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Airto Jackson
Fly Over
on Oct 21, 2010 at 8:31:48 pm

How would I go about filming a person doing a cartwheel over a 58 Impala length-wise without using wire work? Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thank you.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Fly Over
on Oct 21, 2010 at 9:35:44 pm

WITHOUT wire work? Not really.

In my mind's eye I see the difference between doing a cartwheel on the ground and doing one on a raised surface. On the raised surface, there's leaping and a lot less bending of the torso to get the hands planted AND get the body's center of gravity to the point where it will go over the planted hands.

Then there's the length of a '58 Impala, which implies a REALLY fast run up, a long leap, planting the hands on the roof, and the body following through over a long distance to land gracefully on the other end.

Personally, I would have gone with a '57 Bel-Air, but that's just a difference in taste: cooler-looking fins, y'know.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Michael Szalapski
Re: Fly Over
on Oct 21, 2010 at 10:20:40 pm

Hire a talented stunt man and make sure he's got good insurance and you get liability waivers?

- The Great Szalam
(The 'Great' stands for 'Not So Great, in fact, Extremely Humble')

No trees were harmed in the creation of this message, but several thousand electrons were mildly inconvenienced.


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Gary Hazen
Re: Fly Over
on Oct 21, 2010 at 10:40:27 pm

Comedy or Drama?


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Airto Jackson
Re: Fly Over
on Oct 22, 2010 at 6:48:19 am

Its a comedy and he's only going to be in the air doing the cartwheel. not actually touching the car or anything. It's as if he's been hit and he is flying over the car with his feet above his head.

now is the time


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Michael Szalapski
Re: Fly Over
on Oct 22, 2010 at 1:28:33 pm

I think you're going to need some manner of dangling your talent. However, it doesn't have to be a very complicated setup. In fact, you could probably do it with some ropes. Hang the person off of whatever in front of a green screen and have him fake tumbling around, then you can flip him around in post. Just try to make sure your lighting's not terribly directional. It may not quite look right, but it'd be close.
You may need to rotoscope a bit around the ropes (unless you paint them green).

Or, get a trampoline and a pool (or foam pit) and have them do flipping off the trampoline into it. You could put up a green screen behind them for it or do rotoscoping.

Here are some rotoscoping resources.

- The Great Szalam
(The 'Great' stands for 'Not So Great, in fact, Extremely Humble')

No trees were harmed in the creation of this message, but several thousand electrons were mildly inconvenienced.


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Airto Jackson
Re: Fly Over
on Oct 22, 2010 at 5:23:52 pm

Thanks for the responses. I think the trampoline may be the best bet. I can get him to go vertical and still have the side to side motion. Then just composite it. Are there any foreseeable problems for keying if I'm shooting at a faster frame rate so I can slow it down in post?

now is the time


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Fly Over
on Oct 22, 2010 at 6:02:48 pm

[Airto Jackson] "Are there any foreseeable problems for keying if I'm shooting at a faster frame rate so I can slow it down in post?"

Actually, a faster frame rate will work to your advantage: there's less motion blur, which can make keying tough.

However, your choice of cameras becomes crucial in getting a good key.

You need to shoot ENTIRE FRAMES, and not progressive segmented frames, which is what almost all cameras deliver at 1080. Thus, you'll need to choose a camera that can shoot 720p 59.94, aka 720p60. If conform the frame rate to 29.97, the motion is twice as slow as normal. If you conform to 23.976, it's 2 1/2 times slower than normal. If you have DEEP pockets, you can get a 1080 camera that shoots progressive scan at 59.94.... but they ain't cheap to buy or rent.

A chroma key is above all a COLOR key, so you need accurate color resolution. You'd think most cameras do that automatically, most do, but the recording process can eviscerate that color resolution.

The worst offender is HDV, and I include Sony XDCams in this category. Next best are almost any other kind of camera. At my station, we shoot our chroma keys on humble Panasonic HVX 200's with moderate (4-2-2) color resolution, and we get fine keys. The highest color resolution cameras on the list are ones that shoot at what's known as 4-4-4 color resolution, there are very few of them, and again, they carry high price tags.

So choose wisely. Remember what happened to the guy who chose the wrong Holy Grail in the Indiana Jones movie.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Airto Jackson
Re: Fly Over
on Oct 22, 2010 at 6:34:52 pm

Dave,
You bring up a very good point. I'm however not as deep pocketed as I would prefer so I'm going to be trying to do this on a 60D. Recently released by Canon. If you know of any DSLR tricks of the trade I'd be more than happy to hear them as this is my first adventure out with these little cameras. To my knowledge they don't meet the specification you mentioned. However my output source will be no bigger than an average television, computer monitor so while the keying may be not as clean, the smaller size should lend itself to obscuring that fact some. Fingers crossed.

Thanks.

now is the time


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Fly Over
on Oct 22, 2010 at 6:54:51 pm

Hmmm... color resolution should be okay, the frame rate's going be an issue. If you're running any version of AE other than version 10, you'll also want to transcode the footage to a high-quality codec.

If you're cutting on FCP, you'd have to convert the footage to ProRes 422 anyway.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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