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Open gl in After Effects

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Thomas BradleyOpen gl in After Effects
by on Oct 15, 2010 at 8:02:09 pm

Hello,
I am an average computer user with basic skills in After effects, I am an advanced Photoshop user though.

I have just acquired a new computer, it is the:
Acer Aspire Z5700
it has integrated HD graphics from an Intel Core i3 CPU, it supports Open GL 2.1 and shader version 4.

I have read on adobes web site that this is not supported in After Effects but is in Photoshop.

So my question is this...

What will I lose by not having open GL in After Effects?
Will I still be able to create shadows form lights for example?

I have done some test projects and have found no difference yet as such, I can still render OK and have motion blur and 3D etc etc,

also if I enable open gl rendering at time of rendering for final output will it use my open gl then?

I have read on your forums, a few times, that it is best NOT to use open gl as it disables multi processing, well I know it does that and when I upgrade to 8 gig form 4 I will also multi process ( I have four cores and after effects needs 2 gig a core to do this)
so is it best not to have any way?

I know that any thing I bring in that is 3D will show OK and take advantage of open gl and IO have done some tests with 3D in PS and also with some demo games ( I am not a games player).

Or is there some thing I can do albeit buying a dedicated card for my comp, which is easier said that done being as I cant find any info on what or where concerning cards for this machine.

any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

PJ


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Kevin CampRe: Open gl in After Effects
by on Oct 15, 2010 at 11:37:09 pm

you won't have any problems running ae without an ae-opengl certified card.

opengl in ae is really just intended to help speed up previews for interactions. it's not used for rendering, so you should find any limitations... as you've probably read, many users (myself included) just disable opengl for previews all together due to other issues it can create.

a separate graphics card (if it has pci slots) may give you some benefit though... i believe the integrated intel gpu shares ram with the cpu, so some of your ram will probably be lost to the gpu (probably only 256mb, maybe up to 512mb).

more ram would be nice, but you can operate with 4gb, just don't enable multiprocessing. if you do want to get more ram, make sure you also have a 64-bit operating system, or the system will not use more than 4gb.

Kevin Camp
Senior Designer
KCPQ, KMYQ & KRCW


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Joey BurnhamRe: Open gl in After Effects
by on Oct 16, 2010 at 12:12:41 am

Also 8 gigs of RAM isn't enough really for mutiprocessing anyway. It's fine for working though. At least that's our case here. Takes longer to fire up those cores than the initial render would take anyway.
Joey


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Dave LaRondeRe: Open gl in After Effects
by on Oct 16, 2010 at 12:41:14 am

As the other folks have said, if you don't have Open GL capability for AE it's no loss. In fact, you're probably better off just not using it.

RAM, however, is a very big deal in AE. A huge deal. The more you've got, the better off you are.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Thomas BradleyRe: Open gl in After Effects
by on Oct 16, 2010 at 10:21:27 am

Thankyou all for your response,

Unfortunately I cant go higher than 8 gig but I will be using 8 gig shortly.

I am glad to hear that not using Open GL will not effect my work-flow.

Yes I do have multiprocessing disabled, in fact it wont enable any way with just 4 gig on 4 cores, I read on the After Effects help pages that each core requires 2 gig of ram before it will enable.

I will experiment when I goto 8 gig with multi processing but I do take on board the comment that it should be left off.

I am looking into whether or not I can add a card so that it frees up my system ram.

I do feel more at ease now so thanks,

Lastly I would add that after studying this problem for nearly a week and posting on lots of forums this is the best response so far!

Thanks again.

Tom.

PS: Is there a way to get AE to use more than the 2.2 gig out of 4 that it is using? I am not bale to increase it in preferences and i know my background services can run on a gig so would like to increase to 3 if possible before I go up to 8 gig in a few weeks.

Tom.


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Todd KoprivaRe: Open gl in After Effects
by on Oct 16, 2010 at 9:27:48 pm

> I read on the After Effects help pages that each core requires 2 gig of ram before it will enable.


That's not what the Help pages say. They _recommend_ starting with 2GB per core.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
Technical Support for professional video software
After Effects Help & Support
Premiere Pro Help & Support
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Thomas BradleyRe: Open gl in After Effects
by on Oct 17, 2010 at 10:43:49 am

is that not what I said?

if you are referring to the "starting with" part yes I agree that is what it says.

I have 2 cores but 4 threads so AE does read it as 4 cores and as i have now only 4 gig of ram it will not use multi processing, so as I said I can go up to 8 gig in my computer and when I do each core will have the minimum amount which is 2 gig per core, or in the help pages words "starting with" amount, which is the same as minimum as I have explained it will not work with less than that.

Thankyou.


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Thomas BradleyRe: Open gl in After Effects
by on Oct 18, 2010 at 11:30:09 am

OK after reading the links you gave me on the other similar topic I understand it better now.
I am wrong,
Todd you are completely right that it was it says.

So am I right in thinking of it like this:

I have 4 gig of ram installed at the moment.
I have 4 cores ( 2 physical and to virtual) After Effects reads it as 4 and list 4 in preferences.

After Effects leaves at least 1.5 gig of ram for other applications and this amount cant go lower (well not using settings in preferences from my experience)

The minimum setting in after effects preferences for multi processing is .75gig ram per process.
4 cores so 4x.75=3 gig which is more than AE has left after it allows 1.5 minimum to other apps. So multi process wont work.
Is that right?

My old computer had just 2 cores and 4 gig of ram and I could get multi processing to work only if I set background process ram allocation to .75 gig of ram )maybe as high as 1 gig) as I did not have enough to go higher.

Now i have same amount of ram but 4 cores I can not get it to work, I get the option to turn it on but I can not get it to set an amount of cores that will be used, it stays on 0 no matter how I tweak then settings.

Maybe there is a way to allow AE to use more ram than the system allows but I do not know, would be nice to find out.

I know my system could run on a gig of ram so I could have 3 for AE and then 4 cores and .75 could get multi processing to work perhaps.

I apologize again for my Mistake Todd.

Tom


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Todd KoprivaRe: Open gl in After Effects
by on Oct 18, 2010 at 9:33:59 pm

So am I right in thinking of it like this:

I have 4 gig of ram installed at the moment.
I have 4 cores ( 2 physical and to virtual) After Effects reads it as 4 and list 4 in preferences.

After Effects leaves at least 1.5 gig of ram for other applications and this amount cant go lower (well not using settings in preferences from my experience)

The minimum setting in after effects preferences for multi processing is .75gig ram per process.
4 cores so 4x.75=3 gig which is more than AE has left after it allows 1.5 minimum to other apps. So multi process wont work.
Is that right?


4GB - 1.5GB for other software leaves 2.5GB for After Effects.

If you have the background processes set to use 0.75GB, then the foreground process first takes 1.2x that, which is 0.9GB.

That leaves 1.6GB, which is enough for 2 background processes, so Render Multiple Frames Simultaneously multiprocessing can work. Minimally, but it'll work.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
Technical Support for professional video software
After Effects Help & Support
Premiere Pro Help & Support
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Thomas BradleyRe: Open gl in After Effects
by on Oct 19, 2010 at 9:56:04 am

right,
so mine is not working,
AE is telling me that I have 3.8 GB of ram, even though I have 4 gigs,
so could this be why?

that takes your calculation down to 1.4 sop enough for 1 process yes?

so why am I not being allowed to use it?

Like I said I get the option to turn it on and change settings but no matter what settings I use I can not get it to change from 0, 0 being the number that relates to cores that will be used.

Ive just tried CS3 and that as you now does not let you change settings but works things out for its self, and in there it IS saying that 1 additional processor will be used which make sense from he calculations above.

How ever CS5 is not saying any additional cores/processors will be used.

Tom


PS: thanks for taking time to help me on this. If needed I can add some screen shots if allowed.


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Thomas BradleyRe: Open gl in After Effects
by on Oct 19, 2010 at 10:16:05 am

sorry for the double post but I think this might help.

When I run AE CS5 I have only one instant of After FX.exe in task manger,
so I am presuming that multi processing is not working, also it says as much in p[references.
How ever when I run AE CS3 I have3 instances of After FX.exe in task manager which would lead me to think there are 2 additional cores working even though preferences are saying 1 additional cpu being used.

dont know if this helps make sense of what is happening in cs5/3 with me?

T


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Todd KoprivaRe: Open gl in After Effects
by on Oct 19, 2010 at 1:45:23 pm

After Effects CS3 would fire up the background processes with as little as 0.5GB available per background process.

If you only have 3.8GB of RAM, then you really shouldn't be trying to use Render Multiple Frames Simultaneously multiprocessing at all.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
Technical Support for professional video software
After Effects Help & Support
Premiere Pro Help & Support
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Dave LaRondeRe: Open gl in After Effects
by on Oct 19, 2010 at 2:24:58 pm

To reinforce what Todd writes, I'll give you a real-life example: me.

At work, I have an 8-core Mac Pro with 8 GB RAM. I don't even THINK about using multiprocessing because I don't have enough memory to make it really fast and really useful. I COULD use it, but it would only bog things down.

I've ordered a new machine for home, and it will be used primarily for AE work. Again, 8 cores... only the home machine will have 24 GB on it, which is fine for multiprocessing.

AE is the ultimate RAM hog.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Thomas BradleyRe: Open gl in After Effects
by on Oct 19, 2010 at 2:47:28 pm

Yes after having this discussion and also reading some of your articles (Todd) I think the same so it is turned off!

When my new memory comes in a few days and i have 8 gig I will allow maybe 2 cores or even just one additional core for MP and give it 1.5/2.0 of memory form what I have been reading this should suffice.
but that is open for change also, I am learning as I go here, lol.

I think the problem with my machine at the moment having just 4 gigs is that I have Intel HD Graphics which are integrated and take a minimum of 128MB (even if not using it it is assigned) of system ram for that purpose, so AE will only see 3.8.

Am I right in reading that AE will only use MP if 2 or more cores can be used?

Thanks for all your help I have learnt a lot.

Tom.


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Dave LaRondeRe: Open gl in After Effects
by on Oct 19, 2010 at 2:58:52 pm

Sorry, but I wouldn't use multiprocessing with 8 GB. In fact, I DON'T use multiprocessing, and I have 8 GB.

AE can use incredible amounts of RAM, and you don't seem to have realized it yet.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Thomas BradleyRe: Open gl in After Effects
by on Oct 19, 2010 at 3:28:25 pm

well I have always known that.

What I am starting to learn is the idea of MP and calculations between Ram for MP and Front end needed ram, then consider BG applications also.

Like said I have learnt a lot from this topic and my plans for the future are open for change, I said as much.

I shall experiment myself when the time arrives.

Thanks.

T


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Dave LaRondeRe: Open gl in After Effects
by on Oct 19, 2010 at 3:32:48 pm

Good luck with your testing! I'm glad you have the patience for such things... I don't.

I'd just as soon have simple-to-follow rules of thumb, forsaking exotic settings which may indeed work better, but under only certain circumstances. I'm all for simple.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Thomas BradleyRe: Open gl in After Effects
by on Oct 19, 2010 at 4:02:29 pm

Thanks,
I found a nice guide of Todd's that will help.

I like to try and get the most out of what I have plus I all for learning new things and do tend to get real deep with them specially if it is a problem for me.

I have seen others advise not to use MP with only 8 Gig but that was when having more than 4 cores.
So I think it will probably be better for me to just test and try and you might be right Dave and I might find it better not to use MP.

Cheers again,

T


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Joey BurnhamRe: Open gl in After Effects
by on Oct 19, 2010 at 4:10:48 pm

Jesus, leave it OFF unless you have sufficient RAM. What's the problem?
Joey


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Dave LaRondeRe: Open gl in After Effects
by on Oct 19, 2010 at 4:16:41 pm

It's a journey of discovery for this gent. It's not like he's going to break anything.

He'll get frustrated after a fashion, but break stuff? Nah......

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Thomas BradleyRe: Open gl in After Effects
by on Oct 19, 2010 at 5:18:04 pm

Joey Burnham,
What you going on about mate,
Im a polite person but dont take the piss!

I am new to AE and trying to learn stuff here which I have and said as much.

Dont bother come into my topics with your stupid crap, I wouldn't do it yours!

I am not some fool who will just do what people tell me to do, like leave my head in the oven coz some geezer on a forum told me to, I like to learn the whys and hows of some thing and find things out for my self, that is called intelligence something you might be lacking in!

this kinda thing really does annoy me,
I run my own Photoshop forum and if some one dared to speak to another member like this he would be sorted out!


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Joey BurnhamRe: Open gl in After Effects
by on Oct 20, 2010 at 12:00:26 am

My apologies, really. I was in a VERY bad mood this morning as you can tell. Work is getting to me.
Anyways, run some tests. 8 gigs will be better than 4 but I still would urge you to keep MP off unless you get more RAM.
Best and sorry,
Joey


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Thomas BradleyRe: Open gl in After Effects
by on Oct 20, 2010 at 12:15:14 pm

Joey,
Thats OK,
thanks for the apology,
I might of over reacted also, just felt it was a bit of a harsh thing to say to me, specially when I am learning here.

Any way, matter closed now.

Unfortunately I cant go above 8 gig but AE is a hobby only and not part of my work so I hope to be OK, after reading lots on this subject your probably right about leaving off but yeah I will run some tests just to find out what the difference are.

cheers,

T


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