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PC crashes while rendering

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Bogdan Brak
PC crashes while rendering
on Feb 2, 2011 at 10:44:00 am

Hey guys,

first...great forum. i've found a lot of solutions here.
right now I'm running out of time with my final at university and have problems to render out my AE project.

it's a completley animated musicclip (720p), consisting of animated pictures, cameras, lights and 3d layers in AE CS5

PC:
Win7 (64-Bit)
AMD Phenom II x4 3,2 GHz (Quadcore)
8 GB RAM
GTX-460

i changed my project to 16Bit.
and im trying to render the video out as a Quicktime Movie containing a TIFF-Sequence.
i tried to do this out of AE and out of AME CS5.
Out of AME it's quit's after 20 minutes or servereal hours. so... it doesnt seem to stop at a specific point. the log says: "unkown error" (thx log... you're very helpful^^)
last night i tried to render it out of AE. This morning I've got a Bluescreen: PFN_LIST_CORRUPT. but the clip was'n trough the queue at this time.

does anybody know, how to fix this?
thx


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Kevin Camp
Re: PC crashes while rendering
on Feb 2, 2011 at 6:27:58 pm

it may be a problem with quicktime, you might want to make sure you have the latest version.

also, i think quicktime will dummy-down the 16-bit to 8-bit... with quicktime tiff selected, does the output module allow you to select 'trillions' of colors, or just 'millions'?

also, if you have multi-processing enabled in ae, try disabling it for this render, and make sure you leave enough ram for other applications... you might try something that seems too high, maybe 4gb or so, and see if that gets you through.

Kevin Camp
Senior Designer
KCPQ, KMYQ & KRCW


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Bogdan Brak
Re: PC crashes while rendering
on Feb 2, 2011 at 6:58:10 pm

Hey,

thx for your reply.
in AE i checked multiprocessing -> it crashed
in AME i cant find option to check or uncheck, but it also crashed.
the thing is, it doesn't matter if I rendered out of AE oder AME. it crashed.
That were the result's before your post. well...what I already said.

right now im rendering out of AE WITH multiprocessing. but i only gave 4GB (of 8) to use. if this fails i'm going to uncheck MP. but i started rendering also before reading your reply.

today i also had a BSOD with MEMORY_MANAGEMENT. so ... still not sure if maybe the hardware sucks.

About Quicktime:
Yes... it does dummy-down to 8Bit when i use TIFF-Sequence as Format. Only Millions of colors. The QT Player is Version 7.6.9 (not pro). It's the latest Version.

If u have better recommendments for the output just tell me ;)
I'm on PC but when i tried AVI... the rendering crashed. QT Tiff seemed to work. My Project has only 2% of Video-Footage. Everything else are pictures. And i read, that QT Animation ist NOT recommended for animations. So... i actually dont know which settings are the best. but Tiff was "ok"

My plans are:
- rendering the whole thing out. uncompressed
- rendering the uncompressed file with h.264 for presentation on a FullHD-TV 50".. with best quality.

my problem is (beside the crashes):
- big bendering problems after h.264 compression
thats why i tried to change it to 16 Bit..but..^^.. I still dont know which are the best output settings, so i go on with the QT tiff.

untill i found better settings ;)
cheers


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Kevin Camp
Re: PC crashes while rendering
on Feb 2, 2011 at 8:26:35 pm

[Bogdan Brak] "today i also had a BSOD with MEMORY_MANAGEMENT. so ... still not sure if maybe the hardware sucks."

it is possible that you have a bad ram module, or a bad configuration (some systems have a fairly rigid way of configuring ram if you are using mixed ram module sizes).


[Bogdan Brak] "About Quicktime:
Yes... it does dummy-down to 8Bit when i use TIFF-Sequence as Format. Only Millions of colors."


since the render will only be 8-bit, does it make any difference if the project is set to 8-bit too?


[Bogdan Brak] "My plans are:
- rendering the whole thing out. uncompressed
- rendering the uncompressed file with h.264 for presentation on a FullHD-TV 50".. with best quality."


since you are rendering uncompressed, then compressing to h.264 (which is what i would recommend), are there other formats you can try rendering to, that you can import into the compression utility? if you can render an image sequence and ae crashes, it is easy to have ae pickup where it left off... in the render settings there is a checkbox option for 'skip rendered frames' if you render to the same location (and disable the other option for 'use storage overflow').


[Bogdan Brak] "my problem is (beside the crashes):
- big bendering problems after h.264 compression"


if the problem was rendering from ae to h.264, then there could be problems, particularly in quality. i would think that an 8-bit uncompressed render taken to a compression utility (like ame) that can do a multi-pass encode to h.264 would look nearly as good as a 16-bit render to h.264. so if it is 16-bit that is killing this render, try 8-bit.

Kevin Camp
Senior Designer
KCPQ, KMYQ & KRCW


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Cory Petkovsek
Re: PC crashes while rendering
on Feb 2, 2011 at 9:03:05 pm

In modern operating systems, applications do not have the capability of crashing the operating system unless they can access kernel space. Applications that do access kernel space include drivers, specific viruses/trojans/rootkits (that are designed for kernel space), some antivirus software, and other very specific apps. Nothing Adobe makes.

AE is probably triggering something in your video card driver, or accessing faulty ram as was suggested. You're not going to fix it within AE (though you may find a workaround by limiting memory or turning off mp as was suggested; but it's not fixed).

Therefore, upgrade to the latest video drivers for your card. If that doesn't help, download a bootable memtest86 cd/flash/floppy and run it for 4 hours or 7 passes whichever comes first to rule out (or identify) memory issues. Do whatever hardware diagnostics you can on your video card and harddrive controller and drives. Download some burn-in or stress test software and run many tests on each system independently to see if you can get it to crash. And review your a/v software. Run AE without it on (make sure all a/v services are not running in memory, not just realtime scanning disabled, which can be very difficult without uninstalling).

Read this and do other google searches for that stop error:
http://www.techspot.com/vb/topic85101.html

Cory

--
Cory Petkovsek
Corporate Video


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Bogdan Brak
Re: PC crashes while rendering
on Feb 2, 2011 at 9:50:05 pm

SORRY CORY, YOU ANSWERED WHILE I WROTE MY TALE ;)

IM GOING TO DO THE STRESSTESTS AFTER THIS RENDER IS THROUGH.
I CAN ONLY NOTICE, THAT I HAD NO BLUESCREENS THE LAST TWO WEEKS WHILE RENDERING THE SAME THING OUT. I WAS ONLY CHANGING MY ANIMATION.

IN BETWEEN. I RENDERED SOME QT TIFF SEQUENCES OUT. AE and AME SAID THAT IT WAS "NOT SUCCESSFUL". BUT AND I WORKED WITH THEM. I WATCHED THEM, I COMRESSED THEM WITH H.264. IS IT A BUG?


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Bogdan Brak
Re: PC crashes while rendering
on Feb 2, 2011 at 9:36:53 pm

SORRY..CAPSLOCK ON BECAUSE RENDERING OUT OF AE.

1.IM GOING TO CHECK THE RAMS WHEN RENDERING IS FINNISHED:

2.ACTUALLY MY PROJECT WOULDNT CHANGE IF I GO DOWN TO 8-BIT. I JUST DID 16 TO SEE IF MAYBE THERE WILL BE A LITTLE DIFFRENCE. HARD TO EXPLAIN...

3. IT WOULD TAKE TOO LONG TO EXPLAIN WHY I CHOSE 16-BIT. WHILE READING YOUR REPLY AGAIN I RECOGNIZED THAT IT'S ACTUALLY NONSENSE:
I WAS JUST TRYING TO FIND A WAY TO KILL THE BENDERING EFFECT WHILE USING 16-bIT HOPING THAT IT WOULD CHANGE SOMETHING.

I THINK YOUR RIGHT. MAYBE THE BEST WAY WOULD BE TO PULL IT DOWN TO 8BIT AND RENDER IT AS IMAGE SEQUENCE LIKE I ALREADY TRIED BUT WOTHOUT A QUCIKTIME CONTAINER: TIFF SHOULD BE OK, RIGHT? OR IS THERE A BETTER WAY? I GOT CS5 AND ACTUALLY ALL COMMON FORMATS.

4. THE BANDERING PROBLEM CAME AFTER RENDERING OUT OF AE; OUT OF PREMIERE AND OUT OF MEDIA ENCODER. EVERY PROGRAMM LEAD TO THE SAME PROBLEM.

ARE THERE ANY SETTING RECOMMENDMENTS FOR H.264 THAT PREVENT BENDERING FXS?
I ALREADY MENTIONED:
- ITS 720p AND SHOULD BE SHOWN ON A BIG FULLHD-TV
- USING VLC, QUCIKTIME OR WINDOW MEDIA PLAYER.
- OF COURSE FULLSCREEN.
- AND A NON-HIGH-END PC SHOULD BE ABLE TO PLAY THE MOVIE

READ THE FOLLOWING PART ONLY IF YOU ARE BORED AND YOU HAVE NOTHING TO DO ;)

THE FACT, THAT AT THE END IM GOING TO SHOW IT IN FULLSCREEN LEADS ME TO ANOTHER LITTLE PROBLEM:

FULLSCREEN IS ACTUALLY 1080P.
SO I HAD TWO THOUGHTS

1.IT SHOULD MAKE SENSE TO MAKE A 1080P H.264 FILE OUT OF THE UNCOMPRESSED 720p... OR NOT?

2. IN MY AE-PROJECT I HAVE A LOT OF COMPS IN COMPS INS COMPS... BUT THE ORIGINAL FOOTAGE IS BIG ENOUGH FOR FULLHD. WOULD IT MAKE ANY DIFFRENCE WHEN I PUT MY FINAL 720P COMP INTO A NEW 1080P COMP AND THAN I RENDER THE UNCOMPRESSED FILE OUT...AND FINALLY COMPRESS IT?
IMAGINE THIS:

BIG FOOTAGE INTO COMP -> INTO LITTLE COMP -> INTO 1080-COMP

DOES AE LOOSE INFORMATION IN THESE STEPS AND ONLY BLOW IT UP AT THE END OR DOES IT USE THE BEST SIZE THAT'S POSSIBLE?

THX FOR PATIENCE ;)

CHEERS


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Brian Charles
Re: PC crashes while rendering
on Feb 2, 2011 at 11:00:43 pm

have you checked the Secret Prefs pane and set it to purge memory every x number of frames?



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Bogdan Brak
Re: PC crashes while rendering
on Feb 2, 2011 at 11:13:29 pm

aerm.... i saw the video tutrial about it, but somehow i didnt get it. i mean... i thought it only affects the render PREVIEW and makes things slower.
additionally somehow i disliked that fact that it's a "secret"... i thought it will have a good reason why it's a "secret" menue and decided to not touch it.
but now that you mentioned it, i probably try its


in between... while talking about secrets...i found an easter egg... there's a sheep sound when you click on a specific tableheader while holding shift or conrtol. cant explain it properly. my english is tooooo bad ;) i think it's the top of the effects panel oder project panel.
this kind of secrect do not dislike ;)


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Brian Charles
Re: PC crashes while rendering
on Feb 3, 2011 at 3:57:24 pm

Many render errors result from too little RAM. If After Effects is starved for memory it will crash.

Changing these settings frequently solves this problem. Secret doesn't mean "Don't Use This". Not is it an easter egg, its an important tool to solve render issues such as yours.

I often wonder about Adobe's decision to hide this important feature.



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Bogdan Brak
Re: PC crashes while rendering
on Feb 3, 2011 at 12:01:14 pm

Well...
no stresstest yet. but...yesterday when i was rendering into QT TIFF-Sequence with 4GB (out of 8). The whole stuff was perfectly rendering 10 hours (of 20)and crashed then.
the funny thing about this. i was was working during the whole time (10h) on my PC. in indesign, photoshop... used my tablet..ect. it kept on rendering. thaaaaaaaan... i decided to eat something. so i closed all unused programs and went into to kitchen. 15 or 20 Minutes later. BSOD MEMORY_MANAGEMENT... crap!

so before stresstesting i decided to give it a last try.
i went into the secret menue did the purge-RAM thing every 20 frames.
then i rendered it during the night out as as TIFF-sequence without QT-Container. And I also decided to leave 6,5 GB for AE(instead of 4)

and... hell yeah! i woke up and the sequence was completly through without any errors.
so... as far as i dont get any more crashes, i think i will stay with this settings.

Thanks!

if your are still in the mood:
to finnish my project properly now i actually need some more recommendings. especially about the best h.264 settings.
and if i should make a 1080p out of my 720p

i repost the overview:

- ITS 720p AND SHOULD BE SHOWN ON A BIG FULLHD-TV
- USING VLC, QUCIKTIME OR WINDOW MEDIA PLAYER.
- OF COURSE FULLSCREEN.
- AND A NON-HIGH-END PC SHOULD BE ABLE TO PLAY THE MOVIE

THE FACT, THAT AT THE END IM GOING TO SHOW IT IN FULLSCREEN LEADS ME TO ANOTHER LITTLE PROBLEM:

FULLSCREEN IS ACTUALLY 1080P.
SO I HAD TWO THOUGHTS

1.IT SHOULD MAKE SENSE TO MAKE A 1080P H.264 FILE OUT OF THE UNCOMPRESSED 720p... OR NOT?

2. IN MY AE-PROJECT I HAVE A LOT OF COMPS IN COMPS INS COMPS... BUT THE ORIGINAL FOOTAGE IS BIG ENOUGH FOR FULLHD. WOULD IT MAKE ANY DIFFRENCE WHEN I PUT MY FINAL 720P COMP INTO A NEW 1080P COMP AND THAN I RENDER THE UNCOMPRESSED FILE OUT...AND FINALLY COMPRESS IT?
IMAGINE THIS:

BIG FOOTAGE INTO COMP -> INTO LITTLE COMP -> INTO 1080-COMP

DOES AE LOOSE INFORMATION IN THESE STEPS AND ONLY BLOW IT UP AT THE END OR DOES IT USE THE BEST SIZE THAT'S POSSIBLE?

THX FOR PATIENCE ;)

CHEERS


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Brian Charles
Re: PC crashes while rendering
on Feb 3, 2011 at 7:15:33 pm

If you are suggesting this: 1080p Comp > 720p Comp > 1080p Comp, make sure that collapse transformations is on, otherwise you'll soften the image.

As far as h.264 is concerned, don't output that from AE, use media encoder or compressor if you're on a mac.



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Bogdan Brak
Re: PC crashes while rendering
on Feb 3, 2011 at 7:29:58 pm

"If you are suggesting this: 1080p Comp > 720p Comp > 1080p Comp, make sure that collapse transformations is on, otherwise you'll soften the image"

yes...actually that's what i'm suggesting. but i have a lot of comps of different sizes in between.
Is it then necessary to turn on the collapse button in every single comp or is it enough to do it only in the final comp?

i've read about this collapse-checkbox in the manual but i did'n get how it really work.

when i pressed it somewhere in the middle comps everything got f***** up. when i pressed it at the final comp i couldn't see any obvious diffrence (with my eyes).


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Cory Petkovsek
Re: PC crashes while rendering
on Feb 3, 2011 at 8:23:20 pm

Write down your stop errors and do google searches on them. As I said they are signs of either hardware faults or kernel-space software faults (drivers, messed up os files, kernel-space apps like a/v). They will give you specific information to troubleshoot with. See if you always get the same one, or if they are different. Hopefully you get the same one. If they're always different, you've got big problems.

If you can't fix it with driver upgrades, and nothing conclusive comes up from specific, component by component stress testing (test one thing at a time for a while to see if it crashes), then you have to rule out software. Uninstall your a/v (temporarily, while testing). Learn how to do driver verification and system file verification within windows.

If you find nothing there, then the way to rule out corrupt os files or kernel space appps is to format your drive and install windows. Just install windows and AE or the adobe suite, and anything you need to render these specific jobs. Work with that, with minimal software and see if you can get it to crash. If so, then it's either hardware, or one of the apps you just installed. If you only installed AE, then it's for sure hardware. If you installed some drivers for your tablet and drivers for your console and codecs, it could be one of those. Keep the test case as minimal as possible.

If it's for sure hardware, yet your stress testing didn't identify which subsystem is the problem, then you need to remove hardware and see if it helps. Unplug any unnecessary hardware (tablets, printers, usb anything). Do you have an older video card available? Swap it out and test with AE (the only thing that crashes the os). Or buy a cheap one for $30 to test with. Take out half the ram and test. Put it back and take out the other half and test (keep the same slots).

Cory

--
Cory Petkovsek
Corporate Video


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Bogdan Brak
Re: PC crashes while rendering
on Feb 4, 2011 at 12:07:58 pm

Well guys.
Thanks for your participation in solving my problems.
Because of lack of time I can't do completley hardware test and reinstall the OS. I will do this when the project is done.

But somehow I think it could be the latest Quicktime Player version that messes something up.
In the bgeinning I told you that I'm exporting my TIFF-sequence embed in a QT Container.
After I changed my rendersettings to a pure TIFF-sequence I could render my footage twice without any errors or BSODs.
I was still using multiprocessing an gave 6,5 GB RAM to AE.
I only changed the value in the "secret" menu to 20 or 25.

Maybe finally... is it recommendable to use MP with a 4-core-sytem (3,2GHz) and 8 RAM? Yesterday I read here in the forum that even with 8GB RAM it should NOT be used. Are there any special pros and contras?


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Enea Doku
Re: PC crashes while rendering
on May 25, 2013 at 9:20:01 pm

yes i'm having the same problem


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torsten grünwald
Re: PC crashes while rendering
on Aug 31, 2013 at 6:26:25 pm

Hi folks,
this is works when you have blue screen by rendering:

Briefly, try render audio and video seperatly and do some prefences to clear cache and memory and check your precompostions...
Here an small text- tutorial: http://greenwoodworx-media.blogspot.de/2013/08/after-effects-cs5-cs6-crash-...


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