC to DNx would have to be converted, so the time and process of converting the source media is a concern to get the fastest and easiest method in batch mode.

In the past I have used Vegas and Resolve to batch convert source media to DNx, but there are other programs that probably can do it. I'm thinking maybe something like ER Media Tool Kit. If you want to upload a short clip I can tinker around trying different methods.

Also Ole may have some suggestions.

By the way, Avid DNx codec requires Quicktime qt7plug.dll, which is an unsupported 32 bit program that Apple does not support in Windows. One of the long standing issues with DNx is the limitation to load more than about 40 clips in the timeline when Vegas will normally fail. So if we keep the number of unique clips in a project at about 40 or below, no problem. If we load more than 40, sometimes 41, 42, 45, 47, etc. then Vegas will most likely fail and either lock-up, hang and/or crash.


Best Regards......George


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Ole Kristiansen
Re: Vegas Pro 16 can't handle 2.7K?
on Feb 21, 2019 at 9:59:35 am

I also considered Scripting Batch Render in Vegas Pro and the ER Media Tool Kit!

The disadvantage of the ER Media Tool Kit - if it will convert Gopro Hero 7 2704x2032 HEVC 59,940p -
then it cannot do so in 2704x2032! It then becomes 1920x1080 - losing the opportunity
to zoom without quality loss on a 1920x1080 timeline!

The advantage of converting to DNxHR in Vegas Pro is that you can Render DNxHR out in 2704x2032 59.940p
Alberto writes: .... reducing the abnormal loading time in Vegas Pro - it may be a problem!

If Alberto can live with that 2704x2032 HEVC 59,940p is converted to 1920x1080 59,940p DNxHD
then it is easiest if the ER Media Tool Kit will convert the recordings!

ER Media Toolkit is easy to use - just drag the footage into the program!
Use DNxHD.mov!

You can download ER Media Toolkit here:

https://audiospot.audio/audiospot-creativetools







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Alberto Poli
Re: Vegas Pro 16 can't handle 2.7K?
on Feb 22, 2019 at 2:21:44 pm

13137_gh017488.mp4.zip

George here is a sample video in 2.7k from my Hero7!

Thank you Ole, I'll take some time to check and try everything!


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Ole Kristiansen
Re: Vegas Pro 16 can't handle 2.7K?
on Feb 22, 2019 at 2:55:25 pm

You can convert your footage with ER Media Tool Kit - but it will be 1920x1080 DNxHD !


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Ole Kristiansen
Re: Vegas Pro 16 can't handle 2.7K?
on Feb 22, 2019 at 3:56:25 pm

Here is your footage convert with ER Media Tool Kit - and Sony Vegas pro 13 - to DNxHD and DNxHR







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Alberto Poli
Re: Vegas Pro 16 can't handle 2.7K?
on Feb 22, 2019 at 4:13:30 pm

wow that was so helpful Ole! it looks like the ideal solution!
I'll try and see differences with HandBreak!


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George Dean
Re: Vegas Pro 16 can't handle 2.7K?
on Feb 22, 2019 at 7:21:21 pm

Alberto, if you would like batch rendering scripts that work in Vegas Pro 16, I have them. I use 3 scripts, the 1st marks each clip on a track with regions and names those regions the same as the clip name (without the extension). The 2nd scripts rendering those regions using the region name to the template of your choice. The 3rd scripts removes the regions.

I used to throw 5-10 clips on to a track and at time and use these scripts to render out to intermediates like DNx. I'm sure Ole has done the same.


Best Regards......George


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Ole Kristiansen
Re: Vegas Pro 16 can't handle 2.7K?
on Feb 22, 2019 at 8:09:36 pm

As George Dean has mentioned, it takes you to install Quicktime and then the DNx codecs
to work in Vegas Pro! Another good codec for Vegas pro - is Cineform! I have made a
short video showing how to batch render to Cineform with the program Virtualdub2!

Download Virtualdub2 here:

https://sourceforge.net/projects/vdfiltermod/







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George Dean
Re: Vegas Pro 16 can't handle 2.7K?
on Feb 22, 2019 at 10:24:39 pm

Alberto, as Ole suggest you can also use the Cineform codec, which although considered to be visually lossless, isn't as lossless as DNx, but will run smooth as DNx, but has other advantages.

1st it doesn't require the 32 bit Quicktime Component to run in Vegas. 2nd It is a considerable smaller files size than DNx.

Using a tool made by Wayne Wwaag called Render Quality Metric, which compares the quality loss from the original when rendered out I recently made these comparisons

Original Source was 1920x1080-59.940p DNxHD 422 10 bit, Bit Rate 440 MB/s, files size 628 Mib

RQM reveled these ratings to a Cineform and DNx render.......(note, the lower the MSR value and the higher the PSNR value, the less quality lost

Cineform Filmscan 1, MSR = 1.369, PSNR = 46.766, Bit Rate = 189 MB/s, file size = 268 MiB
DNxHD HD 220 422 10 bit, MSR = .501, PSNR = 51.136, Bit Rate = 440 MB/s, file size = 620 MiB

Keep in mind even though Cineform doesn't retain as much quality as DNx, this comparison is against 4:2:2 10 bit source, which is considerably higher than your source which is 4:2:0 8 bit and I would think there would be less loss between these two options.

BTW, to get the Cineform codec download and install the GoPro Studio program. The program is of little use, but when installed it also install the Cineform codec, which is free via the GoPro Studio app. Of course always close Vegas when installing a codec. The Cineform render format and templates will be found in the 'Video for Windows' and Cineform uses the .avi container.

Nice tutorial Ole on using the VirtualDub2.


Best Regards......George


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Ole Kristiansen
Re: Vegas Pro 16 can't handle 2.7K?
on Feb 24, 2019 at 4:47:49 pm

"Nice tutorial Ole on using the VirtualDub2." Thank You George Dean !

Maybe it was a bad advice! In Virtualdub2 you can only trancode to .avi
when you Batch Render - it doesn't seem like my computer and Vegas Pro -
like Cineform.avi from Virualdub2! Cineform.mov is ok!

You can also use Davinci Resolve to transcode recordings!
I have the full version Studio - it can easily handle HEVC recordings!
Don't know about Davinci Resolve Free! The good thing about Davinci Resolve:

With the release of DaVinci Resolve 12.5.1.
on Aug 11, 2016

It adds ProRes decoding on Windows and no longer requires QuickTime 7 for Windows.
So Windows users can now run Resolve without installing QuickTime. Trimming and
multicam performance is also improved as DaVinci Resolve 12.5.1 now uses its own
native 64-bit code to read and write .mov files.

Best,
Ole







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Geoff Candy
Re: Vegas Pro 16 can't handle 2.7K?
on Feb 24, 2019 at 10:19:27 pm

I to use a GoPro @ 2k7 and have no problems handling the video at 50P. The clip you uploaded was 2704x2028 (4:3) @29.97fps. Is your timeline set 4:3 or 16:9?

Put your clip on a matched timeline and had no problem with it. Then made 50 copies of that clip and put them on the time line. Struggled at preview set best/full but OK at 'good/half'.

Clevo laptop: i7 6700HQ @ 2.6Ghz 940mx graphics


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