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FinalCut - AE roundtrip with ProRes444 - Gamma shift

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Michael GrafFinalCut - AE roundtrip with ProRes444 - Gamma shift
by on Mar 14, 2011 at 4:34:18 pm

I've just tested the FinalCut 7 - AE CS4 roundtrip with ProRes444 on OSX 10.6.4.

I took a Black to White Gradient and ColorBars, rendered out as ProRes444. In FinalCut the Gamma and Levels were perfect on the Ultrascope.

As soon as I put the ProRes into AE, the Gamma goes down (image becomes darker) and the saturation goes down (seen on SDI out). The problem remains when I render out to ProRes444 and go back to FCP.

I've tried with Color management (Sourceclip as 709, Project as 709 and Ouput 709) and without Color management in 8 and 16 Bit.

Is there anybody with the same problems?


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Dave LaRondeRe: FinalCut - AE roundtrip with ProRes444 - Gamma shift
by on Mar 14, 2011 at 4:41:43 pm

http://blogs.adobe.com/toddkopriva/2009/12/prores-4444-colors-and-gamma-s.h...

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Michael GrafRe: FinalCut - AE roundtrip with ProRes444 - Gamma shift
by on Mar 14, 2011 at 5:00:49 pm

Thanks.

I've tried that. It didn't help. Also the problem already occurs when I bring the footage into After Effects (as measured on the HDSDI Ouput).


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Joey ForemanRe: FinalCut - AE roundtrip with ProRes444 - Gamma shift
by on Mar 14, 2011 at 5:09:59 pm

Have you tried enabling Final Cut Studio Compatibility in the Quicktime 7 preferences?

Joey Foreman
Editor/Compositor/VFX Artist


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Michael GrafRe: FinalCut - AE roundtrip with ProRes444 - Gamma shift
by on Mar 17, 2011 at 10:17:10 am

I've tried that as well, it didn't change anything at all. What does this function exactly?

In the attachments you see two pictures from HDSDI Out, measured on the Ultrascope, first FCP original file, then out of AE.


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Michael GrafRe: FinalCut - AE roundtrip with ProRes444 - Gamma shift
by on Mar 17, 2011 at 3:00:19 pm





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Joey ForemanRe: FinalCut - AE roundtrip with ProRes444 - Gamma shift
by on Mar 17, 2011 at 3:51:55 pm

I'm afraid I can't help any further with your issue. I haven't brought any material into AE as ProRes 4444, because I haven't needed to bring any footage into AE with an alpha channel. Is this why you're using 4444?
It makes sense to render from AE with 4444, if you need the alpha, but I don't know why you're importing it with that codec.

Please read this FCP forum thread, as it may give you some insight as to why ProRes 4444 may be inappropriate for your workflow, particularly this information:

What happens when you convert that to ProRes 4444 is the white get crushed and capped at 98IRE (100IRE is broadcast legal, but you can go over for other mediums), and blacks stop firm at 0 IRE (Again, those limits don't exist for things not destined for TV). This severly hampers color correction.

I would also suggest that in FCP's User Preferences > Editing that you set the Imported Still/RGB Video Gamma to 2.22.

If none of this helps, please repost your question so that someone else can take a shot at it.

Best of luck.

Joey Foreman
Editor/Compositor/VFX Artist


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Michael GrafRe: FinalCut - AE roundtrip with ProRes444 - Gamma shift
by on Mar 17, 2011 at 5:55:06 pm

Thanks for your effort Joey!

ProRes444 is pretty appropriate for my workflow, because it comes out of an Arri Alexa.

In this case, there is no issue with crushing whites and blacks, beacause its all Log.

Changing the Import Gamma Setting doesn't affect ProRes.

So maybe someone else had the same problems?


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Scott FerrilRe: FinalCut - AE roundtrip with ProRes444 - Gamma shift
by on May 14, 2011 at 8:55:32 pm

I'm having the exact same issues. In fact, there's a concern that Alexa footage is noisy, but instead the way after effects is interpreting the footage seems to be noisy. I'm not sure who at Adobe could address this, but it may be something to do with 10bit verses 12bit? Alexa uses 12bit color, and ProRes 4444 can be either 10bit or 12bit. Not sure what the issue is, but that's my guess. I get the same spikes, or specs all across the picture when bringing Alexa footage into after Effects.

Also, there is a color shift, which is again why I suspect 10-12bit errors. Maybe it's the alpha channel, not sure. Or all three combined. I've tried using no color space, preserving RGB in project, comp and render settings. The interpret footage says the ProRes 4444 has no color space. But even if I add one...no help.

This is not the case with other software. I have the same file keying quickly and better with the limited FCP chroma keyer. And Baselight and FilmMaster work fine.

For now, I would simply say that After Effects cannot handle proRes 4444. Hope they figure this out soon.

I have example files and renders if anyone is interested.

Scott Ferril
Editor / VFX Supervisor / Stereographer


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