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Active Shutter Compositing

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Chris GiustiActive Shutter Compositing
by on Nov 15, 2010 at 10:12:56 pm

I was wondering how I could composite footage I take with a 3D program from 2 cameras to display on an active shutter 3D telesision (like the panasonic viera plasma 3d). I have created some example animations with a left and right eye camera, but how will I compile the footage so that the tv's glasses recognizes if it's displaying a right or left eye image?


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Kevin CampRe: Active Shutter Compositing
by on Nov 15, 2010 at 11:28:27 pm

the only effect that i know of that comes bundled with ae, is the 3d glasses effect...

you'll just add the two pieces of footage to a comp, then add the 3d glasses effect, select the footage for the right eye and the left eye, then select how you want to combine the views...

what i don't know is if any of those 'combining' options will work for what you need.

Kevin Camp
Senior Designer
KCPQ, KMYQ & KRCW


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Chris GiustiRe: Active Shutter Compositing
by on Nov 15, 2010 at 11:34:53 pm

The 3D glasses effect doesn't support active shutter technology.. only every other type of 3D, polarized, red/blue red/green etc. The way active shutter works is that one lens on the glasses closes so that you only see the left or right eye image.. the problem is that if I compile video, the glasses need to know which is the left or right eye image otherwise it could open the left eye for the right image or vice versa. Maybe there isn't a solution for AE, I'd probably need a script but this technology is so new I haven't had any luck and I would probably attempt writing one myself but I can't find a solid article on how the glasses determine the image's eye side.


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Kevin CampRe: Active Shutter Compositing
by on Nov 15, 2010 at 11:57:49 pm

i didn't think the old 3d glasses effect would work for the new 3d tv technologies... i would think that somebody has either a plugin, or a stand-alone app that creates this....

as you said, it would be easy enough to create alternating frames from two clips, but you'd only have a 50% chance that matched the glasses.

i take it that somehow the media communicates to the glasses for either left or right frame...?

Kevin Camp
Senior Designer
KCPQ, KMYQ & KRCW


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Paul FitzgibbonRe: Active Shutter Compositing
by on Dec 15, 2010 at 10:00:28 pm

Chris, I only have AE CS and this below is in there, I am going to be trying what you are, have my Panasonic 65" plasma VT25 with BluRay 3D player and three glasses...

"Interlace Upper L Lower R takes the upper (first) field from the Left View layer, and the lower (second) field from the Right View layer, and combines them into a single or a sequence of interlaced frames. Use this option if you want to view the results with polarized or LCD shutter glasses. Select Swap Left-Right to switch fields."

I believe I will have to render 3D animation at 60 fps, I am going to be using Vue Infinite 7.5
Strata 3D has had a stereoscopic camera tool for 10 years now....... may fool with that also.. I do have Lightwave also, but it seems alien to me....

Also thanks to Walter for info.. and all others....


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Chris GiustiRe: Active Shutter Compositing
by on Dec 16, 2010 at 6:58:42 pm

I think all that swap left right does is swap the left and right images being displayed (i.e. the frames you put in left and right), not interlace them. Also, polarized glasses and active shutter glasses are different.


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Paul FitzgibbonRe: Active Shutter Compositing
by on Dec 16, 2010 at 8:56:09 pm

Hi, when I set the convergence to other than zero in AE, fields are visibly created for left and right. Ten years ago I remember creating an alpha field map in PS for the stereo camera in Strata 3D, they eventually released their own... I never really pursued it much at the time though for obvious reasons.. I will be pursuing this stuff now... will post here ...


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Chris WrightRe: Active Shutter Compositing
by on Nov 16, 2010 at 12:42:20 am

what they use is a higher framerate. like 2x24=48fps so each eye gets a full frame. you can do that with ae's strobe plugin.

a quick example of the plugin
http://maltaannon.com/articles/after-effects/slow-motion/

http://technicolorsoftware.hostzi.com/


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Chris GiustiRe: Active Shutter Compositing
by on Nov 16, 2010 at 12:46:38 am

I know that the framerate is doubled, but you should read my previous post.. I need to know how the glasses determine whether the tv is showing a left or right image,
(From Wiki: The glasses are controlled by an infrared, radio frequency, DLP-Link or Bluetooth transmitter that sends a timing signal that allows the glasses to alternately darken over one eye, and then the other, in synchronization with the refresh rate of the screen. Meanwhile, the display alternately displays different perspectives for each eye, using a technique called Alternate-frame sequencing, which achieves the desired effect of each eye seeing only the image intended for it.)

What I really need to know is how do I integrate those codes into the images?


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Chris WrightRe: Active Shutter Compositing
by on Nov 16, 2010 at 1:47:27 am

The frame rate varies depending on the 3D image signal being reproduced. For example, 3D images are reproduced at 120 fps (frames per second) for a 60Hz input signal, and 100 fps for a 50Hz input signal.

http://technicolorsoftware.hostzi.com/


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Chris GiustiRe: Active Shutter Compositing
by on Nov 16, 2010 at 2:13:03 am

Regardless.. I'd need to attach a code on the images for the player to send to the glasses letting them know what frame is being displayed.. otherwise the glasses would just open and close and like the one post says there's a 50%, if that, chance of the glasses flashing at the correct time, I would like them to flash at 100% of the appropriate time. This would require some sort of script or plugin, I was just wondering if there was one already available for AE.

The tv I'm planning on making the animation for is 60hz.. I'm not a compositor, I'm a 3D animator so compiling my rendered images is not my strong suit, but I have rigged my cameras perfectly and I know what frame rate the images must be displayed at already, all I need to know is how to add the signal ids for the player to communicate to the glasses whether or not a left or right eye image is being displayed.


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Walter SoykaRe: Active Shutter Compositing
by on Nov 16, 2010 at 2:57:57 am

[Chris Giusti] "I was wondering how I could composite footage I take with a 3D program from 2 cameras to display on an active shutter 3D telesision (like the panasonic viera plasma 3d). I have created some example animations with a left and right eye camera, but how will I compile the footage so that the tv's glasses recognizes if it's displaying a right or left eye image?"

So a Panasonic Viera 3D plasma is your display -- what's your playback device? Unless you're using something with brand-new HDMI 3D full frame packing, you'll have to use a 3D format that smushes both eyes into a single standard video stream -- interleaved, side-by-side, above-below, or checkerboard.

Side-by-side is very easy to understand -- the left-eye and right-eye channels are each squeezed 50% horizontally and displayed next to each other, so each eye takes up one-half of the standard video frame. In 1920x1080, you'd have two squeezed side-by-side 960x1080 frames.

The monitor will stretch them back out to full width and alternate views with the glasses for you. Above-below works the same way, but it sacrifices vertical resolution instead of horizontal resolution.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Chris GiustiRe: Active Shutter Compositing
by on Nov 16, 2010 at 4:15:09 am

How do I compile it though so that the video isn't just 1 eye? I mean after effects is done in layers so if I have 1 layer as 1 eye and 1 layer as the other, when do I tell after effects which eye is which for the final render? And the player I'll be attempting to use is the DMPBDT100

Maybe this codec would have something to do with it;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiview_Video_Coding
or MPEG 3DAV

Again though, I'm not a compositor really so I don't know about these things. Normally I would just render as H.264


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Walter SoykaRe: Active Shutter Compositing
by on Nov 16, 2010 at 5:48:18 am

[Chris Giusti] "How do I compile it though so that the video isn't just 1 eye? I mean after effects is done in layers so if I have 1 layer as 1 eye and 1 layer as the other, when do I tell after effects which eye is which for the final render?"

With side-by-side and above-below, you have both eyes in the frame all the time. You are feeding two squeezed half-res video signals, one for each eye, to the monitor. It scales them back up and handles the active shutter frame sequencing for you.

[Chris Giusti] "Maybe this codec would have something to do with it;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiview_Video_Coding
or MPEG 3DAV"


If your player supports MVC, you should check out NetBlender DoStudio -- I believe they are shipping an MVC encoder now. Using MVC and and connecting to an HDMI 1.4-capable display means you can use full resolution (instead of throwing out half the horizontal or vertical resolution as above).

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Angela CollsRe: Active Shutter Compositing
by on Apr 28, 2012 at 11:27:36 am

hi,
[Chris Giusti] I was wondering how I could composite footage I take with a 3D program from 2 cameras to display on an active shutter 3D telesision (like the panasonic viera plasma 3d). I have created some example animations with a left and right eye camera, but how will I compile the footage so that the tv's glasses recognizes if it's displaying a right or left eye image?

I was wondering if Chris Guisti was uscessful in making the footage to play correctly on the 3dtv using the active shutter glasses?

I'm currently doing a project at my university and I have been researching for weeks on how to do this but I don't fully understand if it is possible. I would greatly appreciate anyone's advice regarding how I can put 2x 2d footage using footage from the left and footage from the right eye and to compile to allow for 3d footage which is visible though the active shutter glasses on the 3dtv?


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Paul FitzgibbonRe: Active Shutter Compositing
by on Apr 28, 2012 at 4:48:03 pm

Hello, you need to place both animations in AE Comp either "side by side" or "over and under" squashing them then either horizontally or vertically to fit 1920x1080 and then render.
Your 3D TV then needs to be set to side by side or over and under.
This link will help, I am last comment at bottom.
http://blog.cunnington.co.za/2010/11/16/stereo-pairs-and-3d-video-storage/


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Chris GiustiRe: Active Shutter Compositing
by on Apr 29, 2012 at 6:18:42 pm

Yes, the way I made it work was using the "SBS" (side-by-side) way, basically you make your composition for each eye and then create a new project that's twice the width and lay your video sequences down side by side. Then, you read up on how your hardware can be manually switched over to display the Side-By-Side footage in 3D and the hardware should alternate the proper images for each eye on it's own. Depending on the hardware you may need the 3D in a format that it supports (up/down, SBS, 3D encoded, auto, etc.). Basically all that happens is that it knows the left half is the left and the right half is the right, and communicates with the glasses when to shut each eye.. or with polarized lenses, how to sync the footage. At any rate, I did not find very inexpensive means to do this.. the hardware was a Panasonic G30 I believe, and the button to change the 3D input method was found the the remote.

Good luck.


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Angela CollsRe: Active Shutter Compositing
by on Apr 29, 2012 at 8:54:59 pm

I would like to thank both Paul Fitzgibbon and Chris Giusti for your input and very quick response, I will be putting it to the test within the next few weeks and hope I can get it to work.

Again thanks very much for the advice.


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